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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Little *Star* Entries - Young DPC Users
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 11/27/2005 08:30:11 PM · #1
This is potentially a delicate issue, however I think that young, genuinely keen to learn photographers should be encouraged to participate more at DPChallenge (under supervision of course) - via the Challenges, commenting, voting and, possibly some Forums. As far as "how young?", to my knowledge, anyone under 13 must have a parental consent form 'signed' by their parent(s)/guardian(s).

I have suggested that at some point in the future it would be good to be able to identify who the 'young ones' are, and possibly even hold special Challenges for them. That is 'on the cards', when (and if) there become a significant number of genuinely keen to learn 'young ones' to warrant such changes. From what I've seen so far, some of the 'children' are as good (if not better) as some of the 'adults', so maybe 'we' can learn a thing or two (and even be inspired) by them. They obviously join for a reason, I'd just like to see them encouraged more to participate, and if apt, not be so intimidated.

In the interim, I have an idea that I realize may not be welcomed by some users or simply may not be a good idea for reasons I have not considered. I am also aware that not all view, or even consider, DPC as a 'family friendly' site.

My 'interim' suggestion is this; that 'young users' place a little star in brackets at the end of their title on their submissions to Challenges, something like this (not bold though, it's only to emphasize): ' ( * ) '.

Of high importance, this should not encourage 'favoritism', nor change your vote - those aspects should be 'level playing fields'. However, the main reason is that if you are inclined to comment, you may 'word' your comment differently than you would for an adult. Also, no 'sugar coating' (that won't help them learn), be honest and perhaps use an appropriate vocabulary. Of course ideally, the reverse would be good too (if 'young ones' are making comments you can identify the fact that they are young), but perhaps that could come later, if this 'trial' suggestion is welcomed and proves 'successful'.

I was going to title and relate this thread to the Free Study IX Challenge (partly also to encourage the young users to enter), but not all are Members and at any rate, it could apply to all Challenges. If the idea is accepted by most (dare I suggest another poll?), then maybe it can become a 'standard'. Just a suggestion, and primarily to encourage young users to participate on the site (under their parents' supervision of course), despite the 'zoo like' aspect that rears its head every now and again.

This is also a subtle reminder to all users that there are 'several' children who use/view this site. edit:typo

Message edited by author 2005-11-27 20:32:30.
 11/27/2005 08:39:08 PM · #2
How about a challenge for the 13 and under? That way they might be encouraged by us oldies.

Message edited by author 2005-11-27 20:39:21.
 11/27/2005 08:39:42 PM · #3
One of the great things about DPC is that it gives the kids a chance to compete on exactly equal terms with the adults.

My son Isaac was signed-up when he was five. As far as I know, all the parents have said that it's fine for their kids' photos to be treated like anyone else's -- if anything, they shrug off the negative comments better than most adult members here.

I just don't think it's a problem, and would be hard to apply consistently, which would defeat the purpose.
 11/27/2005 08:44:42 PM · #4
My 9 yr old is getting a Canon A520 for Christmas and I hope she will want to give these challenges a go too! She's got the eye, now I want to see what she can do with it using a semi decent camera.
 11/27/2005 08:55:20 PM · #5
How will all the prima donna "adults" handle criticism by a 9 yr old. Heck they have a problem when an adult doesn't give them the glory they think they so rightly deserve. rofl!!
 11/27/2005 09:00:20 PM · #6
in my experience (teaching 40 odd kids photography) children take and use constructive crits far better and with more grace than adults.
They are also really good at picking out people that don't know what they are talking about, and those comments that come from morons and are very wise in how they deal with them.
Adults are the ones that are thin skinned. Maybe they need the (*).
 11/27/2005 09:02:03 PM · #7
Originally posted by heatherd:
How about a challenge for the 13 and under? That way they might be encouraged by us oldies.


It has been suggested. I think it is a great idea and would also be fun. It IS a possibility in the future, should the numbers warrant it (it would mean extra work behind the scenes). Hence my statement;

I have suggested that at some point in the future it would be good to be able to identify who the 'young ones' are, and possibly even hold special Challenges for them. That is 'on the cards', when (and if) there become a significant number of genuinely keen to learn 'young ones' to warrant such changes.

Just jumping in before everyone bombards the Admins with this request. There are not that many 'young users' registered at DPC (a dozen or so), I was just looking to 'encourage' them.
 11/28/2005 12:18:57 PM · #8
It's a nice idea but imho somewhat against the spirit of anonymous voting... even if you say it shouldn't affect your scores, those people who know what it means often will change their scores because of it... and those who don't know what it means would simply think there's something odd going on, and possibly change their scores because of that.

Besides, i may be being a little too idealistic, but if you have to reword your comments for a younger audience, then perhaps your way of commenting is not so appropriate in the first place... just a thought.
 11/28/2005 12:36:50 PM · #9
i much prefer the 13 and under category idea to a little star or something.

when competing in a grown-up category, the artist should be up to full grown artistic consideration. I think it would be an even greater achievement for a sub-13 to place high without all of us going easy because we knew they were young.

I'm sure skiprow's daughter will soon be able to compete with the rest of us. and others who are 14-15 have already won, so there seems not to be much separation.

I'd rather see a DPCKids! site or something rather than creating an influx of "little eyes" that might create a problem with some of the more sensitive subjects that get airtime in the challenges.

Message edited by author 2005-11-28 12:38:02.
 11/28/2005 01:06:48 PM · #10
Originally posted by wavelength:
... I think it would be an even greater achievement for a sub-13 to place high without all of us going easy because we knew they were young.

Isaac reached the 59th percentile with this entry into the Negative Space challenge when he was about 5-1/2 : )



I think we've had ribbon-winners as young as 13 or 14.
 11/28/2005 01:33:39 PM · #11
I am finding this quite an interesting thread, learning the different viewpoints has been educational.

I have noticed several images in the last few challenges when I thought the photog was one of the junior members. I found myself tailoring my comments to a younger audience to insure my message came across. Looking back I now realized I never did that with my own children, of course they all had their Mother's genes and were smarter than I was anyhow.

I also realize that my comments change when I might think something could been lost in translation. I have even gone as far as using Babel Fish to translate comments, which probably makes me appear the complete idiot.

Anyhow, I now understand that beside every little one is a good parent explaining things for me. The ESL'ers will still get fewer contractions.
 11/28/2005 01:34:14 PM · #12
Originally posted by wavelength:
i much prefer the 13 and under category idea to a little star or something.

when competing in a grown-up category, the artist should be up to full grown artistic consideration.

I'd rather see a DPCKids! site or something rather than creating an influx of "little eyes" that might create a problem with some of the more sensitive subjects that get airtime in the challenges.


I concur! I think that say someone like Isaac ( GeneralE's talented son ) would be more adept then a 40 year who has only started photography..In other words, age shouldn't be a factor here, the kids are clearly as talented and more so then some of us novices.
And, would we not consistently be ribboning only the kids, as they would be getting "consideration" when voting?
I , too think a separate category, or site would be better...
 11/28/2005 01:55:34 PM · #13
I really don't see any need for separating out the young photographers from the rest of us. I haven't heard any of them ask for that, or their parents asking for any special treatment of them. Seems to me that they are asking that they be treated the same and allowed to compete in the challenges as they are now.

And if we are going to give the young photogrpahers all this special treatment, how about doing something special for the older crowd? There certainly are more of us than there are young users. I don't really want that but it would be easier to justify than something for the kids.

macrothing, -- how are you going to identify which young users qualify as "keen to learn" and separate them from the ones where it's just the parents are keen on them having their own account? And what do you mean when you say "That is on the cards"? I'm not familiar with that expression.

I think participating in the dpc community can be a very good family activity just as it is now. There is no need to change it.
11/28/2005 07:05:51 PM · #14
Originally posted by coolhar:
I really don't see any need for separating out the young photographers from the rest of us. I haven't heard any of them ask for that, or their parents asking for any special treatment of them. Seems to me that they are asking that they be treated the same and allowed to compete in the challenges as they are now.

...........

macrothing, -- how are you going to identify which young users qualify as "keen to learn" and separate them from the ones where it's just the parents are keen on them having their own account? And what do you mean when you say "That is on the cards"? I'm not familiar with that expression.

I think participating in the dpc community can be a very good family activity just as it is now. There is no need to change it.


Sorry, just extracted a few points to reply to.

I also agree that some of the 'young ones' may actually wish to not be seen as 'young ones' or differentiated from the rest of 'us'. Perhaps because they just want to 'play on an even field', perhaps because they (and/or their parents) do not wish to draw unnecessary attention, which I understand. As for identifying who is keen or not, or if it is just the parents who are keen - that is difficult, I agree. Even so, they're still trying to learn (even if by the hand of their parents), like many others, myself included, so why not. In my opinion, that is better than the 'exhibitionists' or the 'not interested in photography or taking better pictures, just want to post something on the internet' users (there, now that's controversial, and yes - just my opinion).

It is working fine as it is, and I too like to think of DPC as a family environment (but in reality it has many 'PG areas'). It was just an interim idea I 'threw into the pot' (not to stir, just an idea), as I said, mainly to encourage them to participate more, especially if they are intimidated. Perhaps just this thread alone will hopefully show them that there are many users here who like the fact that they are in the competition and they'll start jumping in more, I hope so.

As for "it's on the cards", meaning that it has been officially 'noted' and is something that may perhaps be implemented in the future, again, should the numbers warrant it. That also likely (I didn't officially ask) applies to a DPCKids, which I think is also a good idea - but even in that, the numbers would have to be quite significant to implement a whole new 'section', or off-shoot site.

I made the statement (and I hope I did not do so out of line) that it was 'on the cards', based on a reply I received from the Admins after making a few suggestions on this issue. I won't speak on their behalf nor quote them, but I was left with the impression that they liked the idea and have no objections to child participation here (subject to the 'signed' consent form). The suggestions I made were similar to the following;

14. Child/Youth Identifiers I would like to see some type of identification system put in place that can easily identify a child photographer/user. Obviously children/youth who participate at this site for the purpose of improving their photography skills while also entering a Challenge (playing a game), should be welcomed and encouraged to participate via entering Challenges, voting and commenting. Forum posting I am not sure on and perhaps a debate (& poll) could be put in motion to garner community ideas. However, I am sure there are legal aspects of this that the Admins have already researched, so it may be something that they make a sole decision on. But knowing that a user is a child/youth that you may be receiving a comment from, or indeed making one to, should be easily identified and people (the adults) can adjust their language or 'style' accordingly. Two ideas are; a special 'icon' in place of the boy/girl/neutral generic ones, or, perhaps a different colored font on their usernames. Lastly on this, I think (and this is not just my opinion) that if this site is a 'family oriented' site, that users should watch their language and indeed, any 'colorful' language should be kept to the Rant forum, and children/youth should not be allowed access to that forum. --Note:--I have 'officially' suggested this and as it stands, the current number of young users does not justify the extra work involved in implementing these new features, but it is 'on the cards' should the demand be there in the future. Just for reference.

The above is taken from my 'no timeframe' DPChallenge Site 'Suggestions' (Wish List). It is a long read and not meant to be 'forceful', or demanding, just a reference where I have 'jotted down some ideas'. I shall be quiet now for a while on ideas as I've made enough to last a year or more.

In summary, no it doesn't really matter if the children (with the current numbers of them) are able to be identified when voting/commenting (giving or receiving), but I'd like to see them participate more - and yes, it is assumed that their parents are looming over their shoulders whenever on this site. Other users being mindful that they are 'out there' (no, not in the 'alien' sense), might make it a little easier for them to 'wade in'. To any children out there reading this (or having it read to them) - come on, get in and play the game - 'Meet the Challenge', and have fun learning to take better photographs. edit:wording

Message edited by author 2005-12-02 15:59:23.
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