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12/14/2005 05:49:54 PM · #101 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
The arrogance of some people to think that they know what the topic is;
Don't assume; put yourself in the other photographers' shoes for a minute. |
There is a point where the artist bends the interpretation too far for his audience. This is a failure on the part of the artist to relate to his audience. It will get judged as such.
If the challenge is "Dog" and you enter a "Cat", many will not see, even within the confines of art, your having met the challenge.
;) |
What it comes down to is that it's pretty much pointless to have a topical challenge, if something can be entered (and score well) that in no way actually fits the topic. Eventually they'd all just turn into free studies, because hey, to the unimaginative viewer, it might be a landscape, but to the photographer it's cheese. Since I don't think the way to go would be to abolish topical challenges, I think the voters have to be free to score photos better if they meet the challenge in some discernable way than if they don't. |
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12/14/2005 05:58:03 PM · #102 |
Originally posted by rachelellen:
it's pretty much pointless to have a topical challenge, if something can be entered (and score well) that in no way actually fits the topic. |
A photo won't score well if it doesn't fit the topic.
Originally posted by rachelellen:
I think the voters have to be free to score photos better if they meet the challenge in some discernable way than if they don't. |
That's already part of the rules. "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." |
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12/14/2005 06:02:55 PM · #103 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by rachelellen:
it's pretty much pointless to have a topical challenge, if something can be entered (and score well) that in no way actually fits the topic. |
A photo won't score well if it doesn't fit the topic.
Originally posted by rachelellen:
I think the voters have to be free to score photos better if they meet the challenge in some discernable way than if they don't. |
That's already part of the rules. "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." |
Right, I wasn't disputing that. I was just saying that I disagree with the people who seem to think that scores should be given with no consideration for whether the photo meets the challenge since 'art is all about individual interpretation' or the like. |
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12/14/2005 06:05:53 PM · #104 |
| I just checked my photo and noticed I was getting ripped on the scores - my lowest so far! and then read some of the comments. Looks like I was one of the idiots who read just the theme and not the desctiption before posting. Now I have to accept my punishment! Just throw cheese at me! I have had entries in the past which (to me and most other viewers) thought met the challenge and still recieved some "does not meet the theme" comments, but this time I can say that they are truely deserved! Oh well, it is not the end of the world! This is supposed to be all for fun and education but some people do seem to take it extremely seriously. |
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12/14/2005 06:10:31 PM · #105 |
| my scores are so bad that they actually reflect the true quality of my work, instead of the fact I was off topic! |
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12/14/2005 06:25:19 PM · #106 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Oh, look! My favorite! Whine and Cheese by Candlelight!
%} |
Touche KaDi |
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12/14/2005 08:37:34 PM · #107 |
| Gotta say that I totally mis-read this challange ... thought we were looking for pictures of people who are saying "Cheese" ie the old photographers cliche ... and the "use cheese in your photo" represented the cliche and the "auidence" was the subject of your photo ... |
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12/14/2005 08:50:42 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by gooc:
LOL
how about this comment ?
" difficult to criticize this title "say cheese" which in the dictionary called for photography "small smile" "
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I had this same comment, but this sweetheart came back and changed it to something SOOOoooo sweet. It really touched my heart. Thank you, whoever you are!!!!
Message edited by muckpond - fixed quote. |
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12/14/2005 09:47:29 PM · #109 |
Here we go: I got hold of a left brain Judge and several culprits. First up is member "Starlight"
Judge: Did you use cheese in your picture?
Starlight: No, your honor
Judge: Can you explain why?
Starlight: while the instructions said to use chees as the subject to make the voter smile, or something to that effect, it did not say use the subject directly in the composition. I opted to imply.
Judge: you have a lot of nerve to take such liberty. Hang this guy twinkles or whatever his name is.
Next:
Judge: Did you use cheese in your picture?
Gadfly: Yes.
Judge: What percentage area of the image consist of cheese?
Gadfly: Maybe 5 percent.
Judge: You enter a cheese challenge and you have the temerity to occupy 5 percent of the visible area?
Gadfly: Your honor, I had this big burly guy with big appetite holding like a dime of cheese in hid big hands.
Judge: Never mind. Answer this: if I looked at the image can I identify as cheese?
Gadfly: Gee, there is not much problem with swiss but I used gouda.
Judge: Gouda, ah. means he could have been holding clay or plastic. Your image has no cheese texture?
Gadfly: Too small to discern that your honor.
Judge: Hang this Gadfly.
Next:
Judge: Did you use cheese in your picture?
Incoherent: Yes.
Judge: how much of your image is cheese?
Incoherent: I think about 60 percent.
Judge: If I look at the image can I identify it as cheese?
Incoherent: Sir, I am an artist and not too good with lighting so I opted to disguise the true texture and color. You know, an artistic rendering.
Judge: We can not have members taking such liberties. It is a threat to all that is good and decent. How can a state run, how can a language survive with artist going around changing everything and giving new meanings to words. No mister, If you chose not to show texture and color true to cheese you are guilty of misrepresentation. Is there anything else you want to say before I hang you?
Incoherent: Your honor, it said use cheese as the subject but it did not define fidelity...
Judge: Enough nonsense. How can you use a subject and not give it its due rendition. You see, this is what artist do and up to me I would hang them all. Hang this Incoherent guy.
A prologue my His Honor:
When I go to a restaurant and ask for a cup of regular coffee with no sugar that is what I want. I do not want coffee with sugar or coffee that is light or worse a late.
We have a language and artist has taken it upon themselves to make the language dynamic so as to suit their immediate aim, meanwhile those of us right folks who play by the rules are left out. The poet has done as much harm by raising the meaning of words to worlds that leave us simple folks behind. We want none of that. If this challenge called for cheese then I want to see cheese and I want to smile at its use or its composition in the image. I do not care how boring your image is, but I want no free play. No cheese and no smile and you are in trouble. Hide the cheese and you are in trouble. No texture and you are trouble. If your are behind in your skills and the color balance is way off you are in trouble. Don't show me you art, I do not want to see it. Poetry too, puts me to sleep
Now, there are a couple of exemptions. How funny is the image? If it makes me smile and the cheese is present but not rendered in true fidelity then I may vote such an image a 5. My personal voting average is 4.7 so I do not throw 7's like pennies in a fountain. If the technique is perfect and the cheese identifiable you get another 5. Outside of this, there is not much reasonable man like me can do otherwise we will be inviting chaos. get rid of the artist, the poet and it will be a better world for us straight shooters. Getting rid of lawyers too will be a blessing. They trap the language in a vise and they put us to sleep when they take on the side of wrong and defend it as if they as if they really believed what they are saying. All of these people are making the world unsafe.
Message edited by author 2005-12-14 22:50:43. |
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12/14/2005 11:26:09 PM · #110 |
That's a really cheesy stunt you just pulled there, Daniel. Any last words before we hang you from a scaffolding of cheese logs with a rope made of string cheese?
R. |
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12/15/2005 12:40:53 AM · #111 |
| The real kicker is that if all 105 entries had cheese in them, we'd be complaining about how unimaginative the shots were and there there were at least 30 showing nothing but blocks of cheese on a white background and another 30 showing nothing but blocks of cheese on a black background... |
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12/15/2005 12:43:12 AM · #112 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The real kicker is that if all 105 entries had cheese in them, we'd be complaining about how unimaginative the shots were and there there were at least 30 showing nothing but blocks of cheese on a white background and another 30 showing nothing but blocks of cheese on a black background... |
Not true. I didn't see complaints about all the silverware in the KNife Fork Spoon challenge. |
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12/15/2005 12:48:24 AM · #113 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The real kicker is that if all 105 entries had cheese in them, we'd be complaining about how unimaginative the shots were and there there were at least 30 showing nothing but blocks of cheese on a white background and another 30 showing nothing but blocks of cheese on a black background... |
Not true. I didn't see complaints about all the silverware in the KNife Fork Spoon challenge. |
Personally I think the Knife Fork Spoon challenge had much more room for application. Maybe I just thought that Say Cheese was a poorly thought out challenge in title, wording, and ultimate breadth of application, especially since we had Dairy, what, two months ago? Were people all screaming that they had so many shots to choose from they couldn't all get them in?
Message edited by author 2005-12-15 00:49:20. |
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12/15/2005 01:06:58 AM · #114 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Maybe I just thought that Say Cheese was a poorly thought out challenge in title, wording, and ultimate breadth of application |
Agreed. But that just makes it more of a challenge. I've seen some amazing entries in mundane challenges where the photog stayed on topic, but got very creative. Scalvert (master of this sort of thing) in the KFS challenge is a good example.
In "Cheese" I can understand people not reading the challenge description properly or trying the typical title-shoehorn routine, but some entries were blatantly flaunting excellent photos that they knew were off topic - those just irk the crap out of me. Sorry, but they do. And (I say this all the time) it is the voter whose viewpoint matters for that individual vote, NOT the photog. It is not the voter's responsibility to assume anything - it is the photographer's responsibility to cater to the voters individually and as a whole. Of course that only applies if you care about your score or placement in a challenge.
But don't call me narrow minded if I think your photo doesn't meet the challenge or if I just plain don't like it for whatever reason. Just be thankful there's only one of me. ;-)
ps - not referring to anyone specific calling me narrow minded, just general comments people make about how others should or should not vote - that irks me as much as that other thing I mentioned above. |
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12/15/2005 02:28:38 AM · #115 |
Took a look at my shot for the challenge. Many comments asking for cheese (food) and sending compliments for the picture (which clearly has a cheese in it with the other interpretation - really not difficult to see!!!) stating that they lowererd the score for this reason.
Punished :-(
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12/15/2005 07:04:25 AM · #116 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Originally posted by gooc:
LOL
how about this comment ?
" difficult to criticize this title "say cheese" which in the dictionary called for photography "small smile" "
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I had this same comment, but this sweetheart came back and changed it to something SOOOoooo sweet. It really touched my heart. Thank you, whoever you are!!!! |
I had communication with the gentleman who left that original comment. I finally wrote him in French after which he responded that he now understood what the challenge meant and he was going to reevaluate his comments and votes. He did this as he changed the comment on my shot as well. (I did not tell him which entry was mine) |
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12/15/2005 07:25:51 AM · #117 |
This is nothing new, in most of the challenges there are entries that have nothing to do with the subject challange (IMO that is!)
I dont know if it is because of people not reading the challange details or misreading or just ignoring it altogether!
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12/15/2005 07:30:32 AM · #118 |
Originally posted by MikeOwens:
This is nothing new, in most of the challenges there are entries that have nothing to do with the subject challange (IMO that is!)
I dont know if it is because of people not reading the challange details or misreading or just ignoring it altogether! |
Yes, don't you think that both interpretations are correct given the description? I think so. Why is people so hard (from the comments I read) in searching for cheese where there's a cheesy smile and in searching for a smile where there's cheese?
I can understand this if I find a landscape or a sunset. |
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12/15/2005 07:36:43 AM · #119 |
Originally posted by srugolo:
Originally posted by MikeOwens:
This is nothing new, in most of the challenges there are entries that have nothing to do with the subject challange (IMO that is!)
I dont know if it is because of people not reading the challange details or misreading or just ignoring it altogether! |
Yes, don't you think that both interpretations are correct given the description? I think so. Why is people so hard (from the comments I read) in searching for cheese where there's a cheesy smile and in searching for a smile where there's cheese?
I can understand this if I find a landscape or a sunset. |
At the end of the day it is up to what YOU as an individual see is right when voting on a challenge. Everybody has different ideas....but sometimes with some of the entries people have ignored the challenge details so obviously.
:-)
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12/15/2005 09:38:33 AM · #120 |
Originally posted by seebrown:
Gotta say that I totally mis-read this challange ... thought we were looking for pictures of people who are saying "Cheese" ie the old photographers cliche ... and the "use cheese in your photo" represented the cliche and the "auidence" was the subject of your photo ... |
You read it right. Its just a matter of opinion or having your head up your a$$. Really depends on how you look at things.
Was the cup half empty or half full.
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12/15/2005 09:43:24 AM · #121 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Originally posted by gooc:
LOL
how about this comment ?
" difficult to criticize this title "say cheese" which in the dictionary called for photography "small smile" "
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I had this same comment, but this sweetheart came back and changed it to something SOOOoooo sweet. It really touched my heart. Thank you, whoever you are!!!! |
I had communication with the gentleman who left that original comment. I finally wrote him in French after which he responded that he now understood what the challenge meant and he was going to reevaluate his comments and votes. He did this as he changed the comment on my shot as well. (I did not tell him which entry was mine) |
Well, I didn't write him. Wasn't going to, but whatever you said changed his mind completely on my photo, for the good. Thanks! Rose |
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12/15/2005 10:04:58 AM · #122 |
What a cheesy, entertaining thread.
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12/15/2005 10:10:22 AM · #123 |
Hi all,
I read the Title, then the Details, concentrated on the Title, dismissed the details, ate some cheese and then my mind exploded. |
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12/15/2005 10:15:19 AM · #124 |
The final outcome of these threads runs as follows. The conscientious readers and interpreters come down on the outcast. The thread develops a little heat of academic points being driven down like nails and as a happy ending the pedagogic group will vote down the outcast and the outcast will vote down the pedagogic group.
I believe that the final score will tell the story. What point or advantage is gained by enraging any member with pedagogic comments. Better to vote and move on. In all challenges it appears that 75 percent of all images fit. It is better to concentrate on leaving comments that help the member photographically. There will always be some members that misread the instruction, they pay for it and their score will tell them more than the advise of those that know better. Also keep in mind that the challenge descriptions are translated by those that may not be fluent in English.
A lot of this energy may be put to better advantage. |
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12/15/2005 10:35:14 AM · #125 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The real kicker is that if all 105 entries had cheese in them, we'd be complaining about how unimaginative the shots were and there there were at least 30 showing nothing but blocks of cheese on a white background and another 30 showing nothing but blocks of cheese on a black background... |
And then there's mine, with comments about "where's the background" and "too close"... ::sigh::
As ususal, there is no spoon.
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