| Author | Thread |
|
|
03/29/2006 07:50:58 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by alintatoc:
What do you mean by that, because I've voted... |
As has been previously posted, your votes were very likely disregarded because you voted so many 1's. Think about it; there's really no way that almost 1/3 of the photos submitted for a challenge were "as bad as it gets."
Think about your voting scale, and rate photos so that the "average" shot is really in the middle of the scale, somewhere around a 5. The best possible photo is a 10, and the worst possible is a 1.
I think I've given *maybe* a dozen 1's. In over 77,000 votes. |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 07:50:58 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Generally speaking, your average vote cast should fall somewhere vaguely near the middle of the voting scale (5.5). If it's more than about a point and a half in either direction, you should think about whether you're being overly harsh or generous with your scores.
~Terry |
Don't encourage that, lol! Everybody will end up in the Middling Masses Massacre thread :D
Message edited by author 2006-03-29 07:52:16. |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 08:03:58 AM · #28 |
Of course you are free to vote how you wish, provided the pattern does not get flagged. For myself, I don't see many photos that deserve a "1", which in my interpretation is reserved for something so bad it hurts my eyes to look at it (or completely DNMC but usually I give the benefit of the doubt). Conversely, I don't give a lot of 10's either. My average vote cast is around 5.2+ which I think is statisticly about right (by my scale anyway).
A "1" is pretty harsh. |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 08:10:52 AM · #29 |
| Just out of curiousity...how would you vote on your photo, alintatoc? |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 08:23:38 AM · #30 |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 08:48:40 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by alintatoc:
Of course not, but maybe from 300 pictures I think that 80 or 100 deserve 1...is this true? |
Holy shipoopie, batman! No wonder my pics score so low! How many other highly inappropriate voters are there out there?
Oh, thank goodness for that troll vote script that eliminated these votes! Whewee! |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 09:11:38 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by KiwiPix:
Originally posted by alintatoc:
hello everybody
I don't understand one thing, I gave for some pictures in the hands challenge 1 and when I look at the photo there is no 1 there, why? |
Wow, that's really scary. A photo really only deserves a 1 if it is really really bad :) Usually that means out of focus + too dark to see anything + completely off topic (like a foot in "Hands") + taken through a blanket at ISO20,000. Like, bad bad.
No technically ok photo should earn a 1 if you simply don't like it. Liked your hands entry by the way :)
Brett |
As far as I can tell there's no official voting guidelines so people are left to devise their own systems. As long as these systems are self-consistent throughout a challenge, I don't see how that's problematic.
One way of voting is to score everything in a challenge relatively and on a curve, so the lowest n% of a contest is always going to get 1s. These aren't necessarily bad, just the worst of the challenge in one person's mind. |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 09:27:03 AM · #33 |
While I agree on this this regarding guidelines, it still strikes me as strange (IMO) that, with the quality of photographs that get submitted to challenges, how someone can say that 80-100 photographs are that bad that they deserve 1's.
Perhaps the voter needs to look at his monitor calibrations, perhaps get a second opinion from an optician. But I would think (again IMO)that there must be something wrong.
Originally posted by m:
As far as I can tell there's no official voting guidelines so people are left to devise their own systems. As long as these systems are self-consistent throughout a challenge, I don't see how that's problematic.
One way of voting is to score everything in a challenge relatively and on a curve, so the lowest n% of a contest is always going to get 1s. These aren't necessarily bad, just the worst of the challenge in one person's mind. |
|
|
|
|
03/29/2006 09:33:17 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by m:
As far as I can tell there's no official voting guidelines so people are left to devise their own systems. As long as these systems are self-consistent throughout a challenge, I don't see how that's problematic.
One way of voting is to score everything in a challenge relatively and on a curve, so the lowest n% of a contest is always going to get 1s. These aren't necessarily bad, just the worst of the challenge in one person's mind. |
Under that criteria, these pics
from the last Masters Free Study should have recieved 1's?????
I don't think so! |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 09:36:19 AM · #35 |
::steals Dave's popcorn::
Originally posted by deapee:
|
|
|
|
|
03/29/2006 09:47:50 AM · #36 |
| you gonna share that popcorn with me mom? :D |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 09:51:42 AM · #37 |
Alintatoc, I agree that you have a right to vote 1's. You even have a right to vote lots of 1's if you like.
BUT, there are clearly more mediocre shots in most challenges than really terrible shots.
There are also large numbers of poor, crummy, boring and so so pictures.
I personally find fair numbers of pictures that are kinda drab, very poorly done, well-done but tragically stupid, poorly done but well thought and clearly visible but rather pointless pictures too.
That's a pretty broad range from 2-5 right there.
I'm by no means kind to everyone and I am not afraid to be harsh with pictures taken by people who know better, but seriously if you know how to use that camera, then you will have to have some idea why many pictures merit a 4, or a 6 or...
I had a tough time in the Low-key and I got more 2's than my 8's, 9's and 10's put together. Same for my 3's and my 4's. I voted on 58% in the challenge and commented on 13%. My average vote was probably in the 4's for that challenge.
But that was a rough challenge and not the norm. (and there were a surprisingly large number of pics that made it to the top 50 that I never even saw)
Most of the 1's I handed out ended up on the DQ page.
Incidentally, you will notice that there are successful voters here with low averages that are very critical of others and that's fine, but wouldn't it be better if you just put some more thought into what the whole concept of 1-10 means?
I am a teacher and when my students need to be chosen, sometimes I tell them to pick a number from 1-10. Now this is a random number, but guess what I can tell about a student when they always pick the same number every time?
|
|
|
|
03/29/2006 09:52:47 AM · #38 |
Sure! and Dave (deapee not ur hubby since hes not a member here)
Originally posted by kaelva:
you gonna share that popcorn with me mom? :D |
|
|
|
|
03/29/2006 09:55:57 AM · #39 |
| thanks cause i'm really hungry :D (my dave isn't home anyways) |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 10:02:24 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by alintatoc:
I gave high marks for some photos, like 9 and 10, which I realy liked but for me, to give high marks means that the photo should be unique, should have something that I don't see all the time. |
How many photos did you give a rating between 2 and 8?
Its hard to judge a photo correctly, but its easy to say good (10) or bad (1). |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 10:03:02 AM · #41 |
My 2 cents, for what its worth.
I made a new year's resolution in January "No more Fives!!" I now vote all images on a 6 - 10 scale. That puts 8 as "average" on my scale. I no longer feel bad when I give someone a "low" score and I live with myself better this way.
Just my way.
IMO a 1 is a score you give to someone who held the camera upsidedown, with the lens cap on, and submitted it waaaaaaaaay too small and OOF - and I've never seen one that bad!
|
|
|
|
03/29/2006 10:05:38 AM · #42 |
I just vote all 10's. I find it's much less stressfull.
:-)
|
|
|
|
03/29/2006 10:07:32 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I just vote all 10's. I find it's much less stressfull.
:-) |
rflmao:) too funny!
|
|
|
|
03/29/2006 10:08:53 AM · #44 |
If you consider DPC to have a standard mix of photographers with a standard mix of abilities, then for any given challenge, your average vote "should" end up to be 5.5, which is the dead-center of a 1-10 scale. (The reality of things is that since you can't vote a "5.5", most people treat 5 as the middle, so it is the practical average.) There will be votes to the left and right of that point, but on average, you should end up there. If your average is below it, then you are saying that the collective entries were below average, and if it is above it, then you are saying that people were collectively above average in their attempts.
It is difficult for me to believe that anyone could honestly consider 1/3rd of the entries to be ones. To me, a photo worth a one should have been deleted from the camera before it was downloaded to the computer. I have only given out a handful of ones, and they were not because of the quality of the photograph, but because they were (in my opinion) meant by the photographer to be contraverial and/or offensive.
The best voters (and I do not claim to be there yet) are the ones that end up with a wide bell curve around the mid-point, using most - if not all - of the 1-10 scale. Anecdotally, most of us end up pretty clustered around the 4-6 or 3-7 range.
|
|
|
|
03/29/2006 10:10:27 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by shanksware:
Originally posted by m:
As far as I can tell there's no official voting guidelines so people are left to devise their own systems. As long as these systems are self-consistent throughout a challenge, I don't see how that's problematic.
One way of voting is to score everything in a challenge relatively and on a curve, so the lowest n% of a contest is always going to get 1s. These aren't necessarily bad, just the worst of the challenge in one person's mind. |
Under that criteria, these pics
from the last Masters Free Study should have recieved 1's?????
I don't think so! |
Under that criteria, explain what would be wrong with that (I'm assuming those were the bottom images, I didn't actually check). You're not saying that the photos are bad, you're saying they aren't as good as everything else. What you are saying is that photo A which you rank a two is better than photo B which you rank a 1, which you otherwise would be ranking the same if you were using a less precise scale.
I don't see it any different that having, for instance, figure skating judges be less strict in a Junior qualifying competition than in the Olympics. In the latter there is much less difference between competitors so everything possible will be deducted, even for the slightest mistake, which might go ignored in the junior qualifiers. If you judged everybody in the Olympics as you would in the qualifiers you'd probably have everybody tied for first.
Message edited by author 2006-03-29 10:13:25. |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 10:13:11 AM · #46 |
can't speak for him but i'd give it a '1' ;}
Originally posted by Giogio:
Just out of curiousity...how would you vote on your photo, alintatoc? |
|
|
|
|
03/29/2006 10:41:58 AM · #47 |
Just like votes received on any particular photo will generally show a bell curve, votes given during a challenge will normally follow the same pattern. When the curve is consistently skewed heavily to the top or the bottom, the purpose of the 1-10 range is defeated. This is what the site admins are trying to prevent with the vote filter.
I just hope the code is in place to disregard 80-100 "10" votes as well as "1" votes as given by any voter during a challenge. It would only be fair.
As an example, my particular voting pattern has settled down into roughly the pattern below:
1 - Don't insult me. The photographer is obviously trying to be stupid and there is no artistic merit
2 - Don't unintentionally insult me. Barest amount of effort put forth but result is a disaster
3 - Buy a photography book and read it. Photographer is kind of trying but has a LOT to learn about how to use a camera and what to do with it
4 - Mediocre shot. I get it, I just don't care
5 - Not bad. Shows promise, but there is just something wrong that prevents it from being good
6 - Good. All fundamentals are in place and its slightly better than average
7 - Very good. Shows artistic creativity and is interesting to view
8 - Dang. Stands out from the rest and is a candidate to end up framed on the wall
9 - Holy crap. Incredible technical and artistic merit and should be hanging in a gallery.
10 - Inconceivable. As if God himself took the picture and angels sing when you see it.
Granted, this is a pretty rough framework with a lot of lattitude either way on any one photo, but its a place to start. As a result, I (almost) never give 1s and I never give 10s. My overall average vote cast is just over 5, which really isn't surprising given the abilities of the population of photographers (myself included) as a whole on this site - Not Bad But Could Stand To Improve. |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 10:57:00 AM · #48 |
| I must admit that people that hand out ones as if it were candy, i 'm sorry but I don't agree and actually drives me up the wall. Those people who do so have to realise that it s a scale from ONE to TEN. ten being the best and one sucking big time. If you have an average votes case of 1, 2 or 3....im sorry but you are unfair. the average of ten is 5, so i think that's what a photo should start at. you move up or down from there based all the criteria that other people before have mentionned. What's the point of giving the option to vote 10, if you start your vote at 1? THank about it. |
|
|
|
03/29/2006 10:58:22 AM · #49 |
Quite simply put - It's laziness! Too lazy to think beyond 1 & 10.
We as a community obviously disagree with your voting style.
|
|
|
|
03/29/2006 11:05:35 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by smyk:
the average of ten is 5, |
Worse still, the average on our scale - which doesn't include zero - is actually 5.5.
Anybody consistently voting VERY low ..... no, I'm not allowed to say it, I'll get it trouble. :-(
Message edited by author 2006-03-29 11:06:13. |
|
