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12/20/2005 04:12:48 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by mhphoto:
Well I am a very objective person. I do not only vote for the photos I like but the one I do not like as well. I look at a photo first, then I question if it has stongly met the challenge or not. I am of the opinion that I should have the choice of voting on the images that most interest me, GOOD OR POOR! I do it anyway by just hitting the back button to get me to the thumb nail page! I still vote, so why does it matter on the images I vote on? |
because no matter how objective you believe you are being, picking and choosing photos to vote on, whether they are poor or good photos in your opinion or not, goes against the spirit that this site has been based on.
The whole idea for the voting is to get as close to 100% as you can in every challenge. This isn't always possible, but it should the *intent*.
Basically all you are saying when you pick and choose is: I really don't care about this, just trying to pass some time.
As long as the option is available though, people will do it.
This is, of course, just my opinion.. and for the record, I've stopped voting completely anyway. |
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12/20/2005 04:21:05 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
This is, of course, just my opinion.. and for the record, I've stopped voting completely anyway. |
Not that I don't agree with the rest of what you said, but...
But the fact that knowledgeable people like you have stopped voting is a MAJOR PROBLEM on this site.
Half the time, it seems like only the n00b's are the ones voting, and everyone who has been here for awhile, and whose vote has more meaning (to me anyways) have stopped voting half the time.
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12/20/2005 04:23:53 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by Artyste:
This is, of course, just my opinion.. and for the record, I've stopped voting completely anyway. |
Not that I don't agree with the rest of what you said, but...
But the fact that knowledgeable people like you have stopped voting is a MAJOR PROBLEM on this site.
Half the time, it seems like only the n00b's are the ones voting, and everyone who has been here for awhile, and whose vote has more meaning (to me anyways) have stopped voting half the time. |
I'll add: Let me get this straight, Glen - voting on a selected set of images goes against the spirit of the site, but NOT voting at all does not? |
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12/20/2005 04:24:25 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by Artyste:
This is, of course, just my opinion.. and for the record, I've stopped voting completely anyway. |
Not that I don't agree with the rest of what you said, but...
But the fact that knowledgeable people like you have stopped voting is a MAJOR PROBLEM on this site.
Half the time, it seems like only the n00b's are the ones voting, and everyone who has been here for awhile, and whose vote has more meaning (to me anyways) have stopped voting half the time. |
It started as a time issue with me, but now that I have time again, I just have no desire.. it's not like riding a bike.
Also, I'm tired of the same ol' same ol'
I have no suggestions on how to fix things though |
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12/20/2005 04:26:39 PM · #30 |
Doing nothing never fixed anything, I know that for sure.
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12/20/2005 04:28:07 PM · #31 |
Isn't part of the argument that the thumbnails are too small to make ANY kind of decision from?
Not the decision of what value to place on it (voting), but rather to even decide to look at it or not based on a 120 x 120 (max) image can leave many good images out of your choices. Many times I've been surprised at an image at full size vs thumbnail (quality, composition, etc...).
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12/20/2005 04:36:07 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Isn't part of the argument that the thumbnails are too small to make ANY kind of decision from?
Not the decision of what value to place on it (voting), but rather to even decide to look at it or not based on a 120 x 120 (max) image can leave many good images out of your choices. Many times I've been surprised at an image at full size vs thumbnail (quality, composition, etc...). |
resized by the webserver no less. like I said, completely unfair to even choose what you're looking at based on the thumbs.
AND, you'll miss some of the best ones doing that frankly, you're cheating yourself.
If you don't want to vote on a picture, press the nxt arrow to the side of the 10, DON'T go back to the thumbs.
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12/20/2005 04:52:47 PM · #33 |
Why we should not make a decision to vote on picture based on the tumbnail...(see lines 7 & 8)
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12/20/2005 04:56:13 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by Artyste:
This is, of course, just my opinion.. and for the record, I've stopped voting completely anyway. |
Not that I don't agree with the rest of what you said, but...
But the fact that knowledgeable people like you have stopped voting is a MAJOR PROBLEM on this site.
Half the time, it seems like only the n00b's are the ones voting, and everyone who has been here for awhile, and whose vote has more meaning (to me anyways) have stopped voting half the time. |
It started as a time issue with me, but now that I have time again, I just have no desire.. it's not like riding a bike.
Also, I'm tired of the same ol' same ol'
I have no suggestions on how to fix things though |
This is interesting as I went through the same thing recently. I went about 4 or 5 weeks without voting, just could not get myself going but glad to report I have been voting for the past 2 weeks. I tend to vote a lot but not leave a lot of comments.
Edit to add: I dont believe selective voting is of use to anybody.
Mike
Message edited by author 2005-12-20 16:58:06.
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12/20/2005 05:00:03 PM · #35 |
If I don't want to be voting. I just go through and give everybody high votes and a confidence boost ... reverse troll. But, I try to vote every image and make a good vote.
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12/20/2005 05:01:46 PM · #36 |
Well I believe that if this can't be resolved today (I'm running out of popcorn) then there is a solution at hand.
We need to stop people picking their favourites and stacking the scoring. We need to stop people just picking the pretty ones or the really crappy ones. This free choice is creating far too much non-structured voting. For goodness sake, if this gets out of hand we'll have people doing anything they please!
- Delete the Thumbnail Page
- Provide no photos for individual voting
- Automatically assign all photos 5.5
Brett
Message edited by author 2005-12-20 17:02:40. |
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12/20/2005 05:13:07 PM · #37 |
While the corn is popping, I'll add...I vote on each and every image in a challenge. I start at the first one and go on thro until I am done the entire challenge. ( I do take breaks, but I do it all in one shot)
For me, it is the only fair way to do it.
Admittedly it can be tedious depending on the challenge, but oh well, thems the breaks.
I very rarely even refer to the thumbnails until after the challenge, when I am looking at scores.
Microwave just ding-ed, gotta go the popcorn is ready :) |
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12/20/2005 05:23:17 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by SDW65:
Why we should not make a decision to vote on picture based on the tumbnail...(see lines 7 & 8)
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This is YOU vote? |
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12/20/2005 05:28:53 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by SDW65:
Why we should not make a decision to vote on picture based on the tumbnail...(see lines 7 & 8)
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This is YOU vote? |
This is Y U vote LRG |
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12/20/2005 05:31:11 PM · #40 |
| Let me rephrase that: I need glasses. |
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12/22/2005 01:52:47 PM · #41 |
not voting in my opinion is rediculous. you expect a vote from everyone else, correct? i know this is cliche, but if everyone viewed it like you, this site would go down. you expect and hope to do well on challenges based on everyone else's votes, yet you don't vote?
no offense, but that seems quite selfish to me.
my 2c.
-jed |
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12/22/2005 01:59:04 PM · #42 |
I want to be able to click on a thumbnail and get a completely different photo....
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12/24/2005 02:32:52 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by jerowe:
not voting in my opinion is rediculous. you expect a vote from everyone else, correct? i know this is cliche, but if everyone viewed it like you, this site would go down. you expect and hope to do well on challenges based on everyone else's votes, yet you don't vote?
no offense, but that seems quite selfish to me.
my 2c.
-jed |
participate for a year or two and see how enthusiastic you feel.
Also, I don't *expect* anything. |
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12/24/2005 10:26:31 AM · #44 |
I've essentially seen two reasons against being able to pick: it's not fair to vote on thumbnails and it goes against the spirit of the site. I'm curious if there are more? The way I see it, the only way it's not fair to vote on thumbnails is if you've already decided your vote before you click on it. I've seen lots of photos that look awesome in thumbnail and much more disappointing full size and vice versa. I'm able to adjust my vote accordingly - I won't grade something awesomely just because I thought it would be by looking at the thumbnail.
We're having a similar discussion in the SC threads. When the issue first came up, I figured that it would be because the higher placing photos were getting more votes. A quick look at the four front page challenges showed this wasn't the case at all (I can provide the stats if wanted). Granted, this was only a small sampling but I'd be surprised if it vastly various in the the rest of the challenges.
I like looking at the thumbnail page to get a sense of what's in the challenge. I imagine other people do too and I feel like preventing them from doing so would just make some people vote even faster so they could get through to the end. I'd also guess, and this is just a quess so who knows, that there would be a lot more placing a vote without really voting (ie. every photo gets a 1 until you see the profile page) so that people with tiered voting systems, etc. could do it as they saw fit. I can only imagine the fits going on in the score threads if that was happening. ;) |
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12/24/2005 10:36:31 AM · #45 |
I think you have to sort first. Since we are voting on which is the best for the challenge compared to all of the entries you must narrow the field. I sort first without even looking at the title into pass / no pass. The pass's get looked at again closely and adjusted.
The thumbnails are very helpful once I have already seen all of the photos. It helps to sort up from the pass pile.
As for not moving onto the next photo full size, I think it would just add an extra step in the voting process which consumes too much time already with 300+ entries.
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12/24/2005 10:50:27 AM · #46 |
I don't see what the problem is.
On previous threads it was agreed that we should get rid of challenge descriptions, challenge titles, and challenges.
Therefore, if there are no challenges, there will be no thumbnail page to worry about. |
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12/24/2005 11:11:14 AM · #47 |
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE ON DIAL UP?!?
(sorry, I just had to say that)
Seriously though, we had how long of a thread that's been posted how many umpteen times about increasing the size of entries to 800X600 and there are people basing their voting on 120X120 pictures?!? That's CRAZY!
I suggest we have the thumbnail page available from the get go but you can't click on the thumbnails to vote on that picture, you have to go through the random list to vote.
If people want to vote a 1 for DNMC then that's their prerogative. There certainly are enough people doing that right now. If a person voted all 1s on every photo but their own wouldn't that constitute a violation of the voting agreement anyway (trying to unfairly influence the voting system?) |
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12/24/2005 11:15:08 AM · #48 |
Lets just remove voting all together and we can all guess how much people rate our photos!
edit* as a rule most people i know will vote for all as it is stupid to vote only on one you like it does not help the site at all and i have got to know this site well in the sort time i have being here if your not willing to help other people then this may not be the site for you.
Message edited by author 2005-12-24 11:20:22.
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12/24/2005 11:26:02 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by barndog:
I think you have to sort first. Since we are voting on which is the best for the challenge compared to all of the entries you must narrow the field. |
But you're not -- that would be "ranked voting." Our system asks that you evaluate each photo, on its own merits, on a 1-10 scale. The other photos in the challenge really shouldn't enter into that decision.
We don't ask you to place the photos in order, just give each a score. The photo and the topic are all you need for that -- you don't need to have seen all the photos.
This "ranking" of photos is precisely why I feel seeing the thumbs ahead of time is an unfair influence. If we were supposed to rank all the photos from best-to-worst then it would make sense, but when you are giving each a numerical score, it shouldn't matter -- we are not "grading on a curve."
If you hand in a test at school, you expect the tyeacher to grade you fairly, without being influenced by someone else's test results. That's the type of voting system we have here.
The idea of random presentation is pretty fundamental to the use of this system, since we only require you to vote on 20% of the entries; those entries should be a random selection, different for each person. Cherry-picking which entries to vote on defeats that randomness. |
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12/24/2005 11:55:06 AM · #50 |
The fact that a first second and third place "ribbon" is awarded dictates that there are photo's ranked as better than others. If you were to eliminate the ranking (DPC ultimately ranks all of the photos from user votes from first to last)then the photo's would not be judged against each other.
I see your point about the thumbnail pages though, it would eliminate an "ordering" of images.
This would kind of be a hybrid between DPC now and a site like photo.net where each photo is graded on it's own without comparison to the rest of the field.
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