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01/10/2006 12:03:15 AM · #201 |
Originally posted by dpaull:
Originally posted by C Novack:
Originally posted by dpaull:
Originally posted by C Novack:
DPC has a prints program that pays the artists 50% profit from their sale. Well where does the other 50% go?!?!?!?!
- How does the printers get paid? How do they pay for all the ink, toner, paper supplies that is used every time a print is ordered? That stuff and skill does NOT come cheap. Undoubtably some of that other 50% goes to paying for that stuff -
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You're wrong.
Say you sell a print for $20.00 -- and that print COSTS $3.50 to be printed...the amount that gets split is $16.50 -- $8.25 to you and $8.25 to the owner(s)...I am not saying that is not fair...are there higher paying places out there? certainly...if you chooose to sell your prints at dpcprints and accept that somewhat-low payout, that's up to you.
Anyway, if you don't understand how DPC prints works, don't pretend like you know...if you want help in understanding, I believe there is a DPC prints forum (or if there isn't, then there should be)...but either way, start your own thread. |
In response to your statement in "if you chooose to sell your prints at dpcprints and accept that somewhat-low payout, that's up to you.
" I do not consider the payout low. In fact it is a pretty decent rate compared to others. Zazzle has the lowest average of paying out an artist commision on sales -they pay out the artist a 10% earning - AND YOU CANNOT SET YOUR OWN PRICES. It is a flat price across the board for different print sizes.
On another statement that you make:
"and that print COSTS $3.50" Are you also taking into account the skill of the printers that print out these materials into that cost? And you never countered my argument about the fact that some of that money earned MAY be shuttled BACK into maintaining and running the site. (here is another question to consider just how much prints DO they end up selling here at DPC? - It may not be enough)
Lastly I noticed that you did not tackle any other points that I made but zeroed in on my statments about the Prints program.
And I must point out that making a statement "Anyway, if you don't understand how DPC prints works, don't pretend like you know...if you want help in understanding, I believe there is a DPC prints forum (or if there isn't, then there should be)...but either way, start your own thread." does little to help others understand your point of view or rally to your cause if you are going to attack them. Yes, you may disagree on one or several points made BUT there are ways to state your opinion without resorting to hostile statements that do nothing to promote healthy discourse. |
OK lol...one more post, but this is it, I swear. Look lady, get your own thread. You are obviously confused as to how DPC prints works. START YOUR OWN THREAD. they send the files out to be printed...so yes, the price of $3.50 is the cost OF EVERYTHING INVOLVED IN THE PRINTING PROCESS of the actual image. Sheesh...get a clue and get your own thread. |
It is quite evident by this discourse that you are not open to any open discussion on any other points I made aside from the narrow issue of the prints program. Your combative manner of speaking ends up going nowhere in the end so I will not endevour to further the discussion. End of line. |
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01/10/2006 12:10:18 AM · #202 |
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
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That's so funny.
LMAO |
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01/10/2006 12:18:05 AM · #203 |
Dave-are you just majorly bored or what man? Sorry man, but it's just like really, just the way you're coming off here. If you travel way back to the beginnings of this thread, maybe you were starting off with something that you really felt, but it's just your demeanor and presentation just quickly, really quickly, turns the whole thing into a big pissing contest. I'm sure it can't be done, but try just relaxing, clearing your mind and detach from yourself and go back over this thread trying to look as an outsider, perhaps you'd see what I mean?
Even a few people input some support, but it just get's lost in all the muck. The credibility just seems to get totally blown, and no wonder it is not at all well received to even discuss.
I hear repeatedly the mention that there is a number of people sharing this same general opinion(s) and do not chime in for varying reasons. This obvious is opinion, and it is MY opinion that there is a vast greater number that don't chime in due to not perceiving the same 'issues'. I won't go into detailed debate on the various 'points', they have been hashed to death here I think.
I do think SC has a tough, most times thankless job, and I think they do very well at it.
Also, one last thing. As far as your remarks about Toocool, I feel you're offbase. Yes, I'm sure you probably know (as do probably most folks here) that he and I are best friends, have been for about a million and three years, but that is why I know you are off the mark and why I will butt in. Ron has been a member here for several years, he turned me onto DPC, and I know the passion he has for the site, and for photography. Ron has been involved in serious debate with SC and members on several topics in the past. I'm sure you've been around long enough to see it before. He has seen dq's, different opinions and has never held back on voicing it and debating those differences, even when not quite favorable. True also in real life, certainly over the years, Ron and I have not always seen things the exact same way, and believe me, no fear in standing and stating what we believe. To call him a 'coward', is IMO, quite 'cowardly'.
Seriously man, you are a great photog, and I've seen you be quite helpful to people, but your conduct here just leaves a lot to be desired IN MY OPINION. |
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01/10/2006 12:20:30 AM · #204 |
Originally posted by achiral:
...it just looks bad on site council to even consider responding to stuff like this with the kind of sarcasm and patronization that can be so easy to do with a keyboard, brain, and 5 seconds...all i'm asking for is a little more class. |
Agreed. All of the sarcasm back and forth (and not just SC, by everyone) really bugs me. Let's at least try to have a mature, healthy discussion and not resort to such rudeness.
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01/10/2006 12:25:41 AM · #205 |
Originally posted by justin_hewlett:
Originally posted by achiral:
...it just looks bad on site council to even consider responding to stuff like this with the kind of sarcasm and patronization that can be so easy to do with a keyboard, brain, and 5 seconds...all i'm asking for is a little more class. |
Agreed. All of the sarcasm back and forth (and not just SC, by everyone) really bugs me. Let's at least try to have a mature, healthy discussion and not resort to such rudeness. |
Sometimes it's not so much sarcasm as an attempt to diffuse situations by trying to laugh a bit.
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01/10/2006 12:28:05 AM · #206 |
Originally posted by ursula:
Originally posted by justin_hewlett:
Originally posted by achiral:
...it just looks bad on site council to even consider responding to stuff like this with the kind of sarcasm and patronization that can be so easy to do with a keyboard, brain, and 5 seconds...all i'm asking for is a little more class. |
Agreed. All of the sarcasm back and forth (and not just SC, by everyone) really bugs me. Let's at least try to have a mature, healthy discussion and not resort to such rudeness. |
Sometimes it's not so much sarcasm as an attempt to diffuse situations by trying to laugh a bit. |
But I'll bet feelings are often hurt, even if only once in a while. Not worth it IMO.
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01/10/2006 12:28:57 AM · #207 |
| I vote we have Strong Bad as the new head of the SC. |
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01/10/2006 12:32:34 AM · #208 |
There are many ideas being presented here which can indeed make DPC a better place. It is rather strange, in reading the D&L description of the S/C, as presented by Bobsterlobster above, it never dawned on me that the S/C as a group is really representing me. I look at them as the tier right before D&L sort of to support their wishes on the running of the site. They are quick to point out that our membership is subject to cancellation at will. While this is true, this certainly is no way to make one feel welcome. They also speak of how much it cost to run the site and what do we expect from the pittance we pay. This is simply not good business/client relations. Understand that not all s/c members have expressed this, but several have and we have no choice from the vantage point of the member to view it as company policy.
Again, I do not question the s/c integrity and I praise they effort they put in to keep the place running, but it appears that most suggestion to improve the site is met with a lot of resistance. Then suddenly you are being inundated with three or four S/C on your case. Some are level headed but others fly off the handle too quick.
Then you have this open argument as to what constitutes an attribute. Should not the s/c be on the same page when it comes to rules and the jargon of photography?
So, yes, there is some confusion but that is to be expected when a site grows and the s/c remains headless.
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The truth is that this is a private site. The members have no say as to how it is run. We certainly do not have the right to question any of these private matters.
I just see it as a better place if members had some form of representation. Right now, as described above, the S/C is an inbred group that selects their own members. Each one behaves as an independent contractor since there is no head. I just do not think that this is the way to go. Yes, I have already been told that my ideas are bad. I can accept that.
There is also a trap that many s/c fall for time and time again. They allow irrate members to get under their collar. It is obvious that there is a lot of dissatisfaction because of the high member rate and then situations which take place which leave one party unhappy. Is it not best to have one single s/c member attempt to defuse the anger of the member instead of simply doing battle?
You see, you can talk to me and if you make a stupid comment I will not answer you in kind. You have no power over me and my assumption, mad as you may be, is that you want to discuss something that you are masking with your anger. So I find a starting place to begin, like finding your grudge. Now, plain rudeness is not at all civil, but sometimes members feel they have been shafted and some go off the deep end. Read carefully the post and will understand that they are trying to say something and perhaps they chose the wrong openning and then somebody goaded them and the thread collapses into misunderstandings and name calling.
You can hate me but I think that this site has a lot of potential and a lot of talent that can be tapped to make it greater. But one of the first steps should be a little weight to the members. If there is a feeling that we are getting too much for nothing, then increase the rate but do make a member feel some value for their membership instead of "you guys are lucky, D&L can just close this place tomorrow or can terminate your memberships at will" This, in my opinion, is not the best way to go because even the innocent, those not actively involve, but reading the thread are turned off.
Now, do not take offense with this posting. The object should be to improve the site. Certainly, one can carry a conversation without loosing all of one's marbles. Amazing, as I prepare to press the post button I feel a sinking sensation that I am presenting views so unpopular that may get me suspended from the site. Sad, because I always felt that men/women of goodwill can discuss almost anything in a civil manner. I take my medicine quietly. lol
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01/10/2006 12:38:44 AM · #209 |
Whew, I can't believe I read this whole thread.... uhhhh...
Sometimes it amazes me that D&L are mature enough to stay out of these things. Persoanlly, if this were my site, I'd be ranting and raving about it and be quite ticked. I think it says a lot about them that they just let it roll.
BTW, I obviously like the way the site is run. Put a $25 check in the mail today Payable to Challenging Technologies, LLC. I had a run-in with SC not too long ago...a DQ on my first entry after a photographic "break". I must admit I was quite flustered with them then. But.... I'm over it. I actually LIKE pretty much all the SC and see them as doing a great job.
Anytime I have question, it's answered.
I made a mistake the other night in the forums and an SC helped me not to embarrass the other party.
Quite frankly SC's have more responsibility than any forum moderators I've ever seen. I've run forum sites and getting members to behave is quite hard. Sometimes getting moderators to behave is quite hard. I had to shut down forums on a local site I run because the site was getting close to libelous on many occasions.
And they do this all for free. Some spend a lot of time here and must have HUGE callasses on thier butts.
Message edited by author 2006-01-10 00:46:55.
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01/10/2006 12:43:45 AM · #210 |
this place is turning into DPReview.com like post and attitude.
lot of angry people who must argue just to argue. when you find yourself this angry and argumentative maybe its time to leave the PC turned off for a few days and try to understand why. Then ask is it really worth it.
I am directing this to every person who read this.
dont get me wrong I like a good heated debate from time to time, but this and other threads I have read lately are nothing more than anger.
James |
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01/10/2006 12:44:35 AM · #211 |
With you fotoman .. I can't believe I read the whole thread ... I can't believe anyone would want too really. It was interesting to see what kind of stuff gets thrown about. But crikey its now 6.43 pm and I need to edit my recipe pic again ... :)
SC and D&L do a great job, in what is sometimes extremely challenging circumstances (as proven in this thread) ... but I am glad of one thing .. they are human and show it ... cos anyone who represents my interests should be
Kari |
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01/10/2006 12:46:09 AM · #212 |
Originally posted by kari1:
With you fotoman .. I can't believe I read the whole thread ... I can't believe anyone would want too really. It was interesting to see what kind of stuff gets thrown about. But crikey its now 6.43 pm and I need to edit my recipe pic again ... :)
SC and D&L do a great job, in what is sometimes extremely challenging circumstances (as proven in this thread) ... but I am glad of one thing .. they are human and show it ... cos anyone who represents my interests should be
Kari |
:) from one human bean to another :) |
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01/10/2006 12:46:14 AM · #213 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Whew, I can't believe I read this whole thread.... uhhhh...
Sometimes it amazes me that D&L are mature enough to stay out of these things. Persoanlly, if this were my site, I'd be ranting and raving about it and be quite ticked. I thing it says a lot about them that they just let it roll.
BTW, I obviously like the way the site is run. Put a $25 check in the mail today Payable to Challenging Technologies, LLC. I had a run-in with SC not too long ago...a DQ on my first entry after a photographic "break". I must admit I was quite flustered with them then. But.... I'm over it. I actually LIKE pretty much all the SC and see them as doing a great job.
Anytime I have question, it's answered.
I made a mistake the other night in the forums and an SC helped me not to embarrass the other party.
Quite frankly SC's have more responsibility than any forum moderators I've ever seen. I've run forum sites and getting members to behave is quite hard. Sometimes getting moderators to behave is quite hard. I had to shut down forums on a local site I run because the site was getting close to libelous on many occasions.
And they do this all for free. Some spend a lot of time here and must have HUGE callasses on thier butts. |
Or just huge butts. ;) |
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01/10/2006 01:01:27 AM · #214 |
Look, what these threads are the most telling. Go back and read other similar threads and you will find the following:
Most people are happy with things as they are. This means the majority of members are satisfied. In all places that grow there is always a minority that for whatever reason, feel displaced. Another small percentage seeks to affectuate some change and then a tiny number are simply uncooth. This is generally the mixture.
However, not all who participate are angry.
Some people simply hate this type of discourse because they see nastiness being openly displayed. They see personal attacks. Yet, despite all the frequent bad manners, for which there is no excuse, there is a grain of truth running somewhere in the thread.
Yes, the very title of this thread is combative or is it a person who feels that he has been wronged unjustly and has had enough to lose it. Sometimes there are misunderstandings that leave one party crunched. I do not know the details but in a crowd so big there is always such fiery displays. I just hope that cooler heads prevail and less jabs are employed. |
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01/10/2006 01:01:52 AM · #215 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
.... Amazing, as I prepare to press the post button I feel a sinking sensation that I am presenting views so unpopular that may get me suspended from the site. Sad, because I always felt that men/women of goodwill can discuss almost anything in a civil manner. I take my medicine quietly. lol |
When one considers the level headed approach you have taken to present your argument, I cannot even begin to imagine your suffering the indignity of a suspension. You are absolutely right that anything that does not change becomes stagnant with time, and that the incredible growth this site has experienced will give rise to certain issues needing resolution.
I for one have no problem with people expressing their views, but can assure you that the initial presentation methods will quickly determine if I will participate in a discussion. The sad truth about what I have witnessed so far is that some of the discussion quickly degenerated, and what could have been a venue for the presentation of structured, well reasoned and presented arguments, fell by the wayside.
The sad part of the whole process is that I regretfully must admit that I have perused the contents of this thread for comical relief more than anything else.
By all means, we must take the time to review certain things on this site, but please, let us strive to embark on such undertakings in a structured manner, without the name calling and snide remarks.
I'm with you Dan... and I have always found that people would pay much closer attention when I whispered something, versus me yelling at them, and as a general rule... liked me better for it.
Ray |
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01/10/2006 01:03:19 AM · #216 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
Look, what these threads are the most telling. Go back and read other similar threads and you will find the following:
Most people are happy with things as they are. This means the majority of members are satisfied. In all places that grow there is always a minority that for whatever reason, feel displaced. Another small percentage seeks to affectuate some change and then a tiny number are simply uncooth. This is generally the mixture.
However, not all who participate are angry.
Some people simply hate this type of discourse because they see nastiness being openly displayed. They see personal attacks. Yet, despite all the frequent bad manners, for which there is no excuse, there is a grain of truth running somewhere in the thread.
Yes, the very title of this thread is combative or is it a person who feels that he has been wronged unjustly and has had enough to lose it. Sometimes there are misunderstandings that leave one party crunched. I do not know the details but in a crowd so big there is always such fiery displays. I just hope that cooler heads prevail and less jabs are employed. |
Touche! |
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01/10/2006 01:04:45 AM · #217 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
.... Amazing, as I prepare to press the post button I feel a sinking sensation that I am presenting views so unpopular that may get me suspended from the site. Sad, because I always felt that men/women of goodwill can discuss almost anything in a civil manner. I take my medicine quietly. lol |
When one considers the level headed approach you have taken to present your argument, I cannot even begin to imagine your suffering the indignity of a suspension. You are absolutely right that anything that does not change becomes stagnant with time, and that the incredible growth this site has experienced will give rise to certain issues needing resolution.
I for one have no problem with people expressing their views, but can assure you that the initial presentation methods will quickly determine if I will participate in a discussion. The sad truth about what I have witnessed so far is that some of the discussion quickly degenerated, and what could have been a venue for the presentation of structured, well reasoned and presented arguments, fell by the wayside.
The sad part of the whole process is that I regretfully must admit that I have perused the contents of this thread for comical relief more than anything else.
By all means, we must take the time to review certain things on this site, but please, let us strive to embark on such undertakings in a structured manner, without the name calling and snide remarks.
I'm with you Dan... and I have always found that people would pay much closer attention when I whispered something, versus me yelling at them, and as a general rule... liked me better for it.
Ray |
Touche! |
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01/10/2006 01:18:46 AM · #218 |
Originally posted by dpaull:
Originally posted by C Novack:
DPC has a prints program that pays the artists 50% profit from their sale. Well where does the other 50% go?!?!?!?!
- How does the printers get paid? How do they pay for all the ink, toner, paper supplies that is used every time a print is ordered? That stuff and skill does NOT come cheap. Undoubtably some of that other 50% goes to paying for that stuff -
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You're wrong.
Say you sell a print for $20.00 -- and that print COSTS $3.50 to be printed...the amount that gets split is $16.50 -- $8.25 to you and $8.25 to the owner(s)...I am not saying that is not fair...are there higher paying places out there? certainly...if you chooose to sell your prints at dpcprints and accept that somewhat-low payout, that's up to you.
Anyway, if you don't understand how DPC prints works, don't pretend like you know...if you want help in understanding, I believe there is a DPC prints forum (or if there isn't, then there should be)...but either way, start your own thread. |
Not quite -- 25% goes to the site and 25% goes to the referrer whose link brought the customer into the site. If you click on //generale.dpcprints.com I will collect a 25% commission on any print you buy, including my own, meaning the potential return is 75% of the net price for my own prints. Plus, I can make a substantial commission off the sale of other people's prints, even if the customer hates my own photos. The "printers" get theirs in the form of the "base" price. |
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01/10/2006 01:21:22 AM · #219 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
... I can tell you with confidence that every one of us is here with very pure intentions. |
You were doing so well until you got to the very last line! : ) |
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01/10/2006 01:27:11 AM · #220 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
25% goes to the site and 25% goes to the referrer whose link brought the customer into the site. If you click on //generale.dpcprints.com I will collect a 25% commission on any print you buy, including my own, meaning the potential return is 75% of the net price for my own prints. Plus, I can make a substantial commission off the sale of other people's prints, even if the customer hates my own photos. The "printers" get theirs in the form of the "base" price. |
ooOOOoooOOOoo..now we are talking. I can make money off the people that keep beating on me every week. Me Likey :-D |
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01/10/2006 01:33:14 AM · #221 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
There are many ideas being presented here which can indeed make DPC a better place. It is rather strange, in reading the D&L description of the S/C, as presented by Bobsterlobster above, it never dawned on me that the S/C as a group is really representing me. |
This is not quite right either ... our job is not so much to "represent you" to D&L as advocates, as to be their eyes and (virtual) ears to monitor the site and report to them on matterss with believe of interest and import. Their "day jobs" don't allow them to monitor the site that much, while there's almost always one or two SC members perusing around. For better or worse, this component of our role currently falls closer to that of the NSA than the ACLU ... |
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01/10/2006 01:34:20 AM · #222 |
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01/10/2006 02:11:17 AM · #223 |
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01/10/2006 02:15:37 AM · #224 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
25% goes to the site and 25% goes to the referrer whose link brought the customer into the site. If you click on //generale.dpcprints.com I will collect a 25% commission on any print you buy, including my own, meaning the potential return is 75% of the net price for my own prints. Plus, I can make a substantial commission off the sale of other people's prints, even if the customer hates my own photos. The "printers" get theirs in the form of the "base" price. |
ooOOOoooOOOoo..now we are talking. I can make money off the people that keep beating on me every week. Me Likey :-D |
Also note that you can order an unlimited number of your own prints at the base price and sell them for whatever you can get and keep all the money, but you'll need your own gallery, ordering system, and order fulfillment/shipping department. |
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01/10/2006 02:40:39 AM · #225 |
| I know when a SC opening comes available it is posted and you can apply. But my question is who makes the decision, SC or D&L? |
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