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04/20/2006 06:07:04 AM · #26 |
Sometimes when comments come off as being rude its simply a language barrier/translation problem. Some languages just dont translate kindly to english and whats considered kind in one language will come off as rude in another.
I once got a comment that i felt was rude,blunt and very unhelpful and I PMed the user after the challenge to have them explain thier comment better so i could understand it better.Im sure the first email I came off as angry but he was very willing to explain what his comment meant and after several emails I learned to appriciate his view on photography. His comments were known then to be very blunt and only negitive but since our "chat" his commenting style has changed for the better.Now when i get a comment from him I take it to heart and really look at my photo. Sometimes all it takes is a PM to get things all sorted out.
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04/20/2006 06:17:09 AM · #27 |
I would rather have "rude" and true than nice and way off the mark...like "I wish this picture wasnt so out of focus -4 " when it is so sharp you can count hairs.
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04/20/2006 06:51:50 AM · #28 |
| i don't mean to be rude, but sometimes you can't sugar coat the truth. when commenting while voting, i spend more time commenting on bottom-end images than anything else, and for what? some people bomb out so badly that they never enter another challenge--did i help them? some people don't want anything but platitudes--did i help them? some people take the all the suggestions and figure out how to not only make better images, but score well at dpc. that makes it worth the trouble. |
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04/20/2006 06:52:44 AM · #29 |
I feel that if a person is of such a high caliber they can say something like "if there was a 0 then this picture would deserve it" should also be wise enough to leave an explanation as to WHY it is in his 0 category. these so called GODS of DPC that issue their 0s and their 1s without explanation are basically merchant bankers (that is cockney rhyming slang for something else.. work it out). I personally do not care if I get a comment that is abusive to my picture but I would go totaly mad if someone was to slander my model because personal attacks get me crazy.
Go ahead, slag off my work I care not, give me all the 1s and 0s you feel like doing and I shall laugh. We cannot demand they explain we cannot stop them from issuing low scores, we cannot stop them leaving offensive comments about ones work but if the comment is a personal slander then simply report it and the SC will remove the comment and the commenters account too I would hope.
I used to get very defensive about my work when I first joined but to be honest, now I dont give a fryer Tuck (more rhyming slang) about them or their vote/comment.. I say to those "DO YA WORSE" give me what ever you like.
This is an online challenge site, it does not mean the end of the world if you get trolled.. I have never won a ribbon finnished top 10 once in over 80 challenges. yes I SUCK!! ..... BUT:
Im working for a very nice magazine in Japan and get paid rather well too.
I have taken pictures and portraits of people and they have been so touched it made them cry.
I have done work for people for nothing because they cannot afford to pay
My children LOVE my work.
So.... who cares what a few trolls think.
PHEW!!! sorry rant over.
edit to add - this of cause does not include CONSTRUCTIVE comments just the rude and useless ones... like mentioned above. the majority of my comments i recieve are very helpfull.
Message edited by author 2006-04-20 07:01:15.
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04/20/2006 07:14:57 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
i don't mean to be rude, but sometimes you can't sugar coat the truth. |
Skip,
I'm not sure anyone is advocating "sugar coating the truth" here; a comment like "if there was a 0 then this picture would deserve it" doesn't even remotely pass as a "truth" IMO. It's just plain an arrogant and rude way of making the point that the commenter thinks the image stinks.
It's like the difference between saying to someone you don't agree with "You're full of sh*t, you retard!" vs "I totally disagree with what you're saying, sir."
In a place like this I don't think comments of that type are even remotely excusable, sorry...
R.
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04/20/2006 07:34:13 AM · #31 |
| Melissa, I have just commented to your "resurrection" photograph. I hope you find that this comment was constructive. |
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04/20/2006 07:38:32 AM · #32 |
| the comment that was being referred to was made by a kid. I think, but it's only my opinion, that he was trying to be rude. If you check his comments, he's left only praise or rude remarks. When you get comments like this, I think it's best to check the person out first to get a sense of where they're coming from. To some kids, this is just a way to be cool. |
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04/20/2006 07:49:16 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by skiprow:
i don't mean to be rude, but sometimes you can't sugar coat the truth. |
Skip,
I'm not sure anyone is advocating "sugar coating the truth" here; a comment like "if there was a 0 then this picture would deserve it" doesn't even remotely pass as a "truth" IMO. It's just plain an arrogant and rude way of making the point that the commenter thinks the image stinks.
It's like the difference between saying to someone you don't agree with "You're full of sh*t, you retard!" vs "I totally disagree with what you're saying, sir."
In a place like this I don't think comments of that type are even remotely excusable, sorry...
R. |
some people don't think shorts and docksiders are appropriate in church, either, when worn 80 miles inland in march ;-) |
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04/20/2006 07:57:32 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
I like R.Heinlein's take on rudeness: if someone is rude to you, beat the crap out of them until they oppologise.
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LOL. I welcome someone to punch me in the face for something as innocent as a comment about a photograph.
I didn't make that particular comment, nor would I, but I can see why someone would. There are some images I come across which are quite obviously taken with zero effort at all, as if they just went outside and took a quick snapshot of the first thing they saw and came up with a title that vaguely linked it to the challenge. Would a nasty comment motivate them to do better next time? Probably, and I fail to see how that's a bad thing. |
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04/20/2006 09:44:16 AM · #35 |
Hmmm, there was a picture in the color portrait challenge that I almost left the comment "If there was an 11, I would give it."
But I didn't. Good thing. Guess that would have been rude?
Folks, people communicate in so many different ways it is not funny. The only thing I see the threads like this do is make people do one of two things, 1) Not comment any more or 2) Only say nice things.
Then we get countless threads complaining about that. I, for one, used to try to comment on all the 3's (if any) 4's and 5's in a challenge. However, after watching person after person get lamblasted in the forums I have cut down almost totally. I did leave some comments in the CP challenge, but the whole time I was trying to avoid being "rude" and balance the bad with the good. But, sometimes, I honestly cannont think of anything that redeems the photograph to me. So, rather than risk offending the photog, I skip it and go on. Unfortunately, it may the picture of someone who truly wants me to comment, but I have no way of knowing that.
It is a COMMENT box, not a CRITIQUE box. So many times I think we confuse the two. Yes, it is wonderful when we get a paragraph or two telling us in delicate terms what would improve the picture. But, in all honestly, "nice shot" or "I don't like it" or "this sucks" is equally valid. It is all opinion, whether it says IMO, IMHO, I think, or what have you. And we all know what opinions are like.
If you get a comment that you think is rude, but does not violate the ToS, move on. You are only hurting yourself by getting worked up about it. If it violates the ToS, please report it.
Rudeness is, well, just downright rude, but on the Internet, where all we have are little black dots arranged in letters, with no inflections of voice or body language, we have to try to assume the best intentions. Again, what one person views as rude, someone else views as honest. |
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04/20/2006 09:58:38 AM · #36 |
Face it. People doiling out 1s and 2s to photos that are inarguably (sp) worthy of no less than a 5 are exercising their God complexes. It's obviously a way for them to have control and power over something when maybe their lives are out of control. It is probably not personal and shouldn't be looked at that way. I think we are all falling prey to those low votes during challenges, especially any that they feel might be a threat to their entry.
Same goes with the comments. Short snippy little thoughtless comments are commonplace and all you can do is reply to the commenter asking for a more in-depth review or just don't mark it helpful. I wish you could hide rude comments though. Some of the ones in my portfolio really bug me and some of the commenters I have contacted about them and they have refused to edit them. What can you do? Consider the source and move forward with your photography. |
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04/20/2006 10:04:46 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Hmmm, there was a picture in the color portrait challenge that I almost left the comment "If there was an 11, I would give it."
But I didn't. Good thing. Guess that would have been rude?
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I hope it was mine. ;-) |
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04/20/2006 10:10:11 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by kdsprog:
the comment that was being referred to was made by a kid. I think, but it's only my opinion, that he was trying to be rude. If you check his comments, he's left only praise or rude remarks. When you get comments like this, I think it's best to check the person out first to get a sense of where they're coming from. To some kids, this is just a way to be cool. |
Then, it's up to the grown-ups to correct the kid, or he'll still be doing stuff like that when he's a grown-up. I got a semi-rude comment on Aprodite during the square challenge, but I've gotten so many other comments from site members I actually respect telling me how much they like the picture, how I was robbed in the final score, etc that I just don't pay that one person attention.
Over at photosig I got a critique that was a thumbs down, and almost word for word the exact opposite of what the person before him (who gave it a 2 thumbs up) had said. So, I rated his critique as not helpful, and he got mad!!! Now, I don't like the way they do their rating system, and I think they have a lot more people over there that are deliberately harsh than we do here. It's highly unlikely to I'll renew my membership when it expires. But, you all are stuck with me. ;)
Some people are just jerks. Don't take it to heart....especially if you receive other comments that are positive.
Message edited by author 2006-04-20 10:12:54. |
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04/20/2006 11:25:08 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Hmmm, there was a picture in the color portrait challenge that I almost left the comment "If there was an 11, I would give it."
But I didn't. Good thing. Guess that would have been rude?
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karmat, I totally understand the gist of your post and do agree, somewhat, with most of it. However, the part above strikes me a bit funny. Is this a bit tongue in cheek or are you actually comparing the two as equal?
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04/20/2006 11:32:23 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:
Over at photosig I got a critique that was a thumbs down, and almost word for word the exact opposite of what the person before him (who gave it a 2 thumbs up) had said. So, I rated his critique as not helpful, and he got mad!!! |
Now therein lies the problem that I think the SC are trying to avoid. First off let me say that I agree that harshness abounds there. It starts at the top and just trickles down. Now here's where I have a dilemma with your post above. You marked the TD critique unhelpful because it was the exact opposite of the first critique - which happened to be a 2 TU. If the TD critique was written first, would you have marked the 2TU critique unhelpful as it would've been the total opposite of what the first critic saw?
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04/20/2006 12:05:24 PM · #41 |
In the Portrait challenge, there are 5 photos I dislike. 3 of those are personal taste issues - I'm sure that the photographer meant them to look the way they look and is happy with them.
Then there are two that are very unfortunate accidents. I truly feel sorry for the models and the photographer. I would like to help them, but I don't know how to say what I actually feel about the photos without probably upsetting someone.
If I seriously sugar coat my feedback, my message won't come across strongly enough and they're likely to keep doing the same thing, thinking the first effort did well enough and received gentle critiques.
If I tell the truth, it would be perceived as harsh and negative.
So now what? My answer was the coward's way out - I didn't comment at all.
I feel bad that I didn't, but I just don't know how to comment on such images since so often feedback is perceived as rude as soon as it isn't the accolades we'd all like to read. |
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04/20/2006 01:12:56 PM · #42 |
Can we really know whether something is accidental or intentional?
In general, it is hard to believe that there is much backlash for *balanced* comments. I don't understand why some people make absolute decrees. Sure there are different levels of expertise but we are all fallible.
Sharp slaps of words left on a photo may make the commenter feel like they are being honest, or like they have 'done their job'. But if the goal is to get through to the photographer, to help the photographer, then respectful, considerate, thoughtful comments are likely to have a greater impact.... make the photographer more permeable to the advice. Or at least induce less resentment of the commenter.
Just my thoughts on this.
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04/20/2006 01:22:16 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by CalliopeKel:
Face it. People doiling out 1s and 2s to photos that are inarguably (sp) worthy of no less than a 5 are exercising their God complexes. |
Huh? If they're rating it 1 and 2, obviously it's not 'inarguably' worthy of less than a 5. If you look on the scale, '1' is next to "Bad". What's wrong with declaring an image a bad image? Why should every picture automatically deserve a 5 (average) out of principle? If every picture deserves from a 5 to a 10, why not just redo the rating system as 5 6 7 8 9 10? Some images just quite frankly are not good images, or even average ones. |
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04/20/2006 01:24:00 PM · #44 |
Yea, I got that comment! IT came from a kid! That's what I mean about rudeness. Unfortunately, it isn't jsut the 'kids' doing it.
Originally posted by Beetle:
Originally posted by dudephil:
What do you guys think of this comment?
If there was a 0 rating, this would surely deserve it.
Think that's rude? |
Painfully honest, yes. Rude, no.
Edited to add: If I got that kind of comment, I would at first call him/her a few choice names (to myself). After a while, I'd calm down and probably realize that I deserved the comment.
After all....... my lousy photo was being commented on, not ME. |
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04/20/2006 01:25:19 PM · #45 |
| HArdly. Why make a comment like this, whether it's deserving or not? |
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04/20/2006 01:37:49 PM · #46 |
Oh my goodness .... I just checked up on the comment and the kid who made it.
Boy, he sure has quite an attitude, that comment was no accident that happened to come out sounding harsher than it was intended to be.
I very much believe in giving the benefit of the doubt - it is so easy to misinterpret typed words - but in this case.... whoa!
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04/20/2006 02:16:58 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
Oh my goodness .... I just checked up on the comment and the kid who made it.
Boy, he sure has quite an attitude, that comment was no accident that happened to come out sounding harsher than it was intended to be.
I very much believe in giving the benefit of the doubt - it is so easy to misinterpret typed words - but in this case.... whoa! |
If it's who I think it is, I found most of his comments actually pretty funny, like being highly sarcastic is his intent. This site is much more reserved than others I've seen on the Internet, so I guess there's differing standards here on what is rude and what isn't. Personally, I haven't seen anything that would bother me in the slightest.
Although I must ask, do the kids on the site have access to the nude photography? That must be motivation in itself! |
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04/20/2006 02:21:39 PM · #48 |
I actually like his comments. I laughed my butt off reading them. People need to be less sensitive and not take comments so personal. I hope he comments on some of my photos!
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04/20/2006 02:23:31 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by MrXpress:
Originally posted by Beetle:
Oh my goodness .... I just checked up on the comment and the kid who made it.
Boy, he sure has quite an attitude, that comment was no accident that happened to come out sounding harsher than it was intended to be.
I very much believe in giving the benefit of the doubt - it is so easy to misinterpret typed words - but in this case.... whoa! |
If it's who I think it is, I found most of his comments actually pretty funny, like being highly sarcastic is his intent. This site is much more reserved than others I've seen on the Internet, so I guess there's differing standards here on what is rude and what isn't. Personally, I haven't seen anything that would bother me in the slightest.
Although I must ask, do the kids on the site have access to the nude photography? That must be motivation in itself! |
His/her average votes cast is in the twos. That fact, along with the comments s/he makes, would make me consider him/her to be rude in general. Maybe it's unfair for me to stereotype but I just calls'em like I sees'em.
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04/20/2006 02:35:49 PM · #50 |
| that's what I said earlier... it seems he's tryingto be rude. A lot of kids think it makes them seem cool or funny. He has this comment that he left on someone's photo A bleeding, disembowled lung would really spice up the background. Now, I really do find that rude. And as dudephil noted, his voting record speaks for itself. |
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