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02/19/2006 05:42:56 PM · #1 |
God this Duotone thing is doing ma heid in!
I have a couple of cracking images but Duotoning them just kills them flat.
It'll take a strong will not to submit to this one. I have a great colour image that I really want to submit but it's just not looking right.
Boz
Steve |
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02/19/2006 06:03:09 PM · #2 |
| If its a great shot and you cant get it right, just enter it as a B @ W or sepia. Rules say thats cool. |
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02/19/2006 06:03:24 PM · #3 |
I'm having a tough time too. Not all images lend themselves to the duotone treatment and I'm trying to come up with something that screams for that one sizzling color.
...my brain is completely locked in blue but I think I have a cool red idea (could get me murdelized).
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02/19/2006 07:30:39 PM · #4 |
I think a straight B&W will get slammed, voters will want colour as in PAdrix's excellent image.
Just MHO
Steve |
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02/19/2006 07:36:25 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Tallbloke:
I think a straight B&W will get slammed, voters will want colour as in PAdrix's excellent image.
Just MHO
Steve |
I hope not B&W is duotone and stated in the challenge description. |
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02/19/2006 07:38:09 PM · #6 |
The winner of the first duotone challenge
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02/19/2006 08:02:25 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by keegbow:
I hope not B&W is duotone and stated in the challenge description. |
You know, I reread the description and wonder if what they were getting at was was the two tones in the ONE EXAMPLE were (black/white (really meant to be "black") and sepia). In other words, the description did not describe two different pictures (a B&W and a sepia), but rather one picture (a picture using black and sepia as the two tones).
That being said, I will rate truly B&W pictures lower. This doesn't mean an automatic 3 or below, but rather I think my ceiling for B&W shots will be 7 or 8. I understand there is some confusion here and so will act with appropriate leeway. However, in photographic terms, a B&W is not a duotone. |
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02/19/2006 08:16:09 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
That being said, I will rate truly B&W pictures lower. |
When the challenge description explicitly includes B&W? |
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02/19/2006 08:35:55 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
That being said, I will rate truly B&W pictures lower. |
When the challenge description explicitly includes B&W? |
You didn't read my post close enough. I think the challenge description was not actually including B&W but inarticulately describing the second ink in a sepia.
Sepia = Black/white + sepia
It doesn't make much sense that B&W would be included in the term duotone. However, I agree the wording is confusing and that is why I am merely limiting my ceiling on B&W shots rather than giving them a DNMC vote.
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02/19/2006 08:40:26 PM · #10 |
I was going to use this one but realized it was shot 3 days too early
Message edited by author 2006-02-19 20:41:04.
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02/19/2006 08:42:20 PM · #11 |
Challenge Description: "Your submission should only consist of two tones (black/white, sepia, etc)."
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02/19/2006 08:42:49 PM · #12 |
| gorgeous photo and kids rex... |
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02/19/2006 08:43:40 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
gorgeous photo and kids rex... |
Thank you.
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02/19/2006 08:44:05 PM · #14 |
Forgot to mention...we've beat this up fairly well once already. ;^)
Duotone wording...
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02/19/2006 08:48:35 PM · #15 |
Ya, I read that whole post, but that was what changed my mind (and caused me to learn a bit for myself).
I'd be happy to reconsider if someone could provide one of the following:
1) The two tones which exist in a grayscale picture.
2) The person who wrote the description telling me they wanted to include B&W photos.
Until then, I've stated my voting style and I'm sticking to it. |
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02/19/2006 08:57:36 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
That being said, I will rate truly B&W pictures lower. |
When the challenge description explicitly includes B&W? |
You didn't read my post close enough. I think the challenge description was not actually including B&W but inarticulately describing the second ink in a sepia.
Sepia = Black/white + sepia
It doesn't make much sense that B&W would be included in the term duotone. However, I agree the wording is confusing and that is why I am merely limiting my ceiling on B&W shots rather than giving them a DNMC vote. |
I think the term traditionally includes both B&W and toned prints -- remember that a true "duotone" is an offset printing process and not a photographic process at all. Personally, I think you should go with what they said, and not what you think they meant to say. I believe the intent was to include the equivalent of B&W prints, with or without toning of the paper. |
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02/19/2006 09:03:13 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I think the term traditionally includes both B&W and toned prints |
I'm not picking and chosing here. These are the top definitions for "duotone" from googling "definition of duotone"
1) Two-color halftone reproduction from black-and-white original.
2) a term for a two-color halftone reproduction from a one-color photograph.
3) When a photograph is printed using two ink colors it is a duotone. The most common color combinations are black plus a color, but 'duotones' can be created using two PMS ink colors.
4) A two-color halftone image created with two screens, two plates, and two colors.
I don't see anything about B&W and, in fact, a B&W would contradict all four definitions.
Originally posted by generalE:
Personally, I think you should go with what they said, and not what you think they meant to say. I believe the intent was to include the equivalent of B&W prints, with or without toning of the paper. |
That's sorta funny General. :) You tell me to go with what they say and then say "I believe the intent". You get my point? |
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02/19/2006 09:13:08 PM · #18 |
| You know, thats what gives me a sour taste about this Site. It clearly says one thing in the Definition, then we have forum posts saying something else. The Challenge discription Clearly states B/W or Sepia yet thats now a DNMC to some. The Sad part is people who are not regular forum readers get blasted by DNMC voters who 'Decide' based on forum posts the interpretation of a challenge.. Sad I tell ya.. |
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02/19/2006 09:14:44 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
That's sorta funny General. :) You tell me to go with what they say and then say "I believe the intent". You get my point? |
Yup. Notice that your definitions refer to offset printing processes -- nothing to do with traditional photography. They are attempts to reproduce by non-photographic means what photographers produce with B&W paper and various chemical treatments.
Ultimately, what's the purpose of applying an arbitrarily narrow definition to lower scores of what you admit would otherwise be higher-rated photos? If the challenge description says B&W I don't see where you're in any position to say a B&W photo need be scored lower for merely not meeting the challenge definition; it just doesn't make much sense to me to punish people for following the rules in good faith.
Message edited by author 2006-02-19 21:15:20. |
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02/19/2006 09:18:21 PM · #20 |
OK, hold your horses. Did I say DNMC? I said I wouldn't rate a B&W higher than an 8. That's a big difference.
To try to convey the confusion I think the description is causing, look at this pretend challenge:
Round Shoot a picture of something round (circles, triangles, balls, spheres).
There are people who say "well, triangle is included, so it's fine". There are other people who say "triangle is obviously not round and it must be a mistake, it's not fine." I'm trying to come up with a compromise. "Triangles are obviously not round, but since it's listed, I'm going to vote them normally. However, my preference for things will limit their ceiling to keep them from a 9 or 10 score."
Make more sense? |
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02/19/2006 09:21:26 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by MQuinn:
You know, thats what gives me a sour taste about this Site. It clearly says one thing in the Definition, then we have forum posts saying something else. The Challenge discription Clearly states B/W or Sepia yet thats now a DNMC to some. The Sad part is people who are not regular forum readers get blasted by DNMC voters who 'Decide' based on forum posts the interpretation of a challenge.. Sad I tell ya.. |
I agree. The challenge specifically says b/w and sepia are valid duotone images. Whether they are or aren't in real life is irrelevant to this challenge. If people have a problem with the definition applied to duotone then that should be taken up with the person that created the challenge and not penalize the contestants.
Message edited by author 2006-02-19 21:22:57. |
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02/19/2006 09:21:49 PM · #22 |
| Tell you what General, let me know who wrote the description. Was it Langdon? Did someone else suggest it online? I'll send them a PM, if they tell me they want B&W to be fine, then I'm ok (even if I technically disagree). Personally, I wanted to submit my own pic as B&W, but didn't think it met the spirit of the challenge. |
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02/19/2006 09:26:02 PM · #23 |
DrAchoo, why do you think they meant something different than what they wrote as the challenge description?
"Your submission should only consist of two tones (black/white, sepia, etc)."
It doesn't say "black/white + sepia" but rather "black/white, sepia, etc". That's clearly a list of different examples hence the use of the commas.
Message edited by author 2006-02-19 21:26:31. |
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02/19/2006 09:29:00 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Tell you what General, let me know who wrote the description. Was it Langdon? Did someone else suggest it online? I'll send them a PM, if they tell me they want B&W to be fine, then I'm ok (even if I technically disagree). Personally, I wanted to submit my own pic as B&W, but didn't think it met the spirit of the challenge. |
While looking at 'Duotones' in PSCS, the presets, there is a whole folder full of Grey/Black Duotone presets. Going by that I would say that B/Ws are OK for the challenge, rating the lower would be rather petty IMO.
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02/19/2006 09:31:12 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Tell you what General, let me know who wrote the description. Was it Langdon? Did someone else suggest it online? I'll send them a PM, if they tell me they want B&W to be fine, then I'm ok (even if I technically disagree). Personally, I wanted to submit my own pic as B&W, but didn't think it met the spirit of the challenge. |
I don't know, and I guess it's not that big a deal. I'm sorry you didn't feel comfortable sumbitting your entry in what you consider the best presentation, merely for fear that a substantial number of others will feel as strongly as you do about B&W not meeting the spirit of the challenge.
I hope you post both versions afterwards so we can have a discussion of the pros and cons of each method of reproduction. |
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