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07/02/2003 09:27:20 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Chez:
in a 100 years from now who will care? |
Nobody will give a damn thats 4 sure
Message edited by author 2003-07-02 09:27:59.
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07/02/2003 09:30:30 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Chez:
At the end of the day it is an individual thing, if people think photos are off topic or complete rubbish, who really gives a hoot! It is something that people do that gives them pleasure, we are not all David Baileys and in a 100 years from now who will care? |
We have to vote on at least 20% of the shots to reward great photos and/or punish the crappy ones ... takes time, effort and bandwidth.
Also I saw quite a few threads complaining about how many 1s s/he received for such and such submission ... that coming from people who submitted the photos subject of this discussion.
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07/02/2003 09:33:36 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please send me an email with a list of images (with links if you can) which you feel have no relationship to the challenge topic, and I'll try and offer at least one possible interpretation. If one of the questionable images is mine, at least I'll get one right! |
I think that if you have to e-mail somebody to get an interpretation as to how the photo meets the challenge, then the photo didn't do a good job of expressing the challenge.
This would be like going to a comedy club, having nobody laugh at the jokes, and then ask your friends if the jokes were funny so you could judge the performance. If the comedian didn't make the audience laugh, he ain't a very good comedian...!
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07/02/2003 09:57:37 AM · #29 |
alansfreed.. I think you hit the nail on the head!
To take the analogy further.. not everyone laughs at the same jokes..
vive le difference.. or something |
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07/02/2003 10:54:07 AM · #30 |
| Well a right bunch of philosophers we all turned out to be, vote, don't vote, comment, don't comment, rant and rave, but hey guys enjoy it. |
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07/02/2003 11:03:05 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by alansfreed:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please send me an email with a list of images (with links if you can) which you feel have no relationship to the challenge topic, and I'll try and offer at least one possible interpretation. If one of the questionable images is mine, at least I'll get one right! |
I think that if you have to e-mail somebody to get an interpretation as to how the photo meets the challenge, then the photo didn't do a good job of expressing the challenge.
This would be like going to a comedy club, having nobody laugh at the jokes, and then ask your friends if the jokes were funny so you could judge the performance. If the comedian didn't make the audience laugh, he ain't a very good comedian...! |
A couple of the photos to which I was referred had (to me) a fairly obvious connection to the challenge, and a couple less so.
Your analogy seems to overlook the possibility of a mismatch between the material and the audience--I'm picturing how Lenny Bruce would have gone over at a USO show. Doesn't mean and of them is "bad," but might be the wrong joke for that particular audience.
I think we should seek to broaden our horizons, not categorize and label everything to death. |
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07/02/2003 11:27:18 AM · #32 |
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07/02/2003 11:41:52 AM · #33 |
I've only participated in a few challenges, but the thing I'm beginning to see is that it doesn't seem like voters take into account these two things when scoring and leaving comments:
1) even though this is a great photo, should I really rate it higher than this other shot which fits the challenge theme perfectly, but may not be as "interesting" to me?
Here is an example (not meant to belittle paganini's shot in any way; it IS an excellent shot. There are several other photos I could have used as examples. I just happened to vote it low because it didn't say "Country Life" to me, yet it ranked 23rd):
Yet my submission, which I really thought "depicted life in the country", ranked much lower:
It may sound like I'm bitter, but I'm not -- since I'm new around here, I'm just trying to understand the voting thought process around here. (Hopefully some seasoned DPC'ers can shed some light.) How important is it to follow the weekly theme? Is a "well I can sorta see how that might fit" entry good enough, especially if it is a really good shot?
2) the skill involved in getting the shot.
If there is a sign that says "Kodak Photo Spot" on the side of the road and somebody pulls over, whip out their point-and-shoot and pushes the shutter, is there really any "challenge" in getting a great shot? With today's digital cameras (and even with the single-use film cameras thanks to all the processing done at the lab), how different are the shots taken from that "Kodak Photo Spot" going to be? Was their really any photographic skill? Sure the shots will be different depending on the weather and time of day, but I'm pretty sure a chimp could be trained to push the shutter button and get as good a picture as a photographer taking a photo from the same spot 5 minutes later.
So when I'm voting, I really tend to stress these two things: how well it meets the challenge compared to the other photos and how much effort did the photographer go through to find the subject and compose the shot?
Just my 2¢...
Message edited by author 2003-07-02 11:52:56. |
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07/02/2003 12:36:04 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Your analogy seems to overlook the possibility of a mismatch between the material and the audience |
That's an important consideration for anyone here who submits shots with hopes of scoring highly. If you submit something that is "on the fringe" of the challenge, or you're taking a chance with something that is a bit outside the realm of what most people would expect to see, your goals of personal creativity may be met. But you may also be compromising your score at the same time.
You're exactly right -- people should take the "audience" of voters into account if they want to score highly. |
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07/02/2003 02:30:27 PM · #35 |
| When looking at an image, I'd like to be able to guess what type of contest it's for just by the entry itself. That gets a higher score, then it goes by quality. |
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07/02/2003 04:11:50 PM · #36 |
Having just spent the best part of my evening going through the 'speed' challenge and making more comments than on any other challenge i am at a loss why someone would - for example only - submit a picutre of a shirt button for a speed challenge - the remise was to submit a photograph that, and i quote
Convey the illusion or feeling of speed
unquote
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07/02/2003 05:10:04 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by alansfreed:
If you submit something that is "on the fringe" of the challenge, or you're taking a chance with something that is a bit outside the realm of what most people would expect to see, your goals of personal creativity may be met. But you may also be compromising your score at the same time .... |
Precisely. And for myself, I do that frequently and knowingly. And I rarely disagree with the results--maybe twice in 90-something photos do I feel something scored "unfairly" low, and those were balanced by a couple of surprisingly high scores. But I view the exercise in creativity--even if "unsuccessful" or incomplete--and the feedback and ideas I get from that, are far more important to me than a little cluster of blue, red, or yellow pixels. |
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07/02/2003 05:15:17 PM · #38 |
Shrug. I think my shot also got dogged because people didn't think it was a country shot :) so it goes both ways. I used the vertical composition and think of it as a view from a window to a pond (i.e. serenity, nature and this reminded me of living in Lawrence Kansas, not exactly country life, but pretty close).
My speed challenge is like the opposite, probably one of my worst scores ever. I chose a shot that was quite abstract and people don't like it, which I already expected it, but was a shot that i really like myself.
Originally posted by EddyG:
I've only participated in a few challenges, but the thing I'm beginning to see is that it doesn't seem like voters take into account these two things when scoring and leaving comments:
1) even though this is a great photo, should I really rate it higher than this other shot which fits the challenge theme perfectly, but may not be as "interesting" to me?
Here is an example (not meant to belittle paganini's shot in any way; it IS an excellent shot. There are several other photos I could have used as examples. I just happened to vote it low because it didn't say "Country Life" to me, yet it ranked 23rd):
Yet my submission, which I really thought "depicted life in the country", ranked much lower:
It may sound like I'm bitter, but I'm not -- since I'm new around here, I'm just trying to understand the voting thought process around here. (Hopefully some seasoned DPC'ers can shed some light.) How important is it to follow the weekly theme? Is a "well I can sorta see how that might fit" entry good enough, especially if it is a really good shot?
2) the skill involved in getting the shot.
If there is a sign that says "Kodak Photo Spot" on the side of the road and somebody pulls over, whip out their point-and-shoot and pushes the shutter, is there really any "challenge" in getting a great shot? With today's digital cameras (and even with the single-use film cameras thanks to all the processing done at the lab), how different are the shots taken from that "Kodak Photo Spot" going to be? Was their really any photographic skill? Sure the shots will be different depending on the weather and time of day, but I'm pretty sure a chimp could be trained to push the shutter button and get as good a picture as a photographer taking a photo from the same spot 5 minutes later.
So when I'm voting, I really tend to stress these two things: how well it meets the challenge compared to the other photos and how much effort did the photographer go through to find the subject and compose the shot?
Just my 2¢... |
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07/02/2003 05:18:34 PM · #39 |
I finished voting during my lunchbrake. And I saw only a few photos that gave me a sense of speed.
There are some good panning shots, but some of them are so good that the action seems frozen.
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07/02/2003 06:17:34 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
... how different are the shots taken from that "Kodak Photo Spot" going to be? Was their really any photographic skill? Sure the shots will be different depending on the weather and time of day, but I'm pretty sure a chimp could be trained to push the shutter button and get as good a picture as a photographer taking a photo from the same spot 5 minutes later... |
That's true for many cases, where you just want to get a snapshot for the family photo album.
In one of my recent challenges though I took around 300 or so shots from around the same spot. Although they all have the same essential elements in them - the overall look of the final 4 I wanted to decide upon, looked entirely different from one another.
It's unlikely that any of the casual photographers that hung around for a minute or so would have got the variety of different looks that I managed to capture. So I think some skill is needed, if you want to make your photo stand out from the crowd :) |
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07/02/2003 06:57:53 PM · #41 |
ozdick wrote
"It's unlikely that any of the casual photographers that hung around for a minute or so would have got the variety of different looks that I managed to capture. So I think some skill is needed, if you want to make your photo stand out from the crowd :)2
Just because you took 300 shots, which to my mind seems a little extreme, doesn't mean that you got the best shots, jeez what arrogance you hold on your ability to be better than others, is your ego that BIG?
Message edited by author 2003-07-02 18:58:38. |
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07/02/2003 09:26:08 PM · #42 |
i dont think it has anything to do with arrogance, just law of probability. sticking around and waiting until the right thing happens instead of just taking what you get is just common sense.
please refrain from personal attacks in the future.
thanks.
Originally posted by Chez:
ozdick wrote
"It's unlikely that any of the casual photographers that hung around for a minute or so would have got the variety of different looks that I managed to capture. So I think some skill is needed, if you want to make your photo stand out from the crowd :)2
Just because you took 300 shots, which to my mind seems a little extreme, doesn't mean that you got the best shots, jeez what arrogance you hold on your ability to be better than others, is your ego that BIG? |
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07/02/2003 09:51:15 PM · #43 |
like I said, would you have voted a photo with a 9-10 just because it is technically superior, meets the challenge, but you just simply dislike? Example, a photo you find boring and dull, meaningless to you, doesn't tingle your senses, but downright amazing technically? I'd rate it a 4 at most, because no matter how "good" a photo is, what is shown in the photo is what's count. That's how I vote. It doesn't make sense to vote down a photo simply because "it's technically poor" while the subject captured is interesting.
These are all down to personal preferences. I'm just stating this because I believe there ARE also other voters like myself in DPC.
EDIT: I'm going to be frank here, I find flower shots boring most of the time. I usually rate these rather low, but there are exceptions of course. If you check my profile, I do have a favourite photo of a flower (Soft White, by Pitsaman), which I DO like a lot!
Message edited by author 2003-07-02 22:02:13.
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07/02/2003 10:18:53 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Chez:
...jeez what arrogance you hold on your ability to be better than others, is your ego that BIG?... |
Chez, I'm sorry if my post came across that way, as it certainly wasn't my intention.
I never said anything about being better than anyone else - but the odds of me coming up with a better photo by sitting down and playing with the camera settings, using different compositions and lighting conditions, are certainly greater than if I turned up, got out of my car, took one shot, got back in the car and drove away.
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07/02/2003 11:54:40 PM · #45 |
most of the voting is about personal choice and personal preferences. if they dont' like the subject, you probably won't do well.
Originally posted by shadow:
like I said, would you have voted a photo with a 9-10 just because it is technically superior, meets the challenge, but you just simply dislike? Example, a photo you find boring and dull, meaningless to you, doesn't tingle your senses, but downright amazing technically? I'd rate it a 4 at most, because no matter how "good" a photo is, what is shown in the photo is what's count. That's how I vote. It doesn't make sense to vote down a photo simply because "it's technically poor" while the subject captured is interesting.
These are all down to personal preferences. I'm just stating this because I believe there ARE also other voters like myself in DPC.
EDIT: I'm going to be frank here, I find flower shots boring most of the time. I usually rate these rather low, but there are exceptions of course. If you check my profile, I do have a favourite photo of a flower (Soft White, by Pitsaman), which I DO like a lot! |
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07/03/2003 01:20:57 AM · #46 |
Ok so maybe I was a little strong in my last post, apologies if any offense was caused.
Frustration with the constant battle of the wills that seem to appear on this site, I think I should just be smart and let you guys get on with it from now on. |
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