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12/21/2005 07:18:30 PM · #1 |
NOTE: Before I type this, I put it in Rant due to the possible responses. But really isn't a rant at all...just an unquenchable thirst for knowledge.
After a challenge there are always threads by people whining about how bad they did, or how it was voted, or 'why did this do bad...'(the votes didn't speak loud enough?) I have been guilty of this at least once or twice (how it was voted usually) And then we have all the interpretation debates (ad nauseum).
But what I am really interested in are the ones who do not speak...
After a challenge when you score lower than you felt you should, especially when you see shots scored higher that you thought did not deserve it, how do you feel? What is your emotion? Is it a burning desire to do better next time? Is it a cop out like 'they are all stupid and don't know how to vote'? Do you want to learn or are you discouraged? Do you get depressed/angry over it
Do you try and learn from it or chalk it up to your own failure/inadequate abilities?
Are you angry or are you motivated?
Are you upset and feel like you shouldn't be here?
Do you take it with a grain of salt, shrug it off and 'oh well, another challenge is coming up so no big deal?'
Some of this curiosity is driven by a genuine desire to know how people react and some of it is a result of viewing some people's profiles and realizing they have been here for years, have not scored above a 5.2 ever, yet they still contribute and are very active and you never hear a word of complaint from them about anything. To me this demonstrates a true love of photography...continuing to produce what they like despite the fact the community has repeatedly told them (through voting) that they need improvement.
So...this is in Rant and the floor is open...honesty is appreciated/attacks are not.
And for the other side...
How many of you are sick and tired of hearing the whining why a shot didn't do good? Or a challenge wasn't voted properly? Or that the interpretation was wrong (ad nauseum)?
Message edited by author 2005-12-21 19:30:47. |
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12/21/2005 08:08:46 PM · #2 |
Personally, I am very passionate about my photography, but less passionate about how other people view my pictures. These challenges have really forced me to "think" about the pictures I take, as well as create images I normally would not have thought about doing. I like to think of the voters on this site as "clients" - they have given you an assignment and it's your job to try and please your clients as much as possible. Now, as in the business world, your clients have certain expectations and a "look" that they prefer. In this case, my tastes don't always match what I think the majority of people vote on, so the challenge for me is to match the expectations of my clientle. My score is simply a representation of how closely I met the expectations of my client for this particular challenge, but NOT of my abilities as a photographer. Of course I like to score well, but if I don't, it's no big deal, there will be another project and more clients next week!
That's my approach. Others, however, who are also very passionate about their craft and pictures, look for vindication and approval of their work from the voters on this site (IMO). These types of people take the craft very seriously, put a lot of effort into making the best picture they can, and sometimes when that vindication/approval of their efforts is not rewarded, they revolt in a Rant. To each his own. People think and react in different ways. Personally, I think it's great to have people with this type of passion about their pictures and photography.
As for the whining, it doesn't bother me, I actually find the threads somewhat humorous to read. If I get tired of it, I just go read another thread, it's not that big a deal. However, others, like MrsFuzzButt, obviously feel differently. (referring to an earlier thread)
At the end of the day, this should just be for fun. There are no stakes involved, no money or loss of job. It's for fun. If you are passionate about your work and think everyone else is wrong, more power to ya (although you might find yourself spending a lot of time alone). If you are tired of the whining, just don't read the thread - IT's NOT THAT HARD. |
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12/21/2005 08:11:52 PM · #3 |
The only time I get mad is when someone whines about their shot in 14th place and mine is in 197th place. :)
Actually that stuff never bugs me. |
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12/21/2005 08:16:56 PM · #4 |
i "ranted" during the first few months ( i think so anyway)
i also believe i am my own worst/best critic - and generally know when i've posted a so-so picture
i have never asked for a "critique on my submission" - and the few times i have offered a criticism / i was blasted for being negitive ..
that being said i am sometimes surprized at the pictures people complain about . ok ok . they are thier babies .. but belive it or not .. some kids are butt ugly ..
some of the problems that i see should be in basic composure lessons, as this isn't a place for snapshots ...
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12/21/2005 11:18:25 PM · #5 |
Well, personally i've only entered one challenge. I'm one of the weirdos that joined up within a couple of weeks of finding the site, which was only a couple of weeks after getting my Nikon 8800. I picked the challenge i entered because i thought it would be straightforward - silly me. Now i am aware of the myriad interpretations each challenge reveals, and i'm not confident enough in my abilities to jump into the fray - yet. But i'll get there, hopefully sooner rather than later.
As for that lone challenge entry; well, i had hoped it would do better, but since the voters make the choice, it got exactly what it deserved. During that week, with those voters, in that challenge. :) |
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12/21/2005 11:30:22 PM · #6 |
I fall into this catagory. A bunch of shots that I'm proud of that haven't done as well as I hoped. Like Shallow DOF II, right now. It's depressing to a point, but when all is said and done, I just shrug and go shoot the next challenge I can, in hopes of doing better. It worries be to some level, because I love photography with a burning passion, but I can't get above (or often near) a 6 in the challenges, and sometimes wonder if I'm actually getting better or not. Now and then it gets to be enough that I rant about Trolls for a post or two, but normally I keep in mind that as great as this site is, the voting is skewed.
As far as the whining goes, most of the time I just ignore it. I don't want to read about how someone is all pissy over a low score or whatever, so I just don't read them. Now and then, however, it is amusing to see someone get really fired up and stomp off ;-)
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12/21/2005 11:45:18 PM · #7 |
I felt really upset the first time it happened... Later I realized by observing the winning shots in each challenge I enter what are my flaws and keep working to overcome them.
Lately I shoot for my own leisure and I care very little about the scores, even though I keep striving to keep them above average.
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12/22/2005 10:55:45 AM · #8 |
I guess right after a challenge I do get miffed if I got a low score. But then I remeber, does the music I listen to appeal to everyone? Nope, sometimes it all works together and you get flavor of the week, a virtual ribbon and atta boy's. Just trying to learn and improve is my excuse:)
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12/22/2005 11:09:48 AM · #9 |
All of the above.
I have felt everything you've described over one challenge or another.
I love this place and I'm not whining!
When I'm really passionate about an entry I usually start ranting to myself and the computer that "My photo's better than that! I wish I had friends and family bumping my score up. Not Fair. Not FAIR!" No merit just the rants of a momentarily deranged woman. lol
Message edited by author 2005-12-22 11:15:56. |
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12/22/2005 11:27:46 AM · #10 |
me too,
i'm angry and motivated !
i'm upset and feel like i shouldn't be here !
but it leaves me after few seconds coz there is always a new challenge :-)
and ofcourse ... trying to get better, always.
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12/22/2005 11:47:35 AM · #11 |
I get upset and then I make up a bunch of lousy excuses, like, "I'm underappreciated", and "I'm too abstract", and others like that :) Then I usually get mad at scalvert for beating me. Then I think I should get a D200. Then I get real and rephrase my excuses, "I'm underappreciated" becomes "I'm just not quite there" and "I'm too abstract" becomes something like "I'm too oblique or obstuse". Then I try to come up with a way to beat scalvert in the next challenge.
I'm just a real kid when it comes to losing. And, as a truly competitive person, I perceive every time I don't "win" as a "loss".
I'm sort of kidding. The things above are actually true, but also not true (if that makes sense).
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12/22/2005 12:10:56 PM · #12 |
Well I can't respond to past challenges, because this is my first submission. I submitted to both Phobia and to DOF II. In Phobia, I am doing better than hoped (6.4), and the comments reflect that people think I pulled off the assignment.
In DOF II, which I thought was the better of the two, I am at a 4.2 with no comments, and I am frustrated.
The range of thought that go through my head include:
"It's your first sumbmission. Don't worry about it."
"I can't believe that people don't even think it's average."
"With 347 submissions, it's tough competition."
"People seem to think that excessively shallow DOF is the only thing that will fulfill the challenge."
"Hello? Can I get some comments over here to know where you think I went wrong?"
So, although the above may sound rant-ish, I just wanted to share the thoughts going through this first-submitter's head. Ultimately I am here to improve my skills and to give me an excuse to get out there and take shots that I wouldn't otherwise have thought to take. |
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12/22/2005 12:18:36 PM · #13 |
The voters are always right, but I reserve the right to rant just because it's entertaining.
Sometimes I enter pretty tasteless stuff, knowing it will score really low. It's just fun to do this to see what sort of reaction, if any, it will get in the comments.
:-D
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12/22/2005 12:33:42 PM · #14 |
The scores really don't matter much to me. I admit to being a "needy" DPC'er who loves to get comments. I don't yet have a lot of faith in my own ability as a photographer, so I hope and look for positive remarks (and scores) to build up that level of confidence. Sometimes when I get a really good shot (IMO) I still have that "I did that?" feeling.
I have learned a lot by the constructive criticism I've received here...some I agree with, others I think about and determine that maybe it just doesn't fit my style or tastes. I've also determined that just because a photo may not "work" here on dpc, it may have other reasons to be meaningful or appreciated by others (family pictures, local scenes, etc.)
So I guess I'm saying that the feedback in form of comments means much more to me than the scores or placement. They matter some, just not enough to worry about. I don't think that if I ever received a ribbon, I'd think "I've finally arrived" and quit learning.
I think I've only been really angry once, but it had nothing to do with my entry in a challenge. |
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12/22/2005 12:43:38 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Well I can't respond to past challenges, because this is my first submission. I submitted to both Phobia and to DOF II. In Phobia, I am doing better than hoped (6.4), and the comments reflect that people think I pulled off the assignment.
In DOF II, which I thought was the better of the two, I am at a 4.2 with no comments, and I am frustrated.
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How is that possible? Both are open challenges? You are only supposed to be in one of them? Did they change that rule and I missed it?
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12/22/2005 12:52:11 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Elemmennope:
Originally posted by _eug:
Well I can't respond to past challenges, because this is my first submission. I submitted to both Phobia and to DOF II. In Phobia, I am doing better than hoped (6.4), and the comments reflect that people think I pulled off the assignment.
In DOF II, which I thought was the better of the two, I am at a 4.2 with no comments, and I am frustrated.
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How is that possible? Both are open challenges? You are only supposed to be in one of them? Did they change that rule and I missed it? |
You are correct. Both are exclusive open challenges, there have been no changes so the above statement is impossible.
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12/22/2005 12:59:59 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Elemmennope:
Originally posted by _eug:
Well I can't respond to past challenges, because this is my first submission. I submitted to both Phobia and to DOF II. In Phobia, I am doing better than hoped (6.4), and the comments reflect that people think I pulled off the assignment.
In DOF II, which I thought was the better of the two, I am at a 4.2 with no comments, and I am frustrated.
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How is that possible? Both are open challenges? You are only supposed to be in one of them? Did they change that rule and I missed it? |
I submitted 2 seperate photos with 2 different subjects. Nowhere on the site have I seen a rule that you can't submit to more than one challenge. Only that, "A photograph may only be used in one challenge, even if it is cropped or altered differently to fit another challenge." |
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12/22/2005 01:02:26 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by Elemmennope:
Originally posted by _eug:
Well I can't respond to past challenges, because this is my first submission. I submitted to both Phobia and to DOF II. In Phobia, I am doing better than hoped (6.4), and the comments reflect that people think I pulled off the assignment.
In DOF II, which I thought was the better of the two, I am at a 4.2 with no comments, and I am frustrated.
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How is that possible? Both are open challenges? You are only supposed to be in one of them? Did they change that rule and I missed it? |
I submitted 2 seperate photos with 2 different subjects. Nowhere on the site have I seen a rule that you can't submit to more than one challenge. Only that, "A photograph may only be used in one challenge, even if it is cropped or altered differently to fit another challenge." |
"Exclusive" in "Exclusive Open Challenge" means you can enter one or the other, not both. You can, however, also enter a Member challenge during the same week.
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12/22/2005 01:09:46 PM · #19 |
I'm usually totally excited about my submission UNTIL I see the thumbnails then I get the reality slap in the face so I'm ok. I have yet to score above 5.6something and that does bum me out some but this last entry had a last minute burst in score and it brought me back to the living. It was my second best score to date and even though it isn't above 6 I couldn't be happier.
I don't worry about the score really as long as I don't get the rude people totally trashing my image unjustly (only had one person really so I'm ok). In my heart I would like to be a pro photographer and have learned so much from you all but also know I have many more miles to go including a better camera and thats why I submit...to learn from the best.
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12/22/2005 01:10:16 PM · #20 |
I got over losing a long time ago. Got that first brown ribbon, licked my wounds, and moved on. And ... I've learned a lot about photography.
My whine - I hate killing threads! I take that very personally - LOL!
Message edited by author 2005-12-22 13:10:52. |
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12/22/2005 01:10:46 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by idnic:
Originally posted by _eug:
I submitted 2 seperate photos with 2 different subjects. Nowhere on the site have I seen a rule that you can't submit to more than one challenge. Only that, "A photograph may only be used in one challenge, even if it is cropped or altered differently to fit another challenge." |
"Exclusive" in "Exclusive Open Challenge" means you can enter one or the other, not both. You can, however, also enter a Member challenge during the same week. |
Okay. That just a pain ain't it. How about DPC pointing this out somewhere? I can't find mention of this anywhere other than a search I just did in the Forums which I normally don't participate in. Also, why was I allow to submit to both if it's exclusive?
This annoys me worse than the 4.2 and no comments. |
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12/22/2005 01:13:05 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by idnic:
Originally posted by _eug:
I submitted 2 seperate photos with 2 different subjects. Nowhere on the site have I seen a rule that you can't submit to more than one challenge. Only that, "A photograph may only be used in one challenge, even if it is cropped or altered differently to fit another challenge." |
"Exclusive" in "Exclusive Open Challenge" means you can enter one or the other, not both. You can, however, also enter a Member challenge during the same week. |
Okay. That just a pain ain't it. How about DPC pointing this out somewhere? I can't find mention of this anywhere other than a search I just did in the Forums which I normally don't participate in. Also, why was I allow to submit to both if it's exclusive?
This annoys me worse than the 4.2 and no comments. |
The "Only" way this is possible is if you have 2 user names... Which of course against TOS.
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12/22/2005 01:15:15 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by idnic:
Originally posted by _eug:
I submitted 2 seperate photos with 2 different subjects. Nowhere on the site have I seen a rule that you can't submit to more than one challenge. Only that, "A photograph may only be used in one challenge, even if it is cropped or altered differently to fit another challenge." |
"Exclusive" in "Exclusive Open Challenge" means you can enter one or the other, not both. You can, however, also enter a Member challenge during the same week. |
Okay. That just a pain ain't it. How about DPC pointing this out somewhere? I can't find mention of this anywhere other than a search I just did in the Forums which I normally don't participate in. Also, why was I allow to submit to both if it's exclusive?
This annoys me worse than the 4.2 and no comments. |
That is weird. I would've thought you'd get an error message when trying to upload the second photo. I wonder how many other people have done the same because you're right, it's not too clear to a new person what exclusive open means. |
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12/22/2005 01:17:42 PM · #24 |
You shouldn't be able to submit to both challenges at the same time with the same account. If you were, there's a glitch in the system and the admins will have to look into it. Generally, when you try to upload your second entry, you'll get a note saying that you can't.
Message edited by author 2005-12-22 13:18:10. |
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12/22/2005 01:20:42 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by mk:
You shouldn't be able to submit to both challenges at the same time with the same account. If you were, there's a glitch in the system and the admins will have to look into it. Generally, when you try to upload your second entry, you'll get a note saying that you can't. |
Here the left column of my start page... Yes, there is a 'Glitch'.
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