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08/06/2003 09:44:50 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Basically, this is a challenge site. If the photograph is off-topic, mark it low. |
But remember that challenges are open to interpretation, too. I like to REWARD creativity when it comes to the challenge. Also of note: I have found very, very few photos that were not 'on-topic.' And those probably were; I was most likely just too dense to see how it fit, so I disagree with the harsh black/white demarcation of 'on-topic' or 'off topic'. I don't think it's a yes or no thing!
HOWEVER, I do think that clarity is an issue. If a photo is on-topic, but could be more clear in its topicality, then I might give it a lower score, but then the issue remains photography and technique, and not just 'on-topic' or 'off-topic." Putting it bluntly, would a photographer be so stupid as to post a photo to a challenge if he or she did not think it was 'on-topic'? For heaven's sake, give the image the benefit of the doubt and keep your criticism focused on photography.
For these reasons, I also applaud zeuszen's attitide about the challenge topic stimulating creativity rather than curbing it.
Message edited by author 2003-08-06 23:50:23.
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08/06/2003 11:26:46 PM · #27 |
When I joined the site, I was drawn to the mission of the site. Quoting form the founders, "The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week."
The number one thing to me is to "become a better photographer". I think I have and I have had a lot of fun. But it seems the learning is taking second place to "the challenge". Oh well, things change.
I vote 1/3 composition, 1/3 technical execution, 1/3 challenge. A great photograph that is completely off subject can be a 6. Average in all three areas is a 5 or 6.
I am very liberal about the challenge - in my opinion, the challenge topic is make us think in a different way, not meet each voters ideal of what the challenge should be.
I guess to me the challenge is to learn and do better.
Increasingly disenchanted,
Dennis
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08/06/2003 11:40:13 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by rickhd13:
[quote=zeuszen]
WHY HAVE A CHALLENGE TOPIC IF YOU DON"T HAVE TO STICK TO THE CHALLENGE TO GET A GOOD SCORE |
If you read my post again, more slowly perhaps, you may find the issue you raise addressed. |
In that case I would have to vote on 200 Clocks with 90 degree hands and triangle rullers on white paper!
Show some creativity here and reward those photos!
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08/07/2003 12:01:26 AM · #29 |
so i have a gazillion clocks to look forward to? yikes.
this challenge is a tough one to judge. i'm giving out scores, but will likely go back to adjust them as i come across better/worst ones. haven't come across a 10 yet. or a 9. but haven't reached the 20% mark either. |
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08/07/2003 01:06:21 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by dsidwell:
For these reasons, I also applaud zeuszen's attitide about the challenge topic stimulating creativity rather than curbing it. |
I, too, wholeheartedly endorse Zeuszen's opinion. However, I won't go as far as to say that there have only been a few off-topics shots during the challenges at DPC. Without naming names, I can say for certain that each challenge does throw up a fair percentage of clearly dubious entries as well as a number of highly creative interpretations of the challenge. For the latter, I score highly. The former, lowly. The decision about a photograph meeting the challenge or not is, in many instances, purely subjective, and I will defend my right to that.
Dsidwell encourages us to question our own understanding of the challenge topic by giving the benefit of the doubt to dubious entries thereby expanding our interpretational limits. This is all very well. A personal choice I have made is not to be too flexible in that choice. |
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08/07/2003 01:40:50 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Originally posted by dsidwell:
For these reasons, I also applaud zeuszen's attitide about the challenge topic stimulating creativity rather than curbing it. |
I, too, wholeheartedly endorse Zeuszen's opinion. However, I won't go as far as to say that there have only been a few off-topics shots during the challenges at DPC. Without naming names, I can say for certain that each challenge does throw up a fair percentage of clearly dubious entries as well as a number of highly creative interpretations of the challenge. For the latter, I score highly. The former, lowly. The decision about a photograph meeting the challenge or not is, in many instances, purely subjective, and I will defend my right to that.
Dsidwell encourages us to question our own understanding of the challenge topic by giving the benefit of the doubt to dubious entries thereby expanding our interpretational limits. This is all very well. A personal choice I have made is not to be too flexible in that choice. |
Let's postulate ManRay submitted a b & w from the afterworld for the current future challenge. Of course, he could submit anything without having to worry about a topic, since, really, anything he'd submit would perfectly meet the challenge, post mortem.
I wonder if Koriyama's 'personal choice' would be sufficient to accommodate either the merits of the photo itself or be capable to detect the ironic intent or anyone of the two?
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08/07/2003 01:54:07 AM · #32 |
Rick, even cute little, cuddly snakes? ;) Seriously, I know that people judge pics based on personal appeal so I've wondered if you'd just skip a snake pic or judge it based on other aspects. Heck, maybe even give an extra point for someone having the guts to get that close to one!
I encouraged my brother and sister to hold it so that I could take pictures, but I used a pen to move it onto the flower. ;P |
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08/07/2003 02:27:04 AM · #33 |
Right Angles is the 4th challenge I have tried to vote on 100% and comment on at least 33%. After the first three challenges I was afraid the my scoring was inconsistent, so I developed the following approach:
Focus 1-10 x .2 (up to 6 for having correct focus, higher for creative use of focus)
Exposure 1-10 x .2 (up to 6 for "correct" exposure, higher for creative use of exposure)
Composition 1-10 x .3 (up to 6 for good composition, higher for creativity)
Challenge 1-10 x .3 (up to 6 for at least addressing the challenge, higher for creativity)
Add them together and round for the final score.
So far I like the results and I feel more confident about the scores.
If it works out well, I'll probably automate with some simple tool so I can paste the result right into the comments. (yes, I'm a geek) |
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08/07/2003 02:38:21 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I wonder if Koriyama's 'personal choice' would be sufficient to accommodate either the merits of the photo itself or be capable to detect the ironic intent or anyone of the two? |
It doesn't need to be. It only has to satisfy my own on-the-spot decisions. Photography, including judging, is an intensely personal action. Don't try and make it appear to be some kind of all-encompassing, truthfull entity. It's not. Only I need be the judge of whether or not my personal choice is sufficient or not. (Aside: DPC's votes are private, further strengthening the anominity.)
If someone tries irony, but that irony falls flat, do you blame the maker or the viewer? |
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08/07/2003 04:02:35 AM · #35 |
| Hey I have one of those very dice! I didn't even know that's what it was for I was using a plain old red speckled d10 DOH now I know! |
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08/07/2003 04:22:09 AM · #36 |
When I vote...
Hey thats neat..7
Ehh..Soso..5
Wow..10
What happened there?..3
Hey that looks like my dog..6
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08/07/2003 01:48:49 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I wonder if Koriyama's 'personal choice' would be sufficient to accommodate either the merits of the photo itself or be capable to detect the ironic intent or anyone of the two? |
It doesn't need to be. It only has to satisfy my own on-the-spot decisions. Photography, including judging, is an intensely personal action. Don't try and make it appear to be some kind of all-encompassing, truthfull entity. It's not. Only I need be the judge of whether or not my personal choice is sufficient or not. (Aside: DPC's votes are private, further strengthening the anominity.)
If someone tries irony, but that irony falls flat, do you blame the maker or the viewer? |
It apparently is an intensely personal action, for Koriyama. I would hope that it is a truthful one as well, for most of us, including K. If, however, Koriyama refutes all considerations that are not his own, we have an island, not a world.
> If someone tries irony, and that irony falls flat, I cannot 'blame' anyone. I would likely regret the shortcomings. If someone (as in my example) succeeded at irony, and that irony would fall on deaf ears, I would pity the owner of those ears.
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08/07/2003 03:08:25 PM · #38 |
Wow, my head is spinning in a hippie-dippie swirling haze of relativism and mystical mantras. Maybe 1 + 1 can equal 3, if that's what someone somewhere believes it to be. The world is tumbling away, and I see rainbows and butterflys. How could I have been so judgemental? ManRay is calling, the past is future, the future is past, and my brain is dead.
10s for everyone... |
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08/07/2003 03:19:29 PM · #39 |
I first look for quality elements: color, clarity, composition, evocation. If it hits all of those, we are 5 or above. If it fails those, it usually drops below 5. If it hits them but with no frills, it gets a 5.
Off-subject photos I find are rare. It's a wide interpretation. If they are really off-subject-- I rate them for the photo as above and then maybe knock off one point if it is clearly way off base. I think it has only happened to me once.
Then I vote on every photo until they all pop-up rated. Then I compare all the 10s, 9s, etc. against each other to be sure they are right.
I usually end up with a nice bell curve. Most fall in the middle with the exceptions at both ends. However, on the Future challenge I voted on today, I didn't get any low scores under a 4 which is unusual.
That's my take.
Renee
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08/07/2003 04:09:46 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by byetko:
When I vote...
Hey thats neat..7
Ehh..Soso..5
Wow..10
What happened there?..3
Hey that looks like my dog..6 |
I like this! That's about what I do, trying to find what makes it good and what ruins it.
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