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01/04/2006 10:35:32 PM · #51 |
IMO, it didn't really meet the challenge. The title helped make me see it that way perhaps as I voted middle of the road on this because of that reason. I would of rather have seen this in the Best of 2005 challenge because I see it as a superb photo and it would of done even better probably. But, to end up in 12th spot after 400+ votes, it's where people wanted to put it and that's where it ends up! |
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01/04/2006 10:36:29 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by RayEthier: Originally posted by Konador: Originally posted by RayEthier: Originally posted by gibun: After all being said and done, the point remains..... the tribe has spoken, a good pic will score. |
That comment is akin to saying....everyone speeds.... so lets keep raising the speed limits till they are to scared to drive. |
How so? |
Let us start by the premise (bit of a stretch) that people actually read the guidelines. If no one follows the guidelines, why bother having them. When we no longer have any guidelines left, then we may find that the contest truly have no meaning, at least not in the sense that we have a pre-determined set of guidelines to adhere to.
When there are no longer any rules, the tribe will fall victim to anarchy.
Ray |
If that were true, everyone would be in agreement I'm sure. What I've seen is that in every challenge there are a few entries that are way off... so much so that one wonders if they entered the wrong challenge by mistake. Those entries can be discarded for sure. I for one tend to have more faith in the vast majority of members who enter challenge and simply assume that in they're own minds and hearts, they truly see a connection to the theme with their entry. Don't think it's a stretch to assume that. |
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01/04/2006 10:39:17 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by Megatherian:
soooo.... you think anything should be fair game in a challenge? |
Most photos that dont meet the challenge dont do well. So, yeah I think this was a fluke, and its not losing sleep over.
And, yeah peeps can enter anything they want. |
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01/04/2006 10:43:41 PM · #54 |
Let's clear something up, at least as far as my debate is concerned, the image placed where it did and I'm not saying it should have been DQ'd or anything like that. What's done is done.
Going forward though I think this is an important issue to discuss and consider. How can we come to a concensus if we never talk about how we feel about the various aspects of the site like voting and how to handle a DNMC?
For me this conversation is about much more than the tiger picture. |
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01/04/2006 10:49:52 PM · #55 |
Here's an idea that will need some kinks worked out of it:
Two scores 1) The image itself, score weighted at 80%
2) How well it meets the challenge, weighted at 20%
Good images will do well regardless, while good images that meet the challenge will do better. The weightings can be adjusted according to how important users believe meeting the challenge is before this idea is implemented. |
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01/04/2006 11:09:40 PM · #56 |
i think better than this, we shall have apart from scores 1-10, a dnmc (-5)
so if you think it does not meet challenge vote dnmc, the vote will be equivalent of -5.0 or -6.0, now if the image meets the challenge it will not be affected, but if it is DNMC it will be punished as how much people thought it was DNMC.
for example , lets say
the tiger image in question if it had got even four DNMC that is equivatent of -20 (= 4 x 5), it would have brought it down a lot. This way some people who want to vote just for beauty regardless of challenge creteria can vote it how they please, but it will not do well in overall results.
Originally posted by yakatme: Here's an idea that will need some kinks worked out of it:
Two scores 1) The image itself, score weighted at 80%
2) How well it meets the challenge, weighted at 20%
Good images will do well regardless, while good images that meet the challenge will do better. The weightings can be adjusted according to how important users believe meeting the challenge is before this idea is implemented. |
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01/04/2006 11:14:10 PM · #57 |
Sorry Riggs, but I am stepping down from the position..... zxaar can be the dnmtc police - he's got interesting ideas.
Go for it, zxaar, lead us into DPC salvation.
(Edited to fix silly finger syndrome)
Message edited by author 2006-01-04 23:16:58. |
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01/04/2006 11:17:51 PM · #58 |
Just for kicks, I think we should show examples of all the photos that did not meet the challenge that ribboned...or made the top 10 ever at DPC.
I dont think there will be many myself...but if this is such an issue, well lets see all the problem photos.
Edited to tell Beetle I am also steppig down...my last post on this subject.
Message edited by author 2006-01-04 23:22:13. |
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01/04/2006 11:29:14 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by Riggs: Just for kicks, I think we should show examples of all the photos that did not meet the challenge that ribboned...or made the top 10 ever at DPC.
I dont think there will be many myself...but if this is such an issue, well lets see all the problem photos.
Edited to tell Beetle I am also steppig down...my last post on this subject. |
The fact that such photos may have ribboned or not is totally insignificant and not particularly germaine to the question at hand.
Let us assume that in each challenge there are 200 entries, and that a DNMC entry finished in the the top 50. The primary issue of consideration, at least from my perspective, is that someone who could not be bothered to attempt a photo that fell within the prescribed criteria managed to supercede 150 others who did make that effort, and therein lies the gist of the argument.
I have no problems with people displaying their photos, but if they can't be bothered to attempt to meet the established criteria, then I am not apt to want to reward their efforts, or lack thereof.
Ray |
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01/05/2006 12:06:28 AM · #60 |
you know who will suffer the most if the -5 idea of mine is implemented, perhaps it would be me. If you read the comments on the pics i have submitted lot of people said it does not meet the cretiria. I would perhaps score negative or zero.
Originally posted by Beetle: Sorry Riggs, but I am stepping down from the position..... zxaar can be the dnmtc police - he's got interesting ideas.
Go for it, zxaar, lead us into DPC salvation.
(Edited to fix silly finger syndrome) |
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01/05/2006 12:06:37 AM · #61 |
I'm surprised at the number of posts here blaming the photographer. In a contest, the entrant has one job - to do well. 12sth place out of 99 is pretty good, the photographer did his job. If the photo does not place where you think it should, that is a failure on the part of the voters. If a photo that doesn't meet the challenge is placing high, you don't encourage the photographer not to enter because he is doing so well, you encourage the voters to vote differently. It's not disrespectful to enter a photo that does well. Scoring it highly is akin to saying "do it again." If you don't like that, you should be encouraging your fellow voters to see the vote the way you do, not asking the photographer to not enter.
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01/05/2006 12:32:44 AM · #62 |
MK, that is exactly the point, the photographer is a very talented person and he entered what he in his opinion thought can do well and it did. Why blame him if we are wrong, that is if we are. I am sure this not the first time nor the last time that a great pic will score well. We, the tribe, speaks and forever holds our peace. |
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01/05/2006 12:42:51 AM · #63 |
I, for one, am asking everybody to adhere to the rules and guidelines, submitters and voters alike.
I would have hoped that supporting the spirit and philosophy behind those rules would have been a priority of every SC member. |
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01/05/2006 12:46:03 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by gibun: .....We, the tribe, speaks and forever holds our peace. |
I fear I must vehemently disagree with this premise. I am not apt to hold my peace since I view such scenarios as a flagrant violations of prescribed norms, and will continue to strive to have people develop an understanding that there are rules.
There is absolutely no denying the fact that this is indeed a truly stunning photograph, but that is not the primary issue of consideration in this instance. From my perspective, the basic tenet to be considered is the fact that it is a bit of a stretch to consider this photo as meeting the challenge criteria.
I have no problem at all with the photographer and would agree wholeheartedly with MK in that the issue here is rather one of educating the voting masses as to what exactly meeting challenge criteria entails.
Ray |
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01/05/2006 12:49:18 AM · #65 |
It sounds like you and Beetle want everyone to interepret the rules the way you do. Why can't you leave everybody else alone and simply use your vote the way you want to.
Originally posted by RayEthier: Originally posted by gibun: .....We, the tribe, speaks and forever holds our peace. |
I fear I must vehemently disagree with this premise. I am not apt to hold my peace since I view such scenarios as a flagrant violations of prescribed norms, and will continue to strive to have people develop an understanding that there are rules.
There is absolutely no denying the fact that this is indeed a truly stunning photograph, but that is not the primary issue of consideration in this instance. From my perspective, the basic tenet to be considered is the fact that it is a bit of a stretch to consider this photo as meeting the challenge criteria.
I have no problem at all with the photographer and would agree wholeheartedly with MK in that the issue here is rather one of educating the voting masses as to what exactly meeting challenge criteria entails.
Ray |
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01/05/2006 12:52:47 AM · #66 |
I do support the philosophy and spirit. I support the fact that voters are asked to hold the challenge in highest regard when they vote and if photos that do not meet the challenge are placing highly, I support encouraging people to HOLD THE CHALLENGE IN HIGHEST REGARD when they vote. I do not support telling people that they shouldn't have entered after they finished in 12th place because that contradicts what the voters are saying. If voters voted it poorly, he'd be less likely to submit a photo that didn't meet the challenge again.
I don't think people should shoehorn in entries, no. And I don't think people should enter crap just because they are addicted to the update button. But I speak that through my vote. If others do not do the same, I realize that they do not feel the same way. It is not disrespectful for someone to do something that we reward them for.
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01/05/2006 12:53:37 AM · #67 |
Originally posted by enigmania: It sounds like you and Beetle want everyone to interepret the rules the way you do. Why can't you leave everybody else alone and simply use your vote the way you want to.
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Not in the least......what I am advocating is that it would be nice if indeed the general populace familiarized themselves with the rules, a factor which unfortunately does not seem prevalent in this instance.
Do take the time to read the rules... you might gain some insight as to what exactly it is that I am talking about.
Ray |
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01/05/2006 12:54:52 AM · #68 |
Which rule was broken in this instance?
Originally posted by RayEthier: Originally posted by enigmania: It sounds like you and Beetle want everyone to interepret the rules the way you do. Why can't you leave everybody else alone and simply use your vote the way you want to.
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Not in the least......what I am advocating is that it would be nice if indeed the general populace familiarized themselves with the rules, a factor which unfortunately does not seem prevalent in this instance.
Do take the time to read the rules... you might gain some insight as to what exactly it is that I am talking about.
Ray |
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01/05/2006 12:56:42 AM · #69 |
One voice or even a few does not constitute the voice of the tribe.... count the number of votes Bobby received and look at the score. The tribe is the voice, the minority must accept that. Isn't that what I called 'oppression by numbers"? I even confuse myself sometimes;-). Let's move on. |
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01/05/2006 12:59:20 AM · #70 |
Yeah, the challenge connection was weak, yet it scored well anyway... OOPS! Oh, well... there ya' go! ;-)
Shouldn't we be equally outraged that the second place shattered ornament (which OBVIOUSLY met the challenge) got 23 votes below 5? |
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01/05/2006 01:03:02 AM · #71 |
You know that is why it is a contest to see how well a pic will do, you either enter it according to what the mob wants or you put in what you want. The voting will sort it out. This pic is really good that is why it got 12th place, if it wasn't as good it would have gotten 50 or 60th place, so dust yourself off and come back next week. PS I think it was a clever oops anyway imho |
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01/05/2006 01:04:45 AM · #72 |
Shouldn't we be equally outraged that the second place shattered ornament (which OBVIOUSLY met the challenge) got 23 votes below 5? [/quote]
Yes, I think it was dead on for the challenge. |
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01/05/2006 01:16:20 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by enigmania: Which rule was broken in this instance? |
This might be something some folks did not factor in when voting:
While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.
You have your views... I have mine, and it would seem that in this instance we agree to disagree. Mine is but one vote, and seemingly runs counter to the expressed wishes of the masses. This is not the first time I have not agreed with a popular view, nor will it be the last.
In summation, I think my feelings about this matter at this junction were best expressed by Gibun in his last submission...Let's Move On.
Ray |
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01/05/2006 01:21:49 AM · #74 |
I agree to disagree.
I'm Moving On :)
Kieran.
Originally posted by RayEthier: Originally posted by enigmania: Which rule was broken in this instance? |
This might be something some folks did not factor in when voting:
While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.
You have your views... I have mine, and it would seem that in this instance we agree to disagree. Mine is but one vote, and seemingly runs counter to the expressed wishes of the masses. This is not the first time I have not agreed with a popular view, nor will it be the last.
In summation, I think my feelings about this matter at this junction were best expressed by Gibun in his last submission...Let's Move On.
Ray |
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01/05/2006 06:08:55 AM · #75 |
Wow, who would have imagined my entry would develop into this?
I've been at work until now so didn't have time to give my two cents worth.
Let me just say this. I did not enter this shot to prove ANY point. I entered it as I felt a sudden change in the weather was a kind of "Oops". Maybe it would have been more appropriate if the challenge was entitled "Damn", then the title would have been, "Damn, they said it would be sunny today!" If I recall correctly the brief was to photograph something gone wrong. Does 'the weather gone wrong' not apply? I thought it did. And yes, the good old tiger, expecting a nice sunny day to go out and bask, found itself in a snow shower - Oops - not what it was expecting. I rest my case! |
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