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 12/16/2005 12:46:03 PM · #51
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I don't think any SC's should be allowed to ever refer to the plight of D&L's bank account in any threads.


so is that what this is really all about? us being concerned for the welfare of the site?

we are simply trying to point out that this is not some gigantic company fronting the money for this site. this isn't yahoo, or google that can afford to provide all of the services they've got for free. it's a business run by two dudes, and they should be able to do whatever they want with it.

we're not asking people to think about their bank accounts as much as trying to get people to remember that there are actual PEOPLE with things at stake here. it's not huge faceless company X providing you with this service.
 12/16/2005 12:48:55 PM · #52
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by muckpond:
i guess i sound like i'm coming down hard. i just don't think it's very polite to ask about it.

Originally posted by graphicfunk:
This is a private site and it owes no member nor particants a P&L statement.

OK, so now I'm tacky AND impolite. That's OK by me in this context.

If this question is impolite and no P&L statement is given, I don't think any SC's should be allowed to ever refer to the plight of D&L's bank account in any threads.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I agree. The S/C should not be representing the financial side of the company because they are in no position to present evidence which is the sole property of the owners. Not very ethical to do so.
 12/16/2005 12:49:52 PM · #53
Originally posted by muckpond:
but, my point is, it's none of our beezwax.


and my point is, stop referring to "...server costs and the thousands of dollars in monthly bandwidth expenses, not to mention for the ever-increasing amount of time that Drew and Langdon need to put into maintaining and improving the site..." if it's none of my beezwax.

This is something I see brought up by SC too often when there are discussions about policing of threads. Until I see proof, I think it's a lie.
 12/16/2005 12:49:56 PM · #54
Originally posted by muckpond:
we're not asking people to think about (D&L's) bank accounts as much as trying to get people to remember that there are actual PEOPLE with things at stake here. it's not huge faceless company X providing you with this service.


And we're paying (IF we pay) $25 a YEAR for all this; TWO DOLLARS A MONTH plus change. Is there a better bargain anywhere in the world for your entertainment dollar?

Robt.
 12/16/2005 12:51:59 PM · #55
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by muckpond:
but, my point is, it's none of our beezwax.


and my point is, stop referring to "...server costs and the thousands of dollars in monthly bandwidth expenses, not to mention for the ever-increasing amount of time that Drew and Langdon need to put into maintaining and improving the site..." if it's none of my beezwax.

This is something I see brought up by SC too often when there are discussions about policing of threads. Until I see proof, I think it's a lie.


So, why didn't you just come out and say that instead of letting the thread go for 2 (for me) pages?

Your concern is that once again the heavy-handed, authority driven SC is feeding you line? Correct?
 12/16/2005 12:52:23 PM · #56
My guess is D&L do this more for the fun and challenge than for the money. Even if they pocketed $62,000 from this site and the other income generated covered their operating cost, by the time you split it in half, it's only a modest living. And that's assuming that they actually pocket that much net income (which I kind of doubt).

The main point is, nobody is getting rich off of this, and even if they were, what difference does it make? D&L put a lot of hard work and effort into this site probably to challenge their coding skills as well as their photography skills. I have no problem with them reaping financial rewards (however big or small) for their efforts. Kudos to them on a well organized and bandwith friendly site that provides aspiring photographers with a wealth of knowledge and experience.

My $0.02 USD.
 12/16/2005 12:53:55 PM · #57
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
This is something I see brought up by SC too often when there are discussions about policing of threads. Until I see proof, I think it's a lie.


There's no requirement that you believe a single thing we say.
 12/16/2005 12:55:10 PM · #58
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
This is something I see brought up by SC too often when there are discussions about policing of threads. Until I see proof, I think it's a lie.


There's no requirement that you believe a single thing we say.


WHAT?!?!?!

You mean...

all this time???

but but but....

that's not what you told ME!

Message edited by author 2005-12-16 12:55:27.
 12/16/2005 12:55:37 PM · #59
Originally posted by karmat:
Your concern is that once again the heavy-handed, authority driven SC is feeding you line? Correct?

Feeding line, anyway. And if no line is being fed, some extra method of generating income should be lookied into. Isn't there a lot of potential?
 12/16/2005 12:55:57 PM · #60
It appears that the memory dust has now worn off.
 12/16/2005 12:56:04 PM · #61
ok, i'm really frustrated here. please note that i'm not threatening to lock this thread or any b.s. like that.

if i were an admin of this site and saw how much people BITCH about it, i would have pulled the plug on the forums long ago, and i'd be booting people left and right. you have to admit that you get an awful lot for $2 per month, and you still get an amazing amount ABSOLUTELY FREE if you don't want to pay. plenty of people are reading this thread right now without ever having invested a dime into dpc.

when the sc refers to the amount of money this site costs (which it does, no matter what you may think) or the amount of time and effort put into it (which it does, no matter what you may think), it's to get people to keep this site in perspective. a LOT of people have lost their perspective around here and think that participating in dpc is some kind of right granted to them that cannot be revoked.

it's not.

it's a favor done for you by d&l. the paid memberships were to provide enhanced benefits for everyone, but with some special perks to encourage you to pay.

whether or not you think we're lying to you is irrelevant. the point is, we read every single website suggestion. we debate those that have the greatest merit. the admins constantly make improvements to the site as they see fit.

i fail to understand why people bitch about this site so frequently. seems to me that we've all got it pretty good.
 12/16/2005 12:58:45 PM · #62
Originally posted by muckpond:
the admins constantly make improvements to the site as they see fit.


Yeah! Like the new Dpcprints! :) *muck whispers to mav* Oh...sorry, that's been in the works for a little while now...I thought it would be done - or the coding stolen from smugmug by now.

Originally posted by muckpond:
i fail to understand why people bitch about this site so frequently. seems to me that we've all got it pretty good.


Yes, but your "bitch" is another person's "suggestion" just in stronger language and with a reason behind the suggestion.

Message edited by author 2005-12-16 12:59:07.
 12/16/2005 01:03:25 PM · #63
Originally posted by muckpond:
this makes no sense. a 150K photo still eats up 150K of bandwidth whether it takes 3 seconds or 3 minutes to download. bandwidth is the total of all of the data delivered to users. there's no relevance to the speed of the download.

yes, you did come down rather hard, I wasnt asking how much they made, I was asking a simple question.

do you question that if a user only spends about ten minutes of his time on this site, less bandwidth would be used if the site loaded slower?

...does that make sense?

Message edited by author 2005-12-16 13:04:36.
 12/16/2005 01:03:42 PM · #64
Originally posted by muckpond:
ok, i'm really frustrated here. please note that i'm not threatening to lock this thread or any b.s. like that.

if i were an admin of this site and saw how much people BITCH about it, i would have pulled the plug on the forums long ago, and i'd be booting people left and right. you have to admit that you get an awful lot for $2 per month, and you still get an amazing amount ABSOLUTELY FREE if you don't want to pay. plenty of people are reading this thread right now without ever having invested a dime into dpc.

when the sc refers to the amount of money this site costs (which it does, no matter what you may think) or the amount of time and effort put into it (which it does, no matter what you may think), it's to get people to keep this site in perspective. a LOT of people have lost their perspective around here and think that participating in dpc is some kind of right granted to them that cannot be revoked.

it's not.

it's a favor done for you by d&l. the paid memberships were to provide enhanced benefits for everyone, but with some special perks to encourage you to pay.

whether or not you think we're lying to you is irrelevant. the point is, we read every single website suggestion. we debate those that have the greatest merit. the admins constantly make improvements to the site as they see fit.

i fail to understand why people bitch about this site so frequently. seems to me that we've all got it pretty good.


Well said !!! And I could not agree with you more , 25 bucks a years is way to cheap for all of this. I think they should raise it !

Message edited by author 2005-12-16 13:05:18.
 12/16/2005 01:03:58 PM · #65
Originally posted by muckpond:
if i were an admin of this site and saw how much people BITCH about it, i would have pulled the plug on the forums long ago, and i'd be booting people left and right.


unless...um...the owners were making lots of money on it. then you wouldn't pull the plug...right?

I think this place is funny. Don't get me wrong, I've learned more than my $25 worth here and have already referred others to the site.

But this place is still funny...I would find it very strange if the owners weren't making money (in the long run).
 12/16/2005 01:06:39 PM · #66
Originally posted by muckpond:
ok, i'm really frustrated here. please note that i'm not threatening to lock this thread or any b.s. like that.

if i were an admin of this site and saw how much people BITCH about it, i would have pulled the plug on the forums long ago, and i'd be booting people left and right. you have to admit that you get an awful lot for $2 per month, and you still get an amazing amount ABSOLUTELY FREE if you don't want to pay. plenty of people are reading this thread right now without ever having invested a dime into dpc.

when the sc refers to the amount of money this site costs (which it does, no matter what you may think) or the amount of time and effort put into it (which it does, no matter what you may think), it's to get people to keep this site in perspective. a LOT of people have lost their perspective around here and think that participating in dpc is some kind of right granted to them that cannot be revoked.

it's not.

it's a favor done for you by d&l. the paid memberships were to provide enhanced benefits for everyone, but with some special perks to encourage you to pay.

whether or not you think we're lying to you is irrelevant. the point is, we read every single website suggestion. we debate those that have the greatest merit. the admins constantly make improvements to the site as they see fit.

i fail to understand why people bitch about this site so frequently. seems to me that we've all got it pretty good.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This place is by far the best bargain on the internet. No exceptions.

However, your presentation does little justice. I like to pay for what I get and so do most people. It does not advance the cause of the site to be told that we have no benefits but only favors that radiate from a philantrophic heart. You are presenting your argument by insulting the members. Why not raise the price cut and out the such called charity because charity is usually followed by the division of giver and receiver. You imply that we are ingrates who never had it so good. I do not want charity. I rather pay the fee and be treated as a member rather than ingrate.

Message edited by author 2005-12-16 13:08:29.
 12/16/2005 01:08:21 PM · #67
Originally posted by muckpond:
ok, i'm really frustrated here. please note that i'm not threatening to lock this thread or any b.s. like that.

if i were an admin of this site and saw how much people BITCH about it, i would have pulled the plug on the forums long ago, and i'd be booting people left and right. you have to admit that you get an awful lot for $2 per month, and you still get an amazing amount ABSOLUTELY FREE if you don't want to pay. plenty of people are reading this thread right now without ever having invested a dime into dpc.

when the sc refers to the amount of money this site costs (which it does, no matter what you may think) or the amount of time and effort put into it (which it does, no matter what you may think), it's to get people to keep this site in perspective. a LOT of people have lost their perspective around here and think that participating in dpc is some kind of right granted to them that cannot be revoked.

it's not.

it's a favor done for you by d&l. the paid memberships were to provide enhanced benefits for everyone, but with some special perks to encourage you to pay.

whether or not you think we're lying to you is irrelevant. the point is, we read every single website suggestion. we debate those that have the greatest merit. the admins constantly make improvements to the site as they see fit.

i fail to understand why people bitch about this site so frequently. seems to me that we've all got it pretty good.


I'm not bitching about the site at all, I think it's fantastic, and well worth buying into. I posted something along those lines earlier in this thread. I'd love to see D&L make millions from this site.

I'm just tired of hearing the P&L referred to by SC members while the SC members have no idea whether what they're saying is true.

"Booting people left & right" really, LOL.
 12/16/2005 01:11:06 PM · #68
I keep hereing about bandwith costs. I think it would be crazy not to have your own T1 (or greater) line to your own server. Then you would have a fixed budget per month instead of fluctuating costs based on usage per month.

I would be shocked if D&L weren't smart enough to already have this in place.
 12/16/2005 01:11:12 PM · #69
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
"Booting people left & right" really, LOL.


I have about 10 names to add to that list! ;)

Except - if there were a list, I'd be on it! And gone! So no! No list! (heck, coolhar would put Laurie on it and she's one of the nicest people on here so I'm in good company if I go!)
 12/16/2005 01:12:01 PM · #70
BTW...if you really want financial reports, might I suggest you contact D&L and inquire about becoming an investor. I am sure if you'd like to buy $50,000 worth of shares in stock that they might consider providing you with an investor report.

;)

Just because I shop at the deli mart doesn't mean they have to tell me how much they made on that Twinkie I didn't buy.
 12/16/2005 01:14:27 PM · #71
I'm confused. Is the concern D&L are making too much or too little? Either way, I guess they are happy with what they get, and it only cost me $25. (I joined after my first challenge when I realized I would be around a lot and hated not helping to pay for the site.) For me, this is a great place to learn, and gives me ideas for pictures I would probably not come up with on my own. I don't really care how much D&L make, but I do hope they cover expenses so they will keep the site going.
 12/16/2005 01:15:17 PM · #72
The site is copyright to Challenging Technologies LLC - not being a yank, I'm guessing a touch that LLC means something like 'Limited Liability Company'. In the UK, all limited companies are behoven to make their accounts available to anyone who cares to enquire every year - does this not also apply is the US?

If they were based here you could go to Companies House and find out all the details. I don't know about 'cross the pond.

e
 12/16/2005 01:18:58 PM · #73
Helps to read the ENTIRE topic first. I retract

Message edited by author 2005-12-16 13:20:40.
 12/16/2005 01:19:14 PM · #74
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
Originally posted by muckpond:
ok, i'm really frustrated here. please note that i'm not threatening to lock this thread or any b.s. like that.

if i were an admin of this site and saw how much people BITCH about it, i would have pulled the plug on the forums long ago, and i'd be booting people left and right. you have to admit that you get an awful lot for $2 per month, and you still get an amazing amount ABSOLUTELY FREE if you don't want to pay. plenty of people are reading this thread right now without ever having invested a dime into dpc.

when the sc refers to the amount of money this site costs (which it does, no matter what you may think) or the amount of time and effort put into it (which it does, no matter what you may think), it's to get people to keep this site in perspective. a LOT of people have lost their perspective around here and think that participating in dpc is some kind of right granted to them that cannot be revoked.

it's not.

it's a favor done for you by d&l. the paid memberships were to provide enhanced benefits for everyone, but with some special perks to encourage you to pay.

whether or not you think we're lying to you is irrelevant. the point is, we read every single website suggestion. we debate those that have the greatest merit. the admins constantly make improvements to the site as they see fit.

i fail to understand why people bitch about this site so frequently. seems to me that we've all got it pretty good.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This place is by far the best bargain on the internet. No exceptions.

However, your presentation does little justice. I like to pay for what I get and so do most people. It does not advance the cause of the site to be told that we have no benefits but only favors that radiate from a philantrophic heart. You are presenting your argument by insulting the members. Why not raise the price cut and out the such called charity because charity is usually followed by the division of giver and receiver. You imply that we are ingrates who never had it so good. I do not want charity. I rather pay the fee and be treated as a member rather than ingrate.


Oh thank you Graphicfunk! This is what I'm feeling. I'd prefer to pay for my service and not be given the charity speech by SC all the time. So show me the proof or it's all lies.
 12/16/2005 01:36:33 PM · #75
Kudos to you for a well presented post! Nicely stated.

Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:
My guess is D&L do this more for the fun and challenge than for the money. Even if they pocketed $62,000 from this site and the other income generated covered their operating cost, by the time you split it in half, it's only a modest living. And that's assuming that they actually pocket that much net income (which I kind of doubt).

The main point is, nobody is getting rich off of this, and even if they were, what difference does it make? D&L put a lot of hard work and effort into this site probably to challenge their coding skills as well as their photography skills. I have no problem with them reaping financial rewards (however big or small) for their efforts. Kudos to them on a well organized and bandwith friendly site that provides aspiring photographers with a wealth of knowledge and experience.

My $0.02 USD.

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