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12/23/2005 06:42:40 PM · #26 |
Will you post the results of your trial from jail dsmeth? :)
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12/23/2005 06:50:46 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by dsmeth:
I've been run out of places before for taking pictures. I've never been detained or assulted. Mostly just asked what I was doing in which I explained and then was asked to leave.
As far as somebody grabbing me and yelling in my face, I pitty the poor bastard because his day will go bad for him real quick like, weather I'm in the wrong or not. I'll ask ya one time to get your hands off then the s..t is gonna hit the fan.
Next time take the shopping carts with you. Stores don't seem to have a problem with that. I see people pushing them all over town. |
Get a 1 series camera. Much more effective for repeling assaults.
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12/23/2005 06:55:36 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by dsmeth:
As far as somebody grabbing me and yelling in my face, I pitty the poor bastard because his day will go bad for him real quick like, weather I'm in the wrong or not. I'll ask ya one time to get your hands off then the s..t is gonna hit the fan.
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You gonna take the same approach when your cellmate decides you are gonna be his new girlfriend?
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12/23/2005 07:00:09 PM · #29 |
Owners or their agents have the right to hold you against your will, if you have broken the law, while you wait for the police. If you have violated store policy, but not broken the law they are limited to escorting you off the property.
They can not look in your bag without permission.
They can not force you to show them what pictures you might have taken.
You have rights to be secure in your person and property, which you can relinquish, but only the police, with a court order, can abridge those rights without breaking the law.
Message edited by author 2005-12-23 19:00:38. |
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12/23/2005 07:09:59 PM · #30 |
| im kind of surpprised no one brought this up, maybe its just cause Im in NY, but post 9/11 things that may have seemed harmless like taking a couple of photo's no longer look harmless and peoples intenstions are easliy miss-took. That being said it doesnt give anyone the right to lay a hand on you but it can explain their behavior a bit. |
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12/23/2005 07:10:57 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by dsmeth:
As far as somebody grabbing me and yelling in my face, I pitty the poor bastard because his day will go bad for him real quick like, weather I'm in the wrong or not. I'll ask ya one time to get your hands off then the s..t is gonna hit the fan.
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You gonna take the same approach when your cellmate decides you are gonna be his new girlfriend? |
What, so everybody's a punk bitch?
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12/23/2005 07:12:49 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by nlghttrain:
im kind of surpprised no one brought this up, maybe its just cause Im in NY, but post 9/11 things that may have seemed harmless like taking a couple of photo's no longer look harmless and peoples intenstions are easliy miss-took. That being said it doesnt give anyone the right to lay a hand on you but it can explain their behavior a bit. |
Yes. I agree. Taking pictures of shopping carts can easily be mistaken for a dire breech of national security.
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12/23/2005 07:14:47 PM · #33 |
| Are you sure you're not a terrorist? |
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12/23/2005 07:17:43 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Owners or their agents have the right to hold you against your will, if you have broken the law, while you wait for the police. If you have violated store policy, but not broken the law they are limited to escorting you off the property.
They can not look in your bag without permission.
They can not force you to show them what pictures you might have taken.
You have rights to be secure in your person and property, which you can relinquish, but only the police, with a court order, can abridge those rights without breaking the law. |
If you are a lawyer and have specific insight into this, say so. So many people offer their righteous legal opinions online while having their heads firmly lodged between their buttcheeks. Again, unless you are a lawyer and have specific knowledge of this area of law, you're probably just blowing smoke and anyone who acts on your advice is a fool.
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12/23/2005 07:22:52 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by nlghttrain:
im kind of surpprised no one brought this up, maybe its just cause Im in NY, but post 9/11 things that may have seemed harmless like taking a couple of photo's no longer look harmless and peoples intenstions are easliy miss-took. That being said it doesnt give anyone the right to lay a hand on you but it can explain their behavior a bit. |
Yes. I agree. Taking pictures of shopping carts can easily be mistaken for a dire breech of national security. |
Has nothing to do with National Security and everything to do with preventing corporate espionage and/or theft.
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12/23/2005 07:27:40 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
... I know their door says no photography allowed on the premises ... |
You knew about the sign prohibiting photographs and ignored it.
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
This isn't the first time it's happened either ... |
How many times does it have to happen before you decide to re-think your approach?
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
I thought I should file a complaint with the BBB, but my mom said she thought they would press charges because I hit one of them trying to get free... I'll call my boss and see what he thinks about it. |
Forget your boss, listen to your Mom.
Bottom Line - You were in the wrong from the get-go.
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12/23/2005 07:33:23 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
Originally posted by mavrik:
I'm still looking up the law, but I'd be absolutely stunned if that was truly the law and not your opinion. |
Hill v. Sonitrol of Southwestern Ohio, Inc., 36 Ohio St.3d 36, 1988
Woman was detained, tried to get away and was physically hauled back inside. Ruled that it was within the owner's rights for the guards to detain her physically once she tried to get away.
This isn't the law - they can do a LOT - unless they banged your head off the wall, twisted your arm and slapped you...that's excessive. Short of that, the law doesn't help much. |
Nope, they have to see you take merchandise off the shelf:
a. The merchant's privilege provides for detention of persons suspected of shoplifting only when probable cause or reasonable cause exists to believe a person has committed theft. The best practice for establishing this probable cause (as compared to any legal standard) is the security person's having met all the following six steps: (1) observe the customer approach the merchandise, (2) observe the customer select the merchandise, (3) observe the customer conceal (or otherwise carry away) the merchandise, (4) keep the customer under constant and uninterrupted observation, (5) see the customer fail to pay for the merchandise, and (6) detain the customer outside the store.
In the case of taking photographs, the have no rights whatsoever to impinge upon someone photographing the outside of their property as far as I know.
Physical detention can only be used in the case of a direct crime being commited by the suspect, and witnessed by the store owner or the security personnell.
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12/23/2005 07:35:24 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Has nothing to do with National Security and everything to do with preventing corporate espionage and/or theft. |
Umm, sorprate espionage on shopping carts? Okay, people are getting a little weird in the head in here. Too much holiday-nog?
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12/23/2005 07:48:17 PM · #39 |
The guy grabbed you, you werent doing anything wrong so you hit him.
Next time hit harder and more often. Don't stop hitting until the guy goes down and isnt getting up |
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12/23/2005 07:49:43 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Has nothing to do with National Security and everything to do with preventing corporate espionage and/or theft. |
Umm, sorprate espionage on shopping carts? Okay, people are getting a little weird in the head in here. Too much holiday-nog? |
Spaz be spasin out.
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12/23/2005 07:51:28 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by photodude:
The guy grabbed you, you werent doing anything wrong so you hit him.
Next time hit harder and more often. Don't stop hitting until the guy goes down and isnt getting up |
That's where that series 1 camera comes in. It usually only takes one time.
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12/23/2005 07:53:40 PM · #42 |
| just to point out the fact. Up to this point in this thread there hasn't been a single nikon user who has commented....weird |
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12/23/2005 07:58:45 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by gi_joe05:
just to point out the fact. Up to this point in this thread there hasn't been a single nikon user who has commented....weird |
What's nikon?
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12/23/2005 08:02:06 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by gi_joe05:
just to point out the fact. Up to this point in this thread there hasn't been a single nikon user who has commented....weird |
What's nikon? |
That brand of camera that aren't well built enough to club people with.
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12/23/2005 08:10:24 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Has nothing to do with National Security and everything to do with preventing corporate espionage and/or theft. |
Umm, sorprate espionage on shopping carts? Okay, people are getting a little weird in the head in here. Too much holiday-nog? |
Yeah, while pretending to take a picture of a shopping cart, also in the frame is something like the alarm box or the keybox etc. The carts are not the real subject of interest.
Where I work, we have been the target of corporate espionage. People stealing entire dumpsters of trash, photographing our loading dock with 600mm lenses when the door is open, snooping our wireless network. It's not like we're working on Top Secret military stuff either. It's amazing what people will try to get insight into another company's operations.
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12/23/2005 08:13:58 PM · #46 |
hmm...
I'd just tell one of my guys to go work for you... seems pretty simple to me.
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12/23/2005 08:25:57 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
So many people offer their righteous legal opinions online while having their heads firmly lodged between their buttcheeks. Again, unless you are a lawyer and have specific knowledge of this area of law, you're probably just blowing smoke and anyone who acts on your advice is a fool. |
I quite concur, some people do act like fools online don't they?
I am not a lawyer, but my father & brother are lawyers, I studied prelaw track at UCBerkeley (basic contract, constitutional,just for a year or so, mixed in with the undergrad reqs.) and all of that is toally irrelevant.
Most any decently educated American ought to know the basic rules of what rights you have to be secure in your person. Ever take a civics class in highschool? Ever read the bill of rights? If you have no idea what rights you have, educate yourself, google Nolo Press, do some reading. Or go get a law degree if that's what it takes for you to become aware of the rights of an American citiczen
You may need a weather man to tell you that it's raining, I belive I can just look up and see for myself. And if you are standing there getting soaked, feel free to ignore me while I put up an umbrella.
Message edited by author 2005-12-23 20:33:23.
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12/23/2005 08:28:15 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
hmm...
I'd just tell one of my guys to go work for you... seems pretty simple to me. |
That has been tried too, but we don't hire from the competition.
Also, if the person gets caught, they are criminally liable as is the company responsible and unless the person has a fake identity including a SSN, it's not too hard to track them down. The guy sitting across the road with his telephoto lens isn't doing anything illegal, assuming that he's parked in the right spot and even then it's only a parking citation.
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12/23/2005 08:43:15 PM · #49 |
So let me ask you this, would it be illegal for him to take photos of the shopping carts from across the street? Would the owner have the right to contain him then?
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12/23/2005 08:46:39 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Where I work, we have been the target of corporate espionage. People stealing entire dumpsters of trash, photographing our loading dock with 600mm lenses when the door is open, snooping our wireless network. It's not like we're working on Top Secret military stuff either. It's amazing what people will try to get insight into another company's operations. |
I doubt that would be an issue at a grocery store, though.
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