Complex Composition for Discussion

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/30/2006 12:06:34 AM · #1

My entry in "Low Key" is, I think, a mixture of several interesting compostional models. It didn't score especially well in a challenge dominated by dark, mostly B/W low key shots, undoubtedly because many felt it was too bright to be low key. I won't argue that point, although I don't agree with it. But I thought the composition was interesting, so I throw it up for comments:

1. It's broken up into 4 more or less equal quadrants, with a horizon right across the middle and a vertical break right up the middle. This, of course, is a no-no by the book.

2. It has 2 strong rule-of-thirds components: the working gear of the large boat and the rightmost boat, mast and their reflections, serving to further divide the overall composition into 3 vertical zones from left to right, overlaid on the centered central vertical break.

3. It has a strong leading-line component the drak arc-and-sweep of the larger boat's rubbing strake, which also leads you into the center of the image, where you pick up the moored boat and follow it until you eye ends up at the sun.

That's my analysis of it anyway. I like it. Do you?

Robt.

dpdave

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III

03/30/2006 01:37:21 AM · #2

I left a comment... and for the record, I like it!

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

03/30/2006 01:47:05 AM · #3

I can see where you're coming from. About 20% of the voters scored this a 4 or less which seems awfully high for this image. I'd say your first assumption about it not being low key enough was probably the only reason it got those bad scores. Tough break.

fotomann_forever

03/30/2006 01:52:33 AM · #4

It's a really nice shot bear, but I guess it really doesn't fit into what most would consider low-key.

03/30/2006 11:23:22 AM · #5

People, I don't CARE about the score. I knew going in that this would not fare very well in a "low key" challenge. Trust me on that. I made top 50, not bad at all.

I posted this because we hear a lot about "compositional rules" in here, and I think this is an unusual, and unusually effective, composition. I was seeking others' opinion on this aspect of it, and thought it might evolve into a compositional discussion that would be of some use to the "seekers" in DPC.

It's not all about scores :-)

Robt.

fotomann_forever

03/30/2006 11:26:29 AM · #6

Well in that case, the composition is excellent :-) You might want to push the front of the boat over a little closer to the left thirds line though :-P

awpollard

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

03/30/2006 12:00:09 PM · #7

Just curious, why do you consider it unusual?

If shooting down at Seaport Village, this would be the same composition that I would look for.

Split the scene in half with the horizon, compose with a secondary subject either side of the frame (no more than half, no less then third) to give the viewer a feel for how close the foreground is.

Drive the viewer backwards with a leading line to a brighter spot in the background.

You pulled it off nicely here with a deep DOF, foreground has detail but does not cause me to stop and focus my attention there. I am drawn to exactly what you wished me to focus on.

Great composition, thirds rule here might even give us too much horizon to take in and we would over shoot the sun and silhouetted boat near the horizon and actually be drawn off the edge of the shot.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/30/2006 12:11:09 PM · #8

I thought it an exceptionally pleasing composition, but have to admit I didn't know why. Very good explanation and puts a new data point in my head to keep in mind in the future. Not that it'll stay there... that data point, in my head... But you never know!

Very nice pic, by the way.

ladyhawk22

Sony DSLR-A700

Sony SAL-50F14 Normal 50mm f/1.4 Autofocus Lens for the Sony

03/30/2006 12:12:49 PM · #9

I particularly like the different "levels" of depth in the picture. My mind can almost see it like a lithograph, which eat boat laid on one layer over the other.

If you decide to make a print of this, let me know. My Dad would just love this as well.

03/30/2006 12:47:44 PM · #10

Originally posted by awpollard:

I agree. Call it "unsual" in terms of the "rules" that are typically spoonfed to learning photographers. It's nothing unusual for me. Or you, for that matter. The point, if there is one, is that complexity of composition CAN work without appearing busy. You don't need to restrict yourself to a single "rule" per composition, certainly. And when you start mixing them up, some of them are better off "broken"; for example, the "rule" that you never put your horizon in the middle of the frame is broken here...

Robt.

awpollard

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

03/30/2006 01:01:03 PM · #11

Why this shot works for me (technically) with guide line superimposed Re-enforcing the strength of the detail. (hope you don't mind Bear).

Yellow = ROT (Thirds)
Blue = Center point/Quarters
White = View Path (leading lines IMO)

Discuss...

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

03/30/2006 01:08:13 PM · #12

I'm really glad that you put this out there. Both in the challenge and in the forums. I missed it in voting, but I think I saw it when I went in to start voting.

I'm not sure how I feel about the lighting. It certainly made me think about low key, which to me is more about careful consideration to using small amounts of light in an overall dark scene with very purposeful effects.

It kinda rides bright a bit from my understaning of things, but to be honest, I'm so inexperienced, I'd rather use it as something to expand my understanding of Low Key as opposed to clamping down my definition upon it.

I probably would have given it a 7-9 depending on my mood towards peaceful pics at the time of voting.

As far as the composition is concerned, it looks to me like something I would have composed. I do my best to compose based on my feeling before considering the 'rules'. I don't always understand the decisions I make, and I'm usually ok with that because I want my photography to progress equally with the naturally artistic side and the technical side.

Considering the composition afterwards by reading your description, it feels very mathematical to me. I see cubism in this one.

I see halves as a repeating theme, even though they aren't necessarily mathematically adhered to 100%.

I go from right to left. edge to sun, sun to center of the boat, center of the boat to left of boat, left edge of boat to the centered edge of the large boat. What is curious to me is that while the sun is almost aligned with the right edge of the boat, my mind wants to shift it over to create doubling distances. Then trebling distances. Then the move to boxes.

My eyes tend to do very little vertical movement and I almost completely ignore that small boat in the background.

... just my observations on my reactions.

I found the consideration of the picture fascinating and I love to learn about things that are hard for me to grasp such as eye flow through a picture.

Thanks.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

03/30/2006 01:09:15 PM · #13

Originally posted by awpollard:

Excellent! That's a good, graphic rendition of pretty much what I was talking about, yup. Thanks for taking the time.

R.

Gatorguy

Nikon D700

03/30/2006 01:10:18 PM · #14

Bear,

Just wondering about your mindset and goal when composing this image. Was the Sun your ultimate subject and you found a composion that lead to it, or right boat the main subject (in your mind) and you looked around for forground and background interest? Other?
I'm working very hard on understanding composition and like to hear of different thought processes.

Thanks

Bill

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/30/2006 01:15:20 PM · #15

Originally posted by Gatorguy:

Speaking very generally, I was drawn to the scene by the reflecting boats out on the water and the clarity of the emerging dawn. I have quite a few shots without the foreground boat. They were all "pretty" but lacked "power" so I consciously set out to add the power, and this is what I found. The whole process took place in a period of about 3-4 minutes, and me with a tripod to boot, and the temperatures in the high 20's. My hands were completely numb when I finished, I hadn't brought my gloves.

I'll try to add some of the other shots.

Robt.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

03/30/2006 01:15:53 PM · #16

Originally posted by awpollard:

I align with this diagram, particularly in that it acknowledges the strong influence of colour in the composition. On another level, the shot strikes me as combination of landscape and portrait mode, a difficult demand on eyes accustomed to either one or the other.

03/30/2006 01:31:46 PM · #17

Originally posted by zeuszen:

On another level, the shot strikes me as combination of landscape and portrait mode, a difficult demand on eyes accustomed to either one or the other.

YES! I feel that too. Note the first of the following outtakes.

Re my promise in the previous post: Oddly, I did not save any of the shots prior to the one I ended up using, but still have a few after, none of them especially appealing. All the following are straight from camera, no processing, so in the case of the first one as compared to the submitted image you can see how much (or how little) processing went into this.

Robt.

Message edited by author 2006-03-30 13:32:21.

awpollard

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

03/30/2006 09:42:03 PM · #18

Informative Topic *bump* for the evening crowd...

Baron152

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/30/2006 09:44:52 PM · #19

Beautiful shot, I left a comment.

Neil

Fujifilm X-T30

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

03/30/2006 10:17:24 PM · #20

Hey Robert!

It didn't strike me as much how effective this was in landscape until I saw the portrait mode shot. While that is probably what I would have shot, I really like the more forced movement to the subject you get with the landscape version.

I am not sure I see the same leading lines as Andy's. To me, the leading lines are from wedge of the entire hull (all the way to the water) to the edge and then to the little boat. The whole shape of the boat, minus the mast area, seems to be the dominant form. But perhaps that's due to differences in the way we look at photos. I realize it's not very bright as a shapem but it's still very dominant in my eyss. Just curious and trying to understand how others see things.

cornettcag

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Tamron AF 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II for Canon

03/30/2006 10:40:50 PM · #21

To me (a beginner) the lines, quadrants and rule of thirds add up to my eye 'bouncing' around the photo just like my eyes would if I was actually there, watching bobbing boats. So.... the image demands my attention, allowing me to see other things.

In short I like it. I like the sunset too.

cornettcag

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Tamron AF 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II for Canon

03/30/2006 10:47:54 PM · #22

Do you see the name of the foreground craft?
Is it the "Honey Do!!!" boat or the "Honey Don't" boat?