20d sharpness @ 100% - DPChallenge Forums

04/12/2006 12:55:10 PM · #1

Hi everyone,

I have been looking through some of my photos taken with ISO200 setting, I thus far have not been happy with the sharpness of my photos when looking at them at 100% enlargement. I look at them at 50% and there ok not the greatest but livable. I know an 11x14 is some where around 25% but why is it that the 20d photos are not clear at 100%??? Any one that can shed a bit of light on this, its appreciated.

*I do use a tripod when I shot, but not a release. Is it possible that it is mirror slap?

Thanks
Rich

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/12/2006 12:55:54 PM · #2

What lens are you using?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/12/2006 01:02:28 PM · #3

I am using a canon 75-300mm telephoto f4- f5.6 USM Ultrasonic lens. For the picture I am inquiring about

Thanks
Rich

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

04/12/2006 01:04:37 PM · #4

Sharpness is going to rely much more on the lens than the body. The body will be responsible for noise.

What were your settings (shutter and aperture) and were you at the extreme of the zoom?

nephoto

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/12/2006 01:06:54 PM · #5

Post an example of the picture you are referring to at a 100% crop and we will be able to give you a much better explanation for whats happening, or not happening.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/12/2006 01:09:06 PM · #6

I am at 300mm, f5.6 and the shutter speed was 1/250. I am noticing my 300mm isnt a very good lens as I search back through my photos.

Thanks Rich

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

04/12/2006 01:11:05 PM · #7

It could be a lot of things, but the camera is the last thing I'd blame. To start, that is not a real sharp lens so there is part of the problem. Also, are you looking at the 100% crop in the center or all over? Most lens are sharper in the center and softer on the edges. Was the focus dead on? In low light you could easily have focus problems. There are a lot factors...

04/12/2006 01:11:07 PM · #8

Bear in mind that all output from the 20D, basically, needs to be sharpened in PP. If you've set in-camera parameters to sharpen, you'll need less in PP, but it's really better to do all sharpening in PP where you have better control over it.

R.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/12/2006 01:16:36 PM · #9

I have manipulated the sharpness using the canon post processing software. I can turn sharpness up to 10 and still be rather blurry.

I do not know how to post photos here. If some one can tell me how I will gladly appreciate it.

The focus was center weighted. But I believe there was plenty of light. When I look at the photo i can see that it is center weighted but even the things in center seem to be blurry.

I do understand my lens is pretty crappy, and I realize I am trying to use this at the extreme end of the range and I am trying to figure out how to over come these issues.

Are there ways of esting a lens for the proper range it should be used in?

Thanks for all your help
Rich

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 13:17:43.

TroyMosley

Canon EOS-5D

04/12/2006 01:20:13 PM · #10

yes the lens you were refering to is pretty slow, you need alot of light to get a good shutter speed,

Prof_Fate

04/12/2006 01:24:46 PM · #11

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Agree 100%.
Finding the PP process to get what you want is the hard part. I have been using a 300D for 15 months. It took a while, But I get super sharp results when I want them.

Now the same lenses and such on the 30D and things are a PITA. better tools and worse photos! I kicked up the sharpness in the camera and I like it better, but perhaps i am just too much a fan of sharp images.

this is handheld and shot in JPG 100% crop as shot, no PP

the following image: PP was USM 300%, .3 and 0 (canon's recomendaton) and then 100% crop, USM 45%, .9, 0 (the last is my normal final step for web images)
I am still working on my RAW workflow for the 30D.

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 13:28:25.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

04/12/2006 01:27:37 PM · #12

Originally posted by thndrdrag:

I am at 300mm, f5.6 and the shutter speed was 1/250. I am noticing my 300mm isnt a very good lens as I search back through my photos.

Thanks Rich

Wide open (f/5.6) at 300mm, the 75-300 is just going to be soft. Unfortunately, that's a well-known attribute of that lens. When shooting at the 300mm end, try stopping down, if possible, to f/8 or f/11. That will improve things, but of course you'll need very good light or your shutter speeds will be too slow.
Also, a shutter speed of 1/250 at 300mm is likely to result in visible camera shake in some shots.

ElGordo

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Canon

04/12/2006 01:27:57 PM · #13

Most modern DSLR cameras contain a very aggressive anti-aliasing (AA) filter that effectively destroys the crispness of the image. These filters (typically) are a thin sheet of glass that has a pattern of very tiny dots that behave as a low pass filter. The placement is such that the dots are completely out of focus but slightly scatter the image light. A 'hot mirror' coating is sometimes integrated with this filter to reduce infra-red contamination of the visible light image.
I have two DSLR cameras that do not have an AA filter and both produce a noticeably sharper image than my Nikon D50, but they are very old technology and produce a noiser image as well!

theSaj

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/12/2006 01:29:08 PM · #14

I didn't see anyone mention it, but you might want to try raising the f/stop value a few notches up from 5.6. Usually the lowest/brightest two f-stops are less sharp.

- Saj

Prof_Fate

04/12/2006 01:31:25 PM · #15

Originally posted by thndrdrag:

to post photos - when you reply or post a msg there are 5 icon at the top of the msg window - the third one insterta an image (form a website where you have that image) _ please remember nothing too large! the globe is a link - to a web page or image, and the last is for members here to post images (the little thumnails you see)

04/12/2006 01:55:17 PM · #16

Thanks Again Everyone,

I will post a link to the photo once i get home and have access to it. I was wondering what is a good inexpensive lens to replace this one that I could be happy with though. I mean I do not want to spend 4000 bucks to get an L series but would like to have a nice telephoto that will give me a bit of quality.

Thanks again to all for your continued support and guidance.
Rich

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

04/12/2006 02:05:59 PM · #17

Originally posted by thndrdrag:

I will post a link to the photo once i get home and have access to it. I was wondering what is a good inexpensive lens to replace this one that I could be happy with though. I mean I do not want to spend 4000 bucks to get an L series but would like to have a nice telephoto that will give me a bit of quality.

The Canon 70-200mm f/4L is one of the great zoom lenses of all time for optical quality, and it can be had for around $550 or so. It's one of the highest-rated lenses in the Fred Miranda user forums. I have one, and it's exceptionally nice :-)

Robt.

srdanz

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

04/12/2006 02:10:58 PM · #18

70-200 f/4 L is a decent lens, and it is sub $1K. A lot of people here use it (70-200)

-Serge

Edit: While I was shopping for the link, brother Bear preempted me.

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 14:11:33.

04/13/2006 07:06:22 AM · #19

Sorry for this taking so long, I had to find some place to host the photos... Here is the origional photo and a 100% crop that shows the softness I am talking about. I left them as links because I gave rather large photos so people cold better analyze.

This is the origional photo

This is the 100% crop of the origional photo

Thanks again to everyone... I just really expected better things I guess is the problem.

riolobo

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

04/13/2006 09:34:32 AM · #20

The first thing I notice about the 100% crop image is that it exhibits a red-cyan fringe, which can be corrected easily in Adobe Bridge (and probably all raw processing programs).

PhantomEWO

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/13/2006 11:09:24 AM · #21

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Bear in mind that all output from the 20D, basically, needs to be sharpened in PP. If you've set in-camera parameters to sharpen, you'll need less in PP, but it's really better to do all sharpening in PP where you have better control over it.

R.

Agree 100%.
Finding the PP process to get what you want is the hard part. I have been using a 300D for 15 months. It took a while, But I get super sharp results when I want them.

Now the same lenses and such on the 30D and things are a PITA. better tools and worse photos! I kicked up the sharpness in the camera and I like it better, but perhaps i am just too much a fan of sharp images.

this is handheld and shot in JPG 100% crop as shot, no PP

the following image: PP was USM 300%, .3 and 0 (canon's recomendaton) and then 100% crop, USM 45%, .9, 0 (the last is my normal final step for web images)
I am still working on my RAW workflow for the 30D.

Maybe a little change in direction BUT ...
does everyone still use USM versus SMART SHARPENING in ther new PS CS2?
It seems that everyone still talks USM, are there advamtages using the older PS technology over the newer Smart sharpen that can still be controlled very effectively? So where would one find the "Canon recommendation" for smart sharp or what is the equivalent to USM 300%, .3 and 0. Seems Smart sharpen has all those controls. Thanks.

Olympus 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 Zuiko Digital Zoom

04/13/2006 12:26:04 PM · #22

Originally posted by thndrdrag:

This is a seriously not-sharp image, for sure. I have taken your 100% to PS and "normal" sharpening routines are completely inadequate. Extremely aggressive use of a third-part image sharpener called "focus magic" comes up with the following:

That shows ample evidence of oversharpening yet it still doesn't look especially sharp.

As others have said, that lens has a bad rep for crispness anyway. Were you hand-holding this or on a tripod? What shutter speed? If it was shot at 300mm, hand-holding alone can easily account for this overall lack of true sharpness also. Under the best of circumstances it's hard to be sharp at 300mm on a 20D handheld; that's the equivalent of 480mm in FF, and you'd need to be using 1/500 or even 1/1000 sec exposure to have a realistic chance of freezing an image hand-held.

I have a very difficult time hand-holding my 70-200mm at full zoom. I'm getting on in years so I don't have the steadiest hands, but my technique as far as bracing and stabilizing is good. Regardless, I always use a tripod with my long lens, and in fact with practically everything. I can see real differences in sharpness even at WA when I use the tripod.

R.

MrXpress

Olympus E-1

04/13/2006 12:36:53 PM · #23

I don't even think the softest of lens will produce a result that soft. I think it's just a focusing error, as it really doesn't look like camera shake to me either.

If you're convinced of replacing the lens though, people usually regard the Sigma 70-300 f/4-5.6 APO DG pretty highly; I'm actually looking to get one to replace my KM 75-300.