Let's leave it like it is.... - DPChallenge Forums

12/14/2005 12:48:38 PM · #27

Originally posted by mk:

...So is this thread not sharing ideas? It doesn't really seem unfair that amidst the numerous "change this," "all the 'good photographers' are leaving," "this site is an ancient piece of crap" posts that there be one started by someone who actually likes things the way they are. Especially if we're going to use the number of threads started about a particular subject to be the judge of how wanted it is....

What idea is this thread sharing? It is a blanket generalization about suggestion threads. It would be the same as making a thread that says "I don't like this site" but never states any reasons why or suggest how to fix things.

If the intention of the thread is just to pat the website on the back and say "good job" why bring in other threads to try and degrade them?

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

12/14/2005 12:49:53 PM · #28

Originally posted by megatherian:

Just because an idea was brought up 2 years ago doesn't mean it is still relevant today - and if the same problem is brought up again it just means it was never properly addressed.

Alternatively, it could mean that people did not listen to the logical reasoning and facts for and against, and just wanted what was best for them (like the pic size issue, and the low score forced-comment issue).

Or could it be that because this site has dozens of new people vist every day that someone that wasn't here 2 years ago simpley wasn't aware that this has already been discussed.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

12/14/2005 12:49:55 PM · #29

Originally posted by megatherian:

... and if the same problem is brought up again it just means it was never properly addressed.

No, usually it means that the person bringing it up for the umpteenth time never bothered to look at the discussions that went on before. So then the same discussions happen over and over.

hyperfocal

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 105mm f/2.5 AIS

12/14/2005 12:53:51 PM · #30

Originally posted by coolhar:

It may seem antiquated to you but try to tell that to the folks that live where 28k is the only access available. And to the folks that can't afford to updgrade their equipment every time a new technology comes onto the market.

Photos that contain a lot of detail don't do well on dpc. I regret that because I like those kind of photos myself, both for viewing and in the making. But I doubt that a larger image size would change that. It's just a part of the popular taste here at dpc.

I'm sympathetic for people who live in areas where broadband is not available. My suggestion is to pressure their elected officials to build better infrastructure.

As far as folks who can't afford to upgrade to the latest equipment, I would assume that if they are here that they have a slightly more than average interest in photography. As such one would think that a decent monitor is an essential part of digital photography. I donâ��t have to have the latest and greatest equipment. I milked my Apple PM7500 for about 5 years, before upgrading. My current system the monitor costs more than the CPU. But I guess it is just a matter of priorities, like my camera rig is worth more than my car.

My point is the current restrictions limit the type of photos that do well here. Photos that have lots of details just donâ��t compress well. Anything that places limits on the type of photographs should be addressed and upgraded.

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/14/2005 12:55:47 PM · #31

Originally posted by megatherian:

If the intention of the thread is just to pat the website on the back and say "good job" why bring in other threads to try and degrade them?

I think the intention was to respond to the people who were pointing out how many times certain issues have been brought up and using that as justification for implementing those ideas. "There's been 27 posts about upping the size so that means everyone wants it!" Not necessarily true.

I'm not sure why, if you think people should be allowed to make suggestions, one of those suggestions can't be that people like it how it is. It's not like they're asking to remove everyone who dares to suggest otherwise. It's just an opinion, like all the other threads.

12/14/2005 12:55:47 PM · #32

You know something I like about DPC? The 'Update' button! ;^)

I also like the way they've updated the profile page for members. The 25mb of storage is also cool. And just recently I was surprised by the added column on the profile page that let's me sort my portfolio pics by date uploaded...hadn't noticed that before.

Thanks D&L - Keep up the great work! ;^)

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/14/2005 12:58:18 PM · #33

Originally posted by hyperfocal:

more than the CPU. But I guess it is just a matter of priorities,

Sure is. I prioritise to buy food and keep my heat turned on instead of buying a larger monitor so that i too can feel the need to alienate the other 86%. Gosh, where is my head at? :p

Canon EOS-20D

12/14/2005 12:59:25 PM · #34

Originally posted by mesmeraj:

Sure is. I prioritise to buy food and keep my heat turned on instead of buying a larger monitor so that i too can feel the need to alienate the other 86%. Gosh, where is my head at? :p

Under your stupid amount of curly hair. ;)

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

12/14/2005 01:00:07 PM · #35

dammit MK - i didnt think to look there!!

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

12/14/2005 01:02:00 PM · #36

Originally posted by hyperfocal:

640 150k are just too antiquated. Update to a modern monitor (or just deal with scrolling). Why should the majority be held down to pacify the few? Plus, and more importantly, photographs that place emphasis in the details are being overlooked because of the small presentation.

Personally I have decided not to enter a few photographs that I couldnâ��t get to look good at 150k.

First and foremost the site is run as a business so majority doesn't rule here. Business decisions are based on compromise.

Message edited by author 2005-12-14 13:02:13.

12/14/2005 01:02:41 PM · #37

Originally posted by hyperfocal:

I'm sympathetic for people who live in areas where broadband is not available. My suggestion is to pressure their elected officials to build better infrastructure.

Live in the country...not available (no cable, no DSL, could get satellite but VERY expensive for internet) and better infrastructure would be better suited to improving the roads.

Originally posted by hyperfocal:

...But I guess it is just a matter of priorities, like my camera rig is worth more than my car.

I like that one. ;^) I don't think I'll ever have enough equipment to surpass the value of my vehicle.

Originally posted by hyperfocal:

... Anything that places limits on the type of photographs should be addressed and upgraded.

There are ALWAYS going to be limits...

12/14/2005 01:06:51 PM · #38

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by megatherian:

... and if the same problem is brought up again it just means it was never properly addressed.

No, usually it means that the person bringing it up for the umpteenth time never bothered to look at the discussions that went on before. So then the same discussions happen over and over.

Another way of looking at it is that the person brought up a problem and though they may not have the correct solution the problem remains the same. Often times the solution is argued over and over again without either side really looking at the problem.

When I say the problem was not properly addressed I mean just that. Just because it was decided the person's solution would not work does not mean the actual problem was addressed. I believe often times people start threads that address a problem not because they didn't like the result of the last discussion but because the problem was never properly addressed and a new idea is brought forth. Rather than really seeing the problem and listening to the new suggested solution though many people just dismiss it blanketly and say the issue has already been discussed.

With that said I know I am speaking in some generalities too. I understand that many people do not see the threads brought up as problems - but at least one person does. Rather than bash them for speaking up we should be encouraging them to share their opinion and trying to think of solutions that will make this place better for everyone - whether their solution will work or not.

12/14/2005 01:10:06 PM · #39

Originally posted by megatherian:

... Another way of looking at it is that the person brought up a problem and though they may not have the correct solution the problem remains the same. Often times the solution is argued over and over again without either side really looking at the problem.

You're making an assumption that there is a problem in the first place. May not be. Problems are one thing, suggestions are another. Usually a suggestion is considered as a "nice to have" given the opportunity to work it in.

Olympus 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 Zuiko Digital Zoom

12/14/2005 01:10:19 PM · #40

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by megatherian:

If the intention of the thread is just to pat the website on the back and say "good job" why bring in other threads to try and degrade them?

I think the intention was to respond to the people who were pointing out how many times certain issues have been brought up and using that as justification for implementing those ideas. "There's been 27 posts about upping the size so that means everyone wants it!" Not necessarily true.

I'm not sure why, if you think people should be allowed to make suggestions, one of those suggestions can't be that people like it how it is. It's not like they're asking to remove everyone who dares to suggest otherwise. It's just an opinion, like all the other threads.

I don't have a problem with giving the site a pat on the back. I guess my confusion is with this being in the suggestions thread. Perhaps I misinterpreted what the suggestion part of the post is, if I did I apologize.

MQuinn

Olympus OM-D E-M1

12/14/2005 01:12:20 PM · #41

Originally posted by hyperfocal:

I dunno, personally I kind of like trying to get a photo to look good 640x Its a challenge after all. Im far from mastering it, but it makes for some good learning. I first started off on this site with a 1.2 MP camera, heck my Landscape entry I actually had to enlarge to get to the 640 limit with the crop I used. I like DPC the way it is, each one of the photos on the home page have a ton of detail and made it under 150k 640x rule.

12/14/2005 01:14:56 PM · #42

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by megatherian:
... Another way of looking at it is that the person brought up a problem and though they may not have the correct solution the problem remains the same. Often times the solution is argued over and over again without either side really looking at the problem.

You're making an assumption that there is a problem in the first place. May not be. Problems are one thing, suggestions are another. Usually a suggestion is considered as a "nice to have" given the opportunity to work it in.

We could go round and round on semantic debates over the word problem so I'm just try and clarify what I meant by problem.

There is something the OP of the suggestion thread would like changed, be it because they don't like the way it works now or they would like an improvement. Either way they are not as content with the way things are as they could be. This is what I equated to the word problem.

edited for drunken fingers (spelling)

Message edited by author 2005-12-14 13:16:23.

hyperfocal

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 105mm f/2.5 AIS

12/14/2005 01:21:06 PM · #43

Originally posted by mesmeraj:

I wish i could afford to be as blase as you. Must be nice to think that the world is rolling in cash that they can spend on anything they like.
Not everyone can just up and buy a new monitor. And fact of the matter is 86% of internet users used 1024x782 or lower screen resolution - so why should the majority be put out of place to pacify the few?

I'm not being blasÃ© about it. My family falls well below the national mean income, and we count every penny. It sickens me to see the waste in my society like driving a two ton + SUVs or the waste of fast food. I would be the last person to advocate spending money just to keep up with the Jonesâ��s.

Some of the poorest people I know are struggling musicians. They live in shacks, skip meals, and bum rides, but almost without exception they all have nice instruments (functionally if not cosmetically).

I would think that DPCers would be the same with their camera related equipment. I donâ��t care that my CPU takes 3 minutes to apply a filter if it looks good when itâ��s done. Also it doesnâ��t take much money to get a decent monitor. The used market if flooded with decent CRTs now that LCDs are so popular. Iâ��ve seen good 17â�� monitors go for free on sites like freecycle.org.

Lastly, your point about 86% of Internet users used 1024x782 or lower screen resolution is skewed due to the huge percentage of corporate Internet connections where 14 and 15â�� monitors are the norm. I really doubt that if you took a poll of self described advanced amateur photographers would the numbers be nearly that high.

12/14/2005 01:22:23 PM · #44

Originally posted by megatherian:

Another way of looking at it is that the person brought up a problem and though they may not have the correct solution the problem remains the same.

Yet another way to look at it is to consider that D&L don't think it is a problem, and therefore doesn't need addressing. Afterall they have the final say, and the rest is just speculation.

12/14/2005 01:24:09 PM · #45

Did I mention I really like the way D&L added the 'Lenses' feature under 'Equipment'? Looking for a DSLR in the future and this area of DPC is a great reference source.

Oops. I guess that's not a 'leave it like it is...' because they made an improvement (one of many) to this site. ;^)

12/14/2005 01:29:36 PM · #46

Originally posted by mesmeraj:

Originally posted by megatherian:
Another way of looking at it is that the person brought up a problem and though they may not have the correct solution the problem remains the same.

Yet another way to look at it is to consider that D&L don't think it is a problem, and therefore doesn't need addressing. Afterall they have the final say, and the rest is just speculation.

And they never will see it as a problem if people don't present it. The more well thought out logical discussion we can have about something the better off we'll all be. (In my opinion)

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

12/14/2005 01:30:55 PM · #47

Originally posted by hyperfocal:

I would be the last person to advocate spending money just to keep up with the Jonesâ��s.

So you take back your comment that we should all by better monitors or "deal with it"?
Because that is suggesting we need to keep up with the photographic Jones.

Again, the priority of keeping the heat on comes above being able to afford the nice gear you expect photogs to have. If you see freecycle monitor postings for rural kentucky with free delivery, you just let me know :)

coolhar

12/14/2005 01:33:28 PM · #48

Originally posted by hyperfocal:

... I'm sympathetic for people who live in areas where broadband is not available. My suggestion is to pressure their elected officials to build better infrastructure. ...

The way the current laws are set up in the USA only Congress can effect broadband infrastructure, not local or state level elected officials. This follows the model set up by the cable TV industry when the internet and broadband were just a twinkle of tne hi-tech horizon.

Congress has been under very heavy pressue on this issue, probably in the top 5 most heavily lobbied issues over the past five years or so. But that pressure is coming from providers and equipment suppliers who can't agree on how to split up the immense profits, and very little is being integrated into the debate that would be in the interest of consumers. That is how the American free enterprise system works in the 21st century.

12/14/2005 01:36:51 PM · #49

I think the 'Jones' are a very diverse group. The 'Jones' being DPChallenge members. Not only do we have a wide geographical representation, but also an photography experience range as well with levels ranging from people new to photography all the way to professionals earning a living at photography.

This being said, it's expected that there is also going to be a wide range of views on how this site should function and cater to the needs of this diverse community.

All in all, I would say they've (D&L) done a pretty good job of meeting the needs of the majority, otherwise this site would have failed a long time ago. I would wager that if this was still a personal site catering to a handful of photography friends, many of the suggestions would not only be considered, but implemented, as the user group would be neatly defined.

My additional 2 cents. ;^)