Singled Out results versus comments

01/23/2006 12:34:04 AM · #1

Thanks for all the encouraging comments during this challenge, I really got my hopes up. I tried to meet the challenge description and thought I did so. None of these comments said otherwise and the DOF was totally done prior to post processing. So now that it's over I feel totally let down and I would greatly appreciate constructive criticism. What is wrong with this photo for this challenge and/or what would have made it better for this challenge?

I'm also curious if the image below, which was my first choice before I thought more about the detail "candid", would have faired better.

01/23/2006 12:53:17 AM · #2

The focus doesn't seem to be quite spot-on, which is a kiss of death for high scores in soemthing like this. There's not much compositonal "oomph" either, the overall framing seems accidental. Hypotheticslly, if the man and his canine companion were thrusting a bit in FRONT of the crowd it might pop better; I especially miss seeing the dog's nose. 34th isn't a bad result regardless :-)

R.

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

01/23/2006 12:59:47 AM · #3

I loved your image and gave it a 10. You framed your subject perfectly whether by accident or not this helped isolate him and to me the focus on the subject was fine.
You met every critera set out in the challenge description which a lot of images didn't and I believe you should have finished higher.

01/23/2006 12:59:56 AM · #4

To Bear Music:

Thank you very much for replying. The focus is "spot-on" the spots on his forehead. The dog is out of focus because my DOF is so shallow. The framing was purposeful, but difficult. I wanted the crowd in the foreground as well as the background to really demonstrate the skills required to 'single' him out. I walked over a block, and took about 20 shots to get him IN the crowd and not looking at me. How candid is the shot when the subject is looking directly into your CCD?!?

Message edited by author 2006-01-23 01:00:43.

01/23/2006 01:03:15 AM · #5

To keegbow:

Thank you also for replying and thanks for the 10.

I don't want to sound like a whiner, but I would like to hear from those who voted this lower. What would they have liked to see differently?

01/23/2006 01:05:50 AM · #6

Originally posted by yakatme:

It's perfectly possible to shoot a great candid at the instant the subject becomes aware you have singled him/her out (see the blue ribbon shot) because that moment of recognition is a truly "candid" instanht. But anyway I was not suggesting that for your image. I beg pardon for being so wrong and I won't bug you anymore. You did ask, and I gave an honest response.

R.

01/23/2006 01:09:29 AM · #7

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by yakatme:
To Bear Music:

Thank you very much for replying. The focus is "spot-on" the spots on his forehead. The dog is out of focus because my DOF is so shallow. The framing was purposeful, but difficult. I wanted the crowd in the foreground as well as the background to really demonstrate the skills required to 'single' him out. I walked over a block, and took about 20 shots to get him IN the crowd and not looking at me. How candid is the shot when the subject is looking directly into your CCD?!?

It's perfectly possible to shoot a great candid at the instant the subject becomes aware you have singled him/her out (see the blue ribbon shot) because that moment of recognition is a truly "candid" instanht. But anyway I was not suggesting that for your image. I beg pardon for being so wrong and I won't bug you anymore. You did ask, and I gave an honest response.

R.

You seem to take offense at my reply to your comments. Please don't, I truly didn't intend it to be offensive and you weren't bugging me. You're right, I did ask and I greatly appreciate your remarks.

01/23/2006 01:14:20 AM · #8

I'm sorry, I seem to be cranky right now. It did seem to me that you were "refuting" each of my suggestions, which seems pointless to me. Maybe it's just me.

R.

fotomann_forever

01/23/2006 01:17:44 AM · #9

uh oh watch out grumpy Bears can be dangerous ;-)

01/23/2006 01:20:37 AM · #10

Actuallly, disappointment led to crankiness on my side. That's why I felt compelled to voice what I thought my entry was shouting. I'll try not to take it this hard anymore.

fotomann_forever

01/23/2006 01:27:59 AM · #11

To be honest, I believe your first choice would have been better. The framing is more simplistic and it's less cluttered. And, it's just more interesting. I believe it would have scored quite a bit better.

01/23/2006 01:35:20 AM · #12

Thanks fotomann forever.

I actually did enter this photo and then replaced after concern that the subject would be considered acting instead of candid. Maybe I read too much into the challenge details and over analyzed my choice.

01/23/2006 01:53:09 AM · #13

I'd agree with that; the mime (?) is a MUCH stronger image in every way IMO.

R.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/23/2006 07:03:14 AM · #14

bump for the morning voters

dahkota

Canon EOS-7D

01/23/2006 07:16:49 AM · #15

I gave your entry a 6 and would have given your alternate an 8. Why?

In your entry, my eyes go first to the old man, then the dog, then the man to the right then the person on the left then to the background. The man is the focus of the image, but not so singled out.

The first place finisher is singled out by eye contact - very powerful draw. The 2nd place is by filling the frame - also powerful. The third place, by difference in appearance and centering. While your entry is centered, in focus, and slightly different, it exhibits none of these strongly enough to grab my undivided attention.

Your alternate is stong - interesting subject, centered, in focus. The costume gives it that extra push to really single him out.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

01/23/2006 07:29:46 AM · #16

Thanks dahkota. I appreciate your feedback.

pawdrix

Nikon D700

01/23/2006 09:58:45 AM · #17

I miss interpreted the Challenge a bit. I thought that the subject needed to be "in" the crowd and isolated somewhat, by a shallowish depth of field and not out front...so to speak. Which for me, was a bitch to do.

I had so many nice candid options that I didn't take or use where my subject was in front of a crowd shot at 2.8f that I thought would get DNMCed to death. I also found that taking candids at a distance using f2.8 didn't create enough blur to isolate.
...what a loss.

Yakatme-I like your outake better. The subject has greater interest.

Message edited by author 2006-01-23 10:37:29.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/23/2006 12:33:03 PM · #18

Originally posted by pawdrix:

That's exactly how I interpreted the challenge also, and I still do. And yes, it was a bitch, but I wanted to stick to the challenge details as much as possible.

I, too, passed up shots in which the subject was in front of the crowd and then it was difficult to ensure that the subject was not blocked by the crowd when I released the shutter. As one commenter noted, the dog's nose is cut off (but he wasn't exactly the subject, though I wish I had gotten it in the pic), it was difficult.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

dragonlady

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

01/23/2006 12:37:43 PM · #19

I believe the original was a better choice..somehow the man with the dog seems lost in the crowd rather than singled out.

ajschel

Fujifilm FinePix X100S

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

01/23/2006 12:46:41 PM · #20

I also seem to have interpreted the challenge more literally by making sure there were people in front of and behind my subject, which I agree is hard to do.

Got some comments about poor composition as well, which I find a bit strange since there's not much composing possible when shooting crowds of people. I tried to use the rule of thirds nonetheless ;-)

I am very happy with my 28th place, and your 34th is very good as well. IMO your first choice would have been a better entry, but I don't think it would have scored better, because of the large blurred foreground.

I like bot of your pictures a lot, your entry was one of my favourites for the challenge. The winning picture is absolutely beautiful, I think, BTW.

livitup

Nikon D70

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

01/23/2006 01:20:13 PM · #21

I didn't vote this challenge, but...

I wouldn't have given the blue a 10 because it did not use DOF, which the challenge specifically called for. It's a GREAT photo, but not (IN MY OPINION) right for this challenge.

However, one lesson can be taken from that shot... elevation. I think if your shot was taken from a slight elevation it would have added a lot to the shot. As it is, you get a bit of a claustrophobic "trapped in the crowd" feeling from your shot.

My $.02

ajschel

Fujifilm FinePix X100S

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

01/23/2006 01:32:24 PM · #22

That is a very good observation... nice $.02!

pawdrix

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

01/23/2006 01:39:38 PM · #23

Originally posted by livitup:

I wouldn't have given the blue a 10 because it did not use DOF, which the challenge specifically called for. It's a GREAT photo, but not (IN MY OPINION) right for this challenge.
My $.02

I agree...I think the Blue is a 12 but not for this Challenge...awesome image...but the lack of discernable difference in dof use, is a major element that was short, odd for the top place.

Still a very, cool image...

fotomann_forever

01/23/2006 01:47:43 PM · #24

To be honest, and in all due respect to those that disagree, I believe the Blue Ribbon absolutely earned its place.

1) considering it was shot with a P&S camera, DoF was maxed out to its fullest. Was a major accomplishment for a lens that won't go to f/2.8 to achieve "singling out" of this quality.

2) There are a lot of people in that crowd. To capture that one person and bring him to the center as a very STRONG subject was either sure luck or creative genious.

3) The photog, almost perfectly framed his subject and was well within the Challenge specs. The use of Shallow DoF was a suggestion, NOT a requirement and the photog of the blue pushed his camera to its limits and captured not only a ribbon, but a very NICe image.

Message edited by author 2006-01-23 13:53:25.