Industrial Nude - This is art, people!

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

12/07/2005 01:56:30 PM · #101

Another note ... my girlfriend also LOVED this shot

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

12/07/2005 02:02:58 PM · #102

Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:

Beetle: If I were to take your theory and apply it to some of my own images, would I be safe in assuming that this image is trying to "sell" something?

This is an example of something that is not "normal" by your classification of what a nude should be (ie: people doing normal things). Am I trying to sell a white sheer fabric? Am I trying to garner attention by displaying a nude form? Personally I think not (but I could be wrong). If you feel this is an acceptable nude, then what differentiates this from fotomann's image?

Lee, I think this is missing Beetle's point: your tryptich is a lovely series of images, visually linked, OF your wife as you want to see her. There's nothing objectionable about it to anyone who does not object to ALL depictions of nudity, which Beetle does not.

Beetle's point (and I'm not agreeing with it, just explaining it) is that the incongruous insertion of the nude form into such an industrial environment is "gratuitous", and that it's reasonable for a given voter to react negatively because s/he believes the photographer is trying to buy votes by inserting inappropriate sexuality into the image.

As I pointed out earlier, I personally don't think this was the case, but I'm 100% supportive of those who downscored the image because they felt manipulated. That's their right; it's not an unreasonable call in this circumstance. We are inundated with sex-as-a-selling-tool every day, everywhere we go, and many people are reacting against it.

Robt.

12/07/2005 02:04:52 PM · #103

Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:

That series was taken for the sake of it. Great.
You are NOT using sex to do well in a challenge called "Fabrics".

None of us will ever get every person under the sun to agree with our every opinion. And I'm sure that is not such a bad thing.

To Kirbic:
Thanks a lot for that snarky come-back. Just because I am representing the other side in this debate doesn't mean my opinion must be wrong.

So far, the whole debate had been polite and civilized. Thanks a lot for ruining this. At this point, I believe it is best for me find something else to do.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

12/07/2005 02:14:18 PM · #104

For the most part, this debate has been good. But, yeah, I agree with Beetle (on this), let's do stay away from name calling or personal stabs.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

12/07/2005 02:18:24 PM · #105

Originally posted by Beetle:

You are NOT using sex to do well in a challenge called "Fabrics".

To be fair, I'd expect that a challenge called "fabrics" would have a number of nude shots in it, artfully draped, and I think this would be fine. What more likely topic to invite nude submissions (aside from "nude", of course) than "fabrics"?

I's have expected this blue ribbon in "nude III" to score well in "fabrics", for example:

Robt.

LeeD

Canon EOS-30D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/07/2005 02:20:09 PM · #106

Originally posted by bear_music:

Beetle's point (and I'm not agreeing with it, just explaining it) is that the incongruous insertion of the nude form into such an industrial environment is "gratuitous", and that it's reasonable for a given voter to react negatively because s/he believes the photographer is trying to buy votes by inserting inappropriate sexuality into the image.

As I pointed out earlier, I personally don't think this was the case, but I'm 100% supportive of those who downscored the image because they felt manipulated. That's their right; it's not an unreasonable call in this circumstance. We are inundated with sex-as-a-selling-tool every day, everywhere we go, and many people are reacting against it.

Robt.

I agree with you Robert, and actually I agree with Beetle's right to downscore an image she feels "gratuitous". My point was merely to try to help explain what I felt was the original intent of the photo in question. I think that it has been well established that many people consider this image a fitting tribute to the "pin-up" images of days gone by. I do not feel this image depicted nudity to try to gain interest with the voters. I contributed my example to the debate because this is what I originally intended for the triptych challenge (a non-nude challenge). My question to Beetle was would she downvote my image because it used nudity to make a statement (in the same way fotomann did). I must resign to the fact that not everyone shares this vision. But then again, isn't that what makes this site so great!

Elaine

Canon EOS R5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS II USM Lens

12/07/2005 02:21:42 PM · #107

Moved this to the Morality and the Decline of Competent Voting thread.

Message edited by author 2005-12-07 14:32:39.

DjFenzl

12/07/2005 02:32:27 PM · #108

I don't think I'm having much impact on this thread but on a side thought, if people think this is porn, it is known as the "porn industry" and therefor it could be argued that porn fits an industrial challenge. things that make you go hmmm...

edit - definitions
one definition of industrial is "having to do with industry"
one definition of industry is "work devoted to the study of a particular subject or author"

from Merriam Websters dictionary.

Message edited by author 2005-12-07 14:36:04.

12/07/2005 02:37:01 PM · #109

LMAO ... maybe not the strong point of the debate, but I loved it nonetheless.

Originally posted by megatherian:

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

12/07/2005 02:52:10 PM · #110

12/07/2005 02:54:04 PM · #111

OMG Art - that was a great chuckle :-) any meaning in all the workers being "woodies"?

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

12/07/2005 02:57:00 PM · #112

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

OMG Art - that was a great chuckle :-) any meaning in all the workers being "woodies"?

Maybe a "double entendre"?

...or maybe when I tried to get some real workers to pose for this shot they kicked my ass when I told them they had to take their pants off. LOL

12/07/2005 03:31:44 PM · #113

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

...or maybe when I tried to get some real workers to pose for this shot they kicked my ass when I told them they had to take their pants off. LOL

Well, you know industrial workers are funny like that :-)

12/07/2005 04:40:35 PM · #114

Originally posted by seebrown:

Another note ... my girlfriend also LOVED this shot

Don't let her do it... lol... it does actually hurt some. Thanks for the compliment :-)

Speaking of which, WOW... all those comments are great... probably my most successful, unsuccessful shot ever :-)

12/07/2005 04:47:44 PM · #115

Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:

I contributed my example to the debate because this is what I originally intended for the triptych challenge (a non-nude challenge). My question to Beetle was would she downvote my image because it used nudity to make a statement (in the same way fotomann did).

NO, I would NOT downvote your tritpych.

The reason is that the idea of triptych is simply to come up with something containing three panels/photos. There is no actual THEME to it.
So if YOUR theme is "Nudes" in three panels, then that is perfectly fine by me.

If the challenge is knife, fork and spoon, I want to see interesting photos about cutlery, NOT nudes.

12/07/2005 04:57:17 PM · #116

Originally posted by Beetle:

My theme was Industrial Nude a subframe inside the Industrial Feel. So your argument for his triptych would fit my photo.

But, BTW... I'm not gonna force a nude in a theme like Knife, Fork, Spoon. Hell, I don't even know if I could come up with an idea for that. It's got to flow ... you can't just say ... ahhh .. 4 am - 5am ... how can I make that nude?

12/07/2005 05:06:04 PM · #117

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

I sure wish I could explain things better.... :-(
Leroy, let me try again:
the triptych had no theme as such, as long as it was 3 panels, those three panels could be of anything they liked - hence nudes would fit just fine.
YOUR photo is in a challenge called Industrial - that is very much a specific theme, which happens to have nothing to do with nudity.

On the other hand, in the 4-5am challenge, I would find it easy to explain away a nude - most people sleep at that time, many of them in the nude. Bingo - a shot of a sleeping nude; makes perfect sense to be there.

A nude operating dangerous machinery that other people wear not only normal clothes - but PROTECTIVE clothes - for, has no business being there.

Yes, it is a nice photo, would have done brilliantly in a pin-up challenge, but I just do NOT agree with the nudity in THAT context.

Tamron AF 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II for Canon

12/07/2005 05:08:37 PM · #118

Oh and I meant to say thank you to Robert (bear music).

You didn't agree with me, but you actually listened to what I had to say, and acknowledged that even my opinion counts.

Thank you.

UNTITLED

Canon EOS-20D

12/07/2005 05:11:10 PM · #119

Originally posted by Beetle:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

My theme was Industrial Nude a subframe inside the Industrial Feel. So your argument for his triptych would fit my photo.

But, BTW... I'm not gonna force a nude in a theme like Knife, Fork, Spoon. Hell, I don't even know if I could come up with an idea for that. It's got to flow ... you can't just say ... ahhh .. 4 am - 5am ... how can I make that nude?

I sure wish I could explain things better.... :-(
Leroy, let me try again:
the triptych had no theme as such, as long as it was 3 panels, those three panels could be of anything they liked - hence nudes would fit just fine.
YOUR photo is in a challenge called Industrial - that is very much a specific theme, which happens to have nothing to do with nudity.

On the other hand, in the 4-5am challenge, I would find it easy to explain away a nude - most people sleep at that time, many of them in the nude. Bingo - a shot of a sleeping nude; makes perfect sense to be there.

A nude operating dangerous machinery that other people wear not only normal clothes - but PROTECTIVE clothes - for, has no business being there.

Yes, it is a nice photo, would have done brilliantly in a pin-up challenge, but I just do NOT agree with the nudity in THAT context.

You seem to be placing everything into a neat little mold, and leaving no room for originality, creativity, or thought provoking ideas.

CEJ

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

12/07/2005 05:13:23 PM · #120

Art, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

I read over your comments and I didn't see any that were offensive in any way. Perhaps you may not have liked them because they were not in favor of your image. But I saw none that were offensive. I also noticed that all of the comments that didn't say "WOW" or "Great image" or "I love this" were not checked as helpful even though some pointed out areas they were displeased with or thought were detracting from the image. So a comment is only helpful if it gives praise?

Message edited by author 2005-12-07 17:43:56.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/07/2005 05:13:41 PM · #121

Originally posted by pekesty:

You seem to be placing everything into a neat little mold, and leaving no room for originality, creativity, or thought provoking ideas.

Hmmm...... so without nudity you have no scope for creativity or thought left?
I hardly think removing ONE aspect (and only in certain circumstances) constitutes much limitation.

nlghttrain

Canon EOS-50D

12/07/2005 05:14:29 PM · #122

I was one of those people who did make a coment about this shot, and its not that i feel it was pronographic in nature but just i didnt feel that she needed to be nude to atain the same feeling. but having said that just to let you know i still gave you an 8, it's a beautiful shot theres not question about that.