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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> I Suck At Sunset Shots!
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 04/06/2006 11:08:02 AM · #1
Okay gurus! I have been trying to capture GOOD sunset shots for ages now and am always disappointed in them. Not sure if its my camera settings or my processing -- or compositional issues.

I don't live in the land of giant vistas unless you count the ocean, but being east coast - we don't get sunset shots there unless your on an island. So I shot the sunset again yesterday (for the zillionth time), this time using a river and a fisherman as my "vista". I'm still not happy with the images. They look kinda "dead" they seem to be lacking that zow and zing that I admire so much in other people's sunset images..... please help me before I give up on golden light forever!! (Ok, that's probably not going to happen! hehee)


04/06/2006 11:10:41 AM · #2
Nothing wrong with that one!!!

I think you have to be lucky with the clouds etc.
Your fisherman is a fantastic foreground object, but think how good that shot would have been if there was not a cloud in the sky, just a massive orange sun refelcting on the water!
 04/06/2006 11:18:57 AM · #3
Well, I'm not sure if I'm a guru or not, but I'm guessing not... =] All I know about sunrises/sets is that I underexpose a LOT. I expose so that the only thing blown out is the sun itself (or close to it)...

The rest is post... and that varies too... this particular shot looks about like it did in real life (after the post)... but it doesn't have too...

Of course, this only works if you're going for a silhoutte look...


before


after

edit: oh right... undereposure. my camera wanted to expose this scene at f/2 for 1/200s. In the end, I used f/2 for 1/1600s. Why f/2? yeah, I'm not sure either... lol

Message edited by author 2006-04-06 11:21:05.
 04/06/2006 11:30:32 AM · #4
I left you a comment. :)
 04/06/2006 11:32:18 AM · #5
Yea those types of shots (like the one you posted) are tough. You can only expose for one thing or the other. IE the sun or the fisherman. I'd approach it by exposing for the sun and using a fill flash or light to get the fisherman exposed as well if you wanted them both exposed equally. However, the silhouette of the fisherman would be sweet too!

JMTC....

The pic is not bad at all. I wouldn't be too disappointed with it if it were me! ;-)

Originally posted by idnic:
Okay gurus! I have been trying to capture GOOD sunset shots for ages now and am always disappointed in them. Not sure if its my camera settings or my processing -- or compositional issues.

I don't live in the land of giant vistas unless you count the ocean, but being east coast - we don't get sunset shots there unless your on an island. So I shot the sunset again yesterday (for the zillionth time), this time using a river and a fisherman as my "vista". I'm still not happy with the images. They look kinda "dead" they seem to be lacking that zow and zing that I admire so much in other people's sunset images..... please help me before I give up on golden light forever!! (Ok, that's probably not going to happen! hehee)


04/06/2006 12:01:59 PM · #6
One's eyes can perceive about 10 - 12 stops of light between the darkest shadows and the brightest highlights. Our cameras can only capture a dynamic range of about 5 camera stops. (A poor substitute for the eyes.) When the sun is in the sky, with clouds or not, the sky is very hot and the landscape will be in silhouette to the camera. My solution has always been to put the sun on my back and look for what is being illuminated by the golden light. Even then, neutral density filters or composite digital photography is needed to reduce the dynamic range of some scenes.

wouldn't it be fine if Canon or Nikon developed camera sensors capable of capturing a wide dynamic range?
 04/06/2006 12:03:38 PM · #7
I by no means am an expert, but what I usually do is set to slightly overexpose the brightest area of the scene. This usually underexposes the foreground and gives a nice silhouette appearance to everything without completely blowing out your highlights. It looks like yours is simply overexposed... your exposure was set for the water which did give you a decent silhouette foreground, but completely blew out the highlights in your sunset.

Here are some examples from my portfolio.... notice how underexposed the water and foreground are.




Again... I'm no expert so take all advice with a grain of salt!

My $0.02 USD. Hope this helps!

Edit to add

In the fountain shot, I actually used the water to block the sun which allowed me to bump up my exposure a little and bring out the foreground a little.

Oh... and I live on the east coast too... you always have the option of getting up early and getting sunrise pictures!!! (like some of mine)

Message edited by author 2006-04-06 12:15:47.
 04/06/2006 12:09:24 PM · #8
Lovely images here and some great tips for me to keep in mind next time i try this. I shot in RAW, so there may yet be hope for this image, but certainly getting the exposure right the first time is the desirable result.
04/06/2006 12:16:41 PM · #9
Graduated ND filters. To know them, is to love them. :D
 04/06/2006 12:17:00 PM · #10
Is that a crop of the original???
 04/06/2006 12:27:03 PM · #11
Originally posted by notonline:
Is that a crop of the original???


A slight crop, I removed a bit of foreground and cropped a bit on the left.

Edit: And removed an annoying 2nd person in the scene.

Message edited by author 2006-04-06 12:27:44.
 04/06/2006 12:44:57 PM · #12
One book that I read recommended that you meter the sky just next to the sun to get the best exposure for sunsets. That should make the sky look great, but it might underexpose the foreground. To fix this, you might want to take a couple more shots that are a stop or two brighter and then combine them later. Graduated ND filters are great, but this method will work nicely if you don't have one.
 04/06/2006 12:48:22 PM · #13
Originally posted by PhilipDyer:
One book that I read recommended that you meter the sky just next to the sun to get the best exposure for sunsets. That should make the sky look great, but it might underexpose the foreground. To fix this, you might want to take a couple more shots that are a stop or two brighter and then combine them later. Graduated ND filters are great, but this method will work nicely if you don't have one.


That method works well to increase dynamic range for night photography also... Get a few bracketed exposures and then make a composite using your "underexposed" image(s) for your bright areas and your normal/overexposed image(s) for your darker areas.
 04/06/2006 12:52:17 PM · #14
your shot is really good, but in order to "even" out the exposure try a ND filter. another good trick is to meter off the sky, then you can adjust your settings after you have seen what the LCD gives you. In this age of digital don't be afraid to experiment. Of course the other alternative is to get a camera that will mesh two images together in the camera. so you can expose for the fisherman and then another for the sky and put them together. just make sure you have a tripod.
 04/07/2006 02:34:24 AM · #15
Cindi sent me the RAW file of her sunset and I have played with it. To be honest, I am not sure why she's having the problems with it that she is.

Here's the "straight" RAW file, neutrally processed from RAW with low contrast ΓΆ€” obviously, I haven't taken the trouble of cloning out the second figure:



Here's the same RAW conversion juiced in Photoshop (extremely juiced) with NO blow-out problems whatsoever ΓΆ€” I did contrast masking, and set the shadow mask to "soft light" and the highlight mask to "multiply", then did a selection for above-the-horizon and beneath-the-horizon and adjusted selective color separately for each:



Why Cindi ended up with this I do not know; obviously her version is much higher-key, but the RAW suggests to us that we can get a lighter version without the excessive blowout if we want to, and that proves to be the case:



For comparison, here's the original posted image:



For whatever all that's worth... Thanks for letting me play with it, Cindi.

Robt.
 04/07/2006 03:42:04 PM · #16
I somehow missed this post! At TWO A.M.!! Go figure!

Thank you for taking time to play with my image, Robert! I think the #1 error I made when processing from the RAW image was that I brightened until the fg looked the way it ACTUALLY looked - then tried to bring the sky down in PS - Should have stayed with the captured values and worked from there as you did.

So I guess I don't suck at shooting sunsets as much as I thought, I just suck at processing them! :)

Thanks again hubby-to-be. You're so good to me ;)
 04/07/2006 03:43:00 PM · #17
hubby to be? yeah yeah :P
 04/07/2006 03:52:38 PM · #18
Originally posted by Rikki:
hubby to be? yeah yeah :P


You'll be invited to the wedding! Maybe we'll have some martini glasses you can shoot ;P
 04/07/2006 03:53:23 PM · #19
Originally posted by idnic:
Originally posted by Rikki:
hubby to be? yeah yeah :P


You'll be invited to the wedding! Maybe we'll have some martini glasses you can shoot ;P


as long as i get to eat some of bear's home cookin' :)
 04/07/2006 04:00:16 PM · #20
Living in Florida and sucking at sunsets/sunrises is not a good combination to have although I can relate. I lived in Florida for two years and my sunset shots never came out good. Probably because I hate taking my tripod and I didn't really know what I was doing at the time with my film camera. Damn I love digital

Edited to clarify

Message edited by author 2006-04-07 16:01:25.
 04/07/2006 04:04:22 PM · #21
East coast = sun rise shots.
 04/07/2006 04:51:08 PM · #22
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
......

For comparison, here's the original posted image:


Don't feel bad if you have trouble with sunsets. They can be tricky. There is usually a wide range of f/stops between the brightest and darkest areas of the image. That is why you were fooled into trying to make the foreground to appear like it "really" was. Your eye adjusts to these things far better than a camera will.

Obviously you had post-processing problems and not exposure problems. Bear_Music did a great job with the image. I like the first one for it's photo realistic appearance and the second one for its surrealistic appearance.

The suggestion above to set your exposure value slightly less than the brightest area of the scene is worth burning into your brain permanently.

Some other general sunset tips:
1-Decide where to take pictures and get there EARLY to setup for your shots. Sunsets need a little pre-planning because they pass quickly.

2-Use a tripod and take bracketed exposures of the scene if you have time.

3-Generally there is a period of between 1/2-1 hour before and after sunset for taking pictures.

4-Stay and take pictures throughout the entire sunset. It is AMAZING how much they change and how rapidly they change. Its entire character can change in 30 seconds. They can appear to fizzle out but then suddenly come back strong. Leave when it gets dark.

5-Try a mix of telephoto and wide angle shots to capture different aspects of the sunset.

Be advised that you will not be able to absolutely predict in advance if a sunset is going to be great or not. It is a hit and miss prospect. That is because it depends on the cloud cover beyond the horizon that you can't see. It has to be clear below the horizon for the sun to illuminate the underside of cloud cover that produces the most spectacular colors and patterns that make sunsets special.


04/07/2006 08:08:55 PM · #23
Originally posted by idnic:
I somehow missed this post! At TWO A.M.!! Go figure!

Thank you for taking time to play with my image, Robert! I think the #1 error I made when processing from the RAW image was that I brightened until the fg looked the way it ACTUALLY looked - then tried to bring the sky down in PS - Should have stayed with the captured values and worked from there as you did.

So I guess I don't suck at shooting sunsets as much as I thought, I just suck at processing them! :)

Thanks again hubby-to-be. You're so good to me ;)


The sooner you can get up here so we can do some serious work together, the sooner your frustration will vanish :-)

I'm glad you think I'm "good to you", dearest; that's important, don't you think? And ignore Rikki, he's just jealous of me...

R.
 04/08/2006 02:56:08 AM · #24
Originally posted by faidoi:
East coast = sun rise shots.


Actually, Florida has just about as much "west coast" as it does "east coast"... Ane Florida sunsets over the Gulf of Mexico are among the best in the world... I think Cindi's much closer to the Atlantic, though. But no place in Florida is all that far from the Gulf; it's a pretty skinny state, as states go :-)

Robt.
 04/08/2006 03:07:19 AM · #25
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Actually, Florida has just about as much "west coast" as it does "east coast"...

I'm a California native and strongly conditioned to think of the water as "West" -- the couple of years I lived in Santa Cruz were completely disorienting because the d****d beach and Boardwalk face South!

Of course, I was living up on the hill on the UC Campus most of that time, and didn't see much of the beach at all ...
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