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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Another 'Did they read the Details' post? - Cheese
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 12/14/2005 01:46:26 PM · #76
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If the challenge were only "Say Cheese", there would be far less of this nazi mentality and more room for creativity.


Hardly. Half the group would assume it's a portrait challenge, and the other half would shoot dairy products (with both sides complaining about the other). We've had no-description challenges before, and it doesn't seem to make much difference.


Are you referring to "what?" or to challenges before I arrived? I'm not saying the DNMC would disappear, it will always exist, but I feel it would at least take a more macroscopic view. Take candlelight. The description is what is leading to the "should the candle be in the picture or not?" debate, not the title. Sure there will be people who think cheese means a) the dairy product or b) a smile or c) kitsch, but they will not have something to base their opinion on. This will lead many (but not all) to allow the idea that maybe they are "wrong" and not the entry and also will lead to less flame-on posts due to the lack of a banner to rally around (it says IMPACT dammit!)
 12/14/2005 01:53:34 PM · #77
can i kill this thread so that at least i can up my kill thread score
 12/14/2005 01:54:39 PM · #78
Originally posted by melodee:
can i kill this thread so that at least i can up my kill thread score


Dr. Achoo said "nazi" and it didn't die...what are you bringing to the table?

edit: spelling

Message edited by author 2005-12-14 13:55:09.
 12/14/2005 02:09:10 PM · #79
There is a contradiction in this challenge theme, as I see it: if someone wanted this to be a challenge with cheese, literally, as the main subject, then why use the title "say cheese" which has a very specific meaning? I mean, when you use this expression you don't want to imply cheese as such, right? It's about smiling, as if you were saying "cheese". On the other part, if someone wanted this to be a challenge about smiles, a portrait challenge, why use the description "use cheese as the subject of your photo"? It's a matter of language but I think that the description and the title should be related by meaning (logical) and not simply by the fact that some term appears in both of them.
 12/14/2005 02:13:10 PM · #80
Originally posted by Montague:
There is a contradiction in this challenge theme, as I see it: if someone wanted this to be a challenge with cheese, literally, as the main subject, then why use the title "say cheese" which has a very specific meaning? I mean, when you use this expression you don't want to imply cheese as such, right? It's about smiling, as if you were saying "cheese". On the other part, if someone wanted this to be a challenge about smiles, a portrait challenge, why use the description "use cheese as the subject of your photo"? It's a matter of language but I think that the description and the title should be related by meaning (logical) and not simply by the fact that some term appears in both of them.


Perhaps the title is telling you the photographer to say cheese because that's what this topic is all about.
 12/14/2005 02:47:02 PM · #81
Originally posted by Montague:
There is a contradiction in this challenge theme, as I see it: if someone wanted this to be a challenge with cheese, literally, as the main subject, then why use the title "say cheese" which has a very specific meaning? I mean, when you use this expression you don't want to imply cheese as such, right? It's about smiling, as if you were saying "cheese". On the other part, if someone wanted this to be a challenge about smiles, a portrait challenge, why use the description "use cheese as the subject of your photo"? It's a matter of language but I think that the description and the title should be related by meaning (logical) and not simply by the fact that some term appears in both of them.


I agree with the fact that it is contridicting. In some challenges in other areas, and for just an example, a challenge "name" may have a play on words itself.

Let's say for example the challenge name is "Fly me to the moon". When you open it for details, the description says "Take your best photo of anything that flies. It must be something that actually flies, and not something you make fly". In that case, the Fly Me To The Moon does not imply you take shots of the moon.

Another example could be "I WOOD if I could". You open it for details and it says "take photos of any type of wood". It does not imply you show yourself trying to lift a two-ton boulder.

The list goes on and on. For one more, the name of the challenge could be "Spinning Wheel". Description? "Take a shot of any wheel. "A" wheel must be the main focus of the shot." It does not imply you take a photo of ANYTHING that spins.

Therefore, in "Say Cheese", it too as the name of the challenge CAN mean just a sort of play on the actual challenge. When you open it up for details, it says to actually "USE CHEESE as the SUBJECT of your photo to make the audience smile". The first part about "The old photographer's cliche`", to me, seemed like an opening statement using an old photographers line as an amusing segway to the actual "cheese" description (the second sentence and more succinct description of the challenge).

Therefore, for me, I had no second guesses about this challenge, and actual dairy cheese should be used, IN my opinion, by the way it IS worded.

Rose

Message edited by author 2005-12-14 14:49:48.
 12/14/2005 02:51:49 PM · #82
If it was easy, we wouldn't call them "challenges", now would we? :-)

R.
 12/14/2005 02:55:15 PM · #83
Originally posted by hokie:

Shannon is dead right on this.

Go back to the very beginning of DP Challenge. This argument has been going on for what..almost 4 years. Everybody has THE answer..if only everyone else was smart enough to listen to them.


The main problem is humanity, the second problem is the english language. But publishing the challenges in binary and having computers interpret just isn't viable and not very artistic either.

So we deal...hence, I DNMC seldom loses more than a point or two with me. Unless I feel the author is being blatant. (ie: a portrait on a white studio background for a "nature landscape" shot.)

*lol*
 12/14/2005 02:57:13 PM · #84
This really makes me laugh. All over cheese!
The arrogance of some people to think that they know what the topic is;
Don't assume; put yourself in the other photographers' shoes for a minute.

Its up to interpretation. Its got to be, that is, if it is art and not accounting.
 12/14/2005 03:25:52 PM · #85
Originally posted by blindjustice:
The arrogance of some people to think that they know what the topic is


Yeesh! We've created a muenster! Goudas anybody know what the REAL intention is? No matter how firm edam description is, it'll still brie subject to interpretation and anybody who says otherwise doesn't know jack. Ricotta just take our best guess and hope we don't look like goats at the end.

Hehe... havarti think I can go with this? ;-)
 12/14/2005 03:27:53 PM · #86
Originally posted by blindjustice:
The arrogance of some people to think that they know what the topic is;
Don't assume; put yourself in the other photographers' shoes for a minute.


There is a point where the artist bends the interpretation too far for his audience. This is a failure on the part of the artist to relate to his audience. It will get judged as such.

If the challenge is "Dog" and you enter a "Cat", many will not see, even within the confines of art, your having met the challenge.

And I don't think deciding such is arrogance, merely observance and interpretation. To tell the audience they are unable to vote on such is even more arrogant. Why should we have a voting scale? shouldn't it just be a 10, God forbid we be so arrogant as to vote anyone's art less than a 10. How dare we show such arrogance as to judge them and their art.

;)
 12/14/2005 03:28:30 PM · #87
Originally posted by blindjustice:
This really makes me laugh. All over cheese!
The arrogance of some people to think that they know what the topic is;
Don't assume; put yourself in the other photographers' shoes for a minute.

Its up to interpretation. Its got to be, that is, if it is art and not accounting.


Well, LOL..CHEESE is the topic, and topics in contests, and contests themselves, are taken seriously here at DPC for various reasons we all have. Be it the competition, the learning experience, to better ourselves photographically, or whathaveyou. So such debate is good along these lines - even if it is about cheese. We do need to clarify so that those experiences can maintain their dignity.

By they way, you stated earlier that it says "Use cheese as a subject ...". It says "THE subject" and not a subject. Big difference in my opinion.

I also agree that I won't probably eat any cheese for a month after this thread and contest..LOL...but let's get real. We all know what the word "cheese" means. When you see the word cheese, and it says to make it the subject of your photo, I can pretty much guarantee that the majority are not going to interpret it as smiles. And the entries show just that.

Rose
 12/14/2005 03:28:43 PM · #88
I'm scared about this, but can I timorously affirm that since 50% interpreted cheese in one way and 50% in the other one, at least this two subjects are OK (even for DNMC nazis) just as an observation of facts?

This thread and the comments are the demonstration that the description left space for interpretation and I personally don't think this is a problem or diminish the fun...


12/14/2005 03:28:54 PM · #89
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
The arrogance of some people to think that they know what the topic is


Yeesh! We've created a muenster! Goudas anybody know what the REAL intention is? No matter how firm edam description is, it'll still brie subject to interpretation and anybody who says otherwise doesn't know jack. Ricotta just take our best guess and hope we don't look like goats at the end.

Hehe... havarti think I can go with this? ;-)


Wow...you really shredded them with that reply, bet it's really going to grate on the nerves of some readers....

;)
 12/14/2005 03:31:20 PM · #90
Grate reply Saj, I was trying to mold all the references in there, but I bleu it.
 12/14/2005 03:32:15 PM · #91
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
The arrogance of some people to think that they know what the topic is


Yeesh! We've created a muenster! Goudas anybody know what the REAL intention is? No matter how firm edam description is, it'll still brie subject to interpretation and anybody who says otherwise doesn't know jack. Ricotta just take our best guess and hope we don't look like goats at the end.

Hehe... havarti think I can go with this? ;-)


That was SO CUTE! BUT, you forgot to put in "monteray" before that word jack fotomann! LOL...By the way, how are "YOU" doing with your smile? I mean cheese? I mean portrait, or is it a landscape? LOL...OH nevermind. We can discuss that on the other cheddar thread.

Rose
 12/14/2005 03:32:49 PM · #92
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
The arrogance of some people to think that they know what the topic is

Yeesh! We've created a muenster! Goudas anybody know what the REAL intention is? No matter how firm edam description is, it'll still brie subject to interpretation and anybody who says otherwise doesn't know jack. Ricotta just take our best guess and hope we don't look like goats at the end.
Hehe... havarti think I can go with this? ;-)

Wow...you really shredded them with that reply, bet it's really going to grate on the nerves of some readers....
;)


I agree! Rather sharp, Shannon! Cheddar take a moment to let your idea age.
 12/14/2005 03:47:08 PM · #93
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
The arrogance of some people to think that they know what the topic is

Yeesh! We've created a muenster! Goudas anybody know what the REAL intention is? No matter how firm edam description is, it'll still brie subject to interpretation and anybody who says otherwise doesn't know jack. Ricotta just take our best guess and hope we don't look like goats at the end.
Hehe... havarti think I can go with this? ;-)

Wow...you really shredded them with that reply, bet it's really going to grate on the nerves of some readers....
;)


I agree! Rather sharp, Shannon! Cheddar take a moment to let your idea age.


You may think you've taken the Liederkrantz with that comment, but its just one Stilton viewpoint.
 12/14/2005 03:49:25 PM · #94
I have not the skill nor eloquence to post a functional reply, perhaps we must agree to disagree;

but I remember a post by ZeusZen, that was eloquent, and he did not feel he should judge otheres to the topic, and he convinced me;

as to the cheese puns, perhaps saving a little mental energy is necessary to properly judge whether a contestant meets the challenge;

Now you should knock it off brie-fore I am forced to alert the town gryuere, if that be the queso.
 12/14/2005 03:52:32 PM · #95
For the eatification of the cheese gourmets:

"Cheese Shop"
 12/14/2005 03:59:58 PM · #96
Originally posted by blindjustice:
as to the cheese puns, perhaps saving a little mental energy is necessary to properly judge whether a contestant meets the challenge;
Now you should knock it off brie-fore I am forced to alert the town gryuere, if that be the queso.


Ricotta hand it to you, you make points worthy of a Savoyard. But before you go Boursin your opinions too far, know that some of us are still being worked and are minds were smoked hours ago. Of course, that's Cheshire my point of view.
 12/14/2005 04:31:18 PM · #97
Originally posted by scalvert:
Grate reply Saj, I was trying to mold all the references in there, but I bleu it.


You gouda work harder...but yorkshire to get there eventually!
 12/14/2005 04:33:54 PM · #98
As for me, both my Cheese & Candle scores have been falling steadily by 1-2 .x's.

:\

Candle: 4.7111 (from approx 4.9)
Cheese: 5.2500 (from approx 5.5)
 12/14/2005 05:19:33 PM · #99
Originally posted by theSaj:
As for me, both my Cheese & Candle scores have been falling steadily by 1-2 .x's.
:\
Candle: 4.7111 (from approx 4.9)
Cheese: 5.2500 (from approx 5.5)


Oh, look! My favorite! Whine and Cheese by Candlelight!
%}
 12/14/2005 05:42:12 PM · #100
You know what... in the end it doesn't matter two figs if people are DNMC Nazis and vote 1s to everything that doesn't have Roquefort in it, or liberals who vote pictures of cows as 10s.

What matters in the end is that they vote every photo in a challenge using the same criteria.

As long as the same standard is used to judge every photo in a challenge, then that person's vote is valid.
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