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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> US marine kills Romanian bass player
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 02/03/2006 12:56:54 PM · #1
Two years ago an US marine killed a famous Romanian bass player in a terrible car accident. Here is the final result:
//www.jurnalul.ro/articol_45283/shock_after_american_court_ruled_us_marine_not_guilty_of_killing_romanian_bass_player.html

Just want to know how do you feel about the courts decision.
 02/03/2006 12:58:46 PM · #2
That is some appaulingly bad trial work on the part of the prosecutors. They should not be allowed in a courtroom.

I cannot blame the court for this decision if that article is correct and the prosecutors failed to prove such vital elements like the victim's location and to fail to call witnesses as to the accident with respect to the victim being in the struck taxi? What choice, it appears, did the court have but in acquittal? Its just horrid advocacy.

Message edited by author 2006-02-03 13:02:21.
 02/03/2006 01:00:33 PM · #3
Thats a pretty sad story.
 02/03/2006 01:10:41 PM · #4
wow.
 02/03/2006 01:12:15 PM · #5
It is a sad story, but the prosecution did not prove it's case. If they can't prove that the deceased was involved in the collision, then the court could not convict the driver of killing him. I agree with Frisca that the prosecuting attorney is entirely to blame IF it was a wrongful aquittal.

I do notice that the wrier of the article took it as a given that the Marine was guilty, despite the verdict.
 02/03/2006 01:25:06 PM · #6
If you have a US military prosecution and a US military defence then there was only going to be one outcome.

Fact is the US takes care of its own, whether he is a murderer or not. The fact that they cheated the Romanians out of a fair trial in Romania speaks volumes.

Can you imaging a Romanian soldier killing a US citizen and the Romanian military shipping the soldier home to face a court martial that lets him off. There would be outrage in the US!
 02/03/2006 01:26:37 PM · #7
Originally posted by LoveSpuds:
If you have a US military prosecution and a US military defence then there was only going to be one outcome.


That's just not true, I'm sorry.
 02/03/2006 01:31:13 PM · #8
Originally posted by LoveSpuds:
If you have a US military prosecution and a US military defence then there was only going to be one outcome.

Fact is the US takes care of its own, whether he is a murderer or not. The fact that they cheated the Romanians out of a fair trial in Romania speaks volumes.

Can you imaging a Romanian soldier killing a US citizen and the Romanian military shipping the soldier home to face a court martial that lets him off. There would be outrage in the US!


Actually that is exactly what would/should happen. A friendly military performing duties in the US that has a member commit a crime would have that military member sent home to face Military Tribunal.

US Military Tribunals are notorious (At least from everything that I have read) for crapping on justice. I am very ashamed of the way in which the US Military has often handled itsself in cases like this.
 02/03/2006 01:33:41 PM · #9
Originally posted by LoveSpuds:

Can you imaging a Romanian soldier killing a US citizen and the Romanian military shipping the soldier home to face a court martial that lets him off. There would be outrage in the US!


Actually, yes I can. Have you ever heard of diplomatic immunity? As that Marine was a part of an anti-terrorist special operations group, I will gaurantee the US is not going to let a foreign country hold him, even awaiting trail.
I can also attest to the zealousness of military Judge Advocates General prosecuting cases.
 02/03/2006 01:47:46 PM · #10
I don't want to start slating Americans, I beleive most Americans are decent and intelligent people. But I have no faith at all in the American Government or justice system.

I am sure that I will get flamed for this but there is a good reason why the American Government are mistrusted the world over, and its because of double standards like this.

The world loves the ideals that the American public believe and stand for, but this ideal has been ruined by a corrupt American government and giant American corporations.

In this instance I can appreciate that the Americans want a fair trial for an american citizen, but what makes them think that the Romanian Justice system wouldn't offer this. They always assume that the Americans are the only ones capable of dealing with anything and all they are doing is putting their interests first

Message edited by author 2006-02-03 13:58:55.
 02/03/2006 02:16:57 PM · #11
Originally posted by LoveSpuds:
I don't want to start slating Americans, I beleive most Americans are decent and intelligent people. But I have no faith at all in the American Government or justice system.

I am sure that I will get flamed for this but there is a good reason why the American Government are mistrusted the world over, and its because of double standards like this.

The world loves the ideals that the American public believe and stand for, but this ideal has been ruined by a corrupt American government and giant American corporations.

In this instance I can appreciate that the Americans want a fair trial for an american citizen, but what makes them think that the Romanian Justice system wouldn't offer this. They always assume that the Americans are the only ones capable of dealing with anything and all they are doing is putting their interests first


well said
 02/03/2006 02:22:02 PM · #12
Originally posted by LoveSpuds:
...what makes them think that the Romanian Justice system wouldn't offer this. They always assume that the Americans are the only ones capable of dealing with anything and all they are doing is putting their interests first


I don't want to start a flame war either, or get this moved to rants, but it's the same reason that senior US officers will not be tried for war crimes at the Hague. A serviceman, any serviceman while abroad as a part of his duty should be guaranteed the same rights to a fair trial as if he were home. I am no expert on the Romanian judicial system, and I'm certain I don't want a crash course standing tall in front of a judge.


02/03/2006 02:25:00 PM · #13
I believe if you would like to blame someone, blame the Romanian government for signing a treaty which prevents American military personnel from being tried for crimes committed on Romanian soil. If a Romanian soldier had committed such a crime on US soil what would have happened?
02/03/2006 02:34:40 PM · #14
Anyone recall the hotdog piolt who was flying against regs, too low and in a no fly zone, who cut the cable on a gondola at an Italian ski resort a few years ago? As I recall he killed a few dozen and walked away from the trail with a slap on the wrist. The risks inherent in a military operation and allowing criminal stupidity to go unpunished are clearly blurred in these military courts.
02/03/2006 02:41:51 PM · #15
Originally posted by LoveSpuds:
I don't want to start slating Americans, I beleive most Americans are decent and intelligent people. But I have no faith at all in the American Government or justice system.

I am sure that I will get flamed for this but there is a good reason why the American Government are mistrusted the world over, and its because of double standards like this.

The world loves the ideals that the American public believe and stand for, but this ideal has been ruined by a corrupt American government and giant American corporations.

In this instance I can appreciate that the Americans want a fair trial for an american citizen, but what makes them think that the Romanian Justice system wouldn't offer this. They always assume that the Americans are the only ones capable of dealing with anything and all they are doing is putting their interests first


It is sad to say that this is more true than not. We can not ignore the rest of the world and how it perceives us. We can not hide behind the âterrorismâ issue. We have the reputation we have for a reason and we can not hide our head in the sand and ignore that it has not always been this way. Hopefully there will be a time when we regain the respect of the world.

What is probably important here is to remember that the US Judicial system is not the Military judicial system. They are very different and I would hope we are not judged solely based on them.

On the surface this case seems to have been mishandled immensely by the defense team and / or the accused was protected by his own. You are not exactly going to get a fair shake if you have a case against a Marine in Quantico. But we do not know the whole story but only one side. As unjust as it may seem Iâd hate to make a firm judgment without knowing all the facts.

Message edited by author 2006-02-03 14:42:09.
 02/03/2006 02:47:47 PM · #16
Originally posted by nsbca7:
I believe if you would like to blame someone, blame the Romanian government for signing a treaty which prevents American military personnel from being tried for crimes committed on Romanian soil. If a Romanian soldier had committed such a crime on US soil what would have happened?


The Romanian Soldier would have been sent right home to a Romanian Military Tribunal or other Romanian Court.
 02/03/2006 03:02:23 PM · #17
Originally posted by Nelzie:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
I believe if you would like to blame someone, blame the Romanian government for signing a treaty which prevents American military personnel from being tried for crimes committed on Romanian soil. If a Romanian soldier had committed such a crime on US soil what would have happened?


The Romanian Soldier would have been sent right home to a Romanian Military Tribunal or other Romanian Court.


.....and the Romanian soldier would have been found guilty and locked up
 02/03/2006 05:01:24 PM · #18
In a recent case, Japan has just demanded and won the right to try US soldiers who commit crimes in that country.
02/03/2006 05:14:41 PM · #19
Originally posted by LoveSpuds:
Originally posted by Nelzie:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
I believe if you would like to blame someone, blame the Romanian government for signing a treaty which prevents American military personnel from being tried for crimes committed on Romanian soil. If a Romanian soldier had committed such a crime on US soil what would have happened?


The Romanian Soldier would have been sent right home to a Romanian Military Tribunal or other Romanian Court.


.....and the Romanian soldier would have been found guilty and locked up


And prescient as well? Or are you just automatically assuming that because that Marine was accused of a crime, he was guilty? Last time I checked, neither the US criminal justice system, nor the Uniform Code of Military Justice operated on the Napoleonic system. What happened to innocent until proven guilty...out the window because the prosecution failed to present an appropriate case?

edit to add this link which will clearly explain why SSGT van Goethem was not tried in Romania. He does in fact have diplomatic immunity. To compare apples to apples, many foreign diplomats have commited crimes in the US, including rape and murder, only to be sent home. The majority of those individuals are wealthy and powerful in their own country, and never see a trial.

Message edited by author 2006-02-03 17:22:43.
 02/03/2006 06:24:33 PM · #20
Where in the article does it say the prosecution and/or defense were even military anyway? I know that it says military court, but I would think that for damn sure someone representing Peter would have been on the prosecution...ya think.
Along that diplomatic immunity thing also, along with rape and murder (the worst) down to parking tickets (billions of dollars worth).
 02/03/2006 06:37:16 PM · #21
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Where in the article does it say the prosecution and/or defense were even military anyway? I know that it says military court, but I would think that for damn sure someone representing Peter would have been on the prosecution...ya think.


He was tried in a military court. Military prosecutor, judge, defense attorney, defendant and apparently witnesses (as none of the Romanian witnesses showed up, or perhaps none were notified or allowed visas)
 02/03/2006 07:04:48 PM · #22
The Romanian government will support the whole expense(visa,trip to the US,etc.) so that Peter's relatives will sue the marine in a civil court.It's the last chance they've got to make justice.
 02/03/2006 07:17:12 PM · #23
The true face of 'Justice'..., not the truth but the 'truth' that can be portraid. Justice is truely blind in swinging her sword.

I know, I played that game well. Sad but true.

Message edited by author 2006-02-03 19:54:08.
 02/03/2006 08:31:24 PM · #24
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
As unjust as it may seem Iâd hate to make a firm judgment without knowing all the facts.


Why let the facts get in the way of anything? It is far easier to argue when you are not burdened by facts.
 02/03/2006 08:43:35 PM · #25
Originally posted by dpdave:


Or are you just automatically assuming that because that Marine was accused of a crime, he was guilty? Last time I checked, neither the US criminal justice system, nor the Uniform Code of Military Justice operated on the Napoleonic system. What happened to innocent until proven guilty

To compare apples to apples, many foreign diplomats have commited crimes in the US, including rape and murder, only to be sent home.


What a great contradictory statement you have made here.

You are right the US Marine is accused of crime not guilty of a crime but on the same hand you have stated that foreign diplomats have commited crimes in the US, are they not afforded the same innocence until proven guilty rights that you demand for the US Marine ?
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