Critique Club: Require input from photographer

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

11/28/2005 09:30:24 AM · #26

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

I'd like to know what the community, and especially the Critique Club volunteers and customers, think of this idea before presenting it to Site Council.
Thanks,
Terry

I like the idea a lot but I have two questions. Do you just look at yourself in the mirror and suggest it??? and do you ever get a good arguement for not implimenting your ideas??????

edit to add: I'd like to suggest it goes by equal oppertunity. If I got one this week then I'd be at the bottom of the list for next week.

Message edited by author 2005-11-28 09:31:31.

11/28/2005 09:32:41 AM · #27

As a photographer who has never received a critique ( but I am still very hopeful I will one day!) I totally agree with the suggestion as to some guidline as to what to put in the comment box. I have noticed that most peeps seem to list all the post processing steps there, so that is what I have been doing. But if there is something more that would be helpful I would like to include it.
I am just unsure as to what comments the CC club would find helpful.

notonline

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

11/28/2005 09:35:26 AM · #28

Originally posted by hbunch7187:

However, it seems that unless I'm sitting there holding their hand, or bribing them with free memberships, that it just isn't going to happen.

Ouch, I joined the CC to help out NOT for any free stuff.

notonline

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

11/28/2005 09:44:42 AM · #29

Originally posted by Rae-Ann:

What if we were just looking at one of your photo's and wondering how you did it for tech. merrit??? or wondering how to achieve those resluts for ourselves??? what if we need/want to know what you were trying to achieve to help us tell you if you achieved it in our opinion???

11/28/2005 10:32:52 AM · #30

I surely wasn't trying to offend anyone!! I am sorry if I did...I was just honestly asking, what more then, ISo, F stop aperature, and post production steps would help to understand how to reach the intended results.
Sorry, I am still kinda new here and still learning the ropes..My stupid question was only meant to clarify. for myself, to make it easier for the CC, not insult anyone

11/28/2005 10:51:00 AM · #31

Originally posted by Rae-Ann:

The photographers intentions or the story behind the photo can lead the critique. If the photographer was trying the soft focus technique and it just came out blurry then that intention in combination with the pp steps taken will help the person making the critique give advice that will help with the intended result as apposed to just indicating that the image is blurry and they might try using a tripod next time.

11/28/2005 10:58:14 AM · #32

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Thank You! Now I see, you would like more of the story behind the image As well as the tech stuff. I will revamp how I leave comments to indicate this.
Your explanation makes this crystal clear, cpanaioti, thanks again!

MrsFuzzButt

Fujifilm FinePix 3800

11/28/2005 11:22:09 AM · #33

The part of CC that depresses me is never knowing if anyone even READ the danged critique, or whether it was of any use. It gets wearisome. SO much work for so little return.

I just wanted to comment on this point, Bear. :-) I received a CC on one of my images long after the challenge had ended and it took a while for me to even realize it was there. Perhaps a PM system to let people know the CC has been given would help this a bit. i don't know about anyone else, but I don't check every single photo of mine to see if there have been any more comments so I sometimes miss them for a bit.

I also wanted to add that my first thought when reading the suggestion posed here was "what about those who are new here and to digital photography in general?" I know, starting out, I would have had trouble giving you the information you want here. If you are going to require this, you may want to put up a tutorial that explains how to provide the info... such as keeping track of your post-processing steps, etc. The new comers are the ones who probably need the critiques the most and they will need help to give you the info you want.

Otherwise, I think it is a great idea.

Jen

* edited to say I am currently neither a volunteer or a customer (haven't requested a cc in ages).

Message edited by author 2005-11-28 11:23:51.

11/28/2005 11:30:23 AM · #34

I don't think the detailed pp steps are required but in general what was done to an image. This benefits the photographer as well as it gives them a record of what they did to achieve a certain effect and could possibly be repeated on another image to get the same or similar effect.

I am as bad as the next person for remembering what I did to a photo (and entering the details) but I usually follow the same sequence in processing for each photo (just different tweaking). I need to follow my own advice.

A tutorial for keeping this information I don't think is required. It would be like telling someone how to keep a journal. Information on how to automate this as much as possible would be helpful though. Like, Photoshop's history file that keeps track of everything.

alexgarcia

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

11/28/2005 11:35:57 AM · #35

Originally posted by bear_music:

The part of CC that depresses me is never knowing if anyone even READ the danged critique, or whether it was of any use. It gets wearisome. SO much work for so little return.
Robt.

I'm quite new in DPC (4 challenges), and never have received a critique. But I can't understand that somebody who asks for a critique could ignore it. If I check the critique box, I'm saying I want to learn better ways of making photos. And when I'll receive a critique I will send a PM to the critic thanking it, even in the case I don't agree with it.
I think is a case of education.
So bear_music, if I receive a critique by you be sure you will receive feedback...

11/28/2005 11:41:52 AM · #36

Originally posted by MrsFuzzButt:

I received a CC on one of my images long after the challenge had ended and it took a while for me to even realize it was there. Perhaps a PM system to let people know the CC has been given would help this a bit. i don't know about anyone else, but I don't check every single photo of mine to see if there have been any more comments so I sometimes miss them for a bit.

Most of us PM the photographer when we make a CC critique. Beyond that, if you go to your profile (My Home/My Profile from main menu) you will see upper left a "comments received" category. You can click on that to see a list of all the comments you have received with most recent on top. If you monitor this regularly you'll never miss a comment.

Actually, this would be something I'd liek to change; to have as part of the drop-down list under "my home" a category for "Check For Recent Comments", so the feature would not be so obscure.

Robt.

Message edited by author 2005-11-28 11:42:35.

11/28/2005 11:49:40 AM · #37

Originally posted by alexgarcia:

I'm quite new in DPC (4 challenges), and never have received a critique. But I can't understand that somebody who asks for a critique could ignore it.

I think patience is a virtue as far as critiques go, alexgarcia. I am in my 8th challenge, and no critique yet.
What I have learned tho, is that these folks are mad busy and overloaded, so If and When I ever am lucky enough to get a critique, I'll be thankful.
I am trying to learn, as well, and using this as one of the avenues towards that. Alot of peeps here give comments almost as thorough as CC, and I always mail a thanks for even those helpful ( even if they are critical) I will say I have learned lots, even without a CC critique, So just hang in there, I am sure no one is "ignoring" your requests!!

alexgarcia

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

11/28/2005 11:54:54 AM · #38

Originally posted by Rae-Ann:

So just hang in there, I am sure no one is "ignoring" your requests!!

No, I'm not saying I'm on a hurry, or that I want now my critique. No. I understand they will be busy. I was trying to say I don't understand people who didn't thank an in depth critique of somebody who dedicated some time making a comentary so you can be a better photographer.

MrsFuzzButt

Fujifilm FinePix 3800

11/28/2005 11:55:54 AM · #39

I know how to find my received comments. I come here to vote and comment on other images and sometimes enter challenges... I don't view my profile often. Perhaps i should check it daily, but I have such limited time to be online lately that I prefer to spend it voting and commenting. Seeing as I no longer request CCs and rarely enter a challenge anymore this shouldn't be an issue for me.

Now in the case of my CC ages ago, I had been entering challenges regularly and this cc happened to get lost in the shuffle at the end of another challenge. I usually read all comments during a challenge and mark the helpful at that time so I didn't notice the extra one thrown in when the challenge was over. I would imagine others have the same problem. A way to only check for recent comments would be wonderful and far easier. If you can have new threads on your main page, why not new comments??

psychephylax

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/28/2005 12:01:48 PM · #40

I agree with a lot of suggestions here

It's too easy to check the box and hope you get a critique. There should be some prioritization going on so that people who need the most help are getting it. So if I check the box and my score is a 6.8 then I should go alllll the way to the bottom of the queue. However if a score is a 4-5.5 then it should be placed higher in the queue for a critique. Perhaps analyzing the photographer's profile over time would also help. If the person is consistently scoring a 4.5 then they may need more help than someone who scored a 4.5 when they first started and a now they are scoring an average of a 5.9

Addition of comments by the photographer is very important in my opinion. If someone takes a photo and they don't put down comments or technical information then I'm not sure they're interested in getting feedback on their image. Technical information is great but what's real helpful is when the photographer tries to explain in words what their aim was and how they went about achieving it. Back when I actively voted I used to go back and review the challenges and read some of the comments and what I thought was a bad image turned out to be much better than I thought after looking at the photographer's comments. Simply because I didn't "get" their photo when I voted.

Also, if the photo was critiqued by a CC member, then perhaps an automated email/private message could be generated by the system and sent to the photographer. This way the CC members don't have to manually do one. That way people don't "forget" about their critiques.

HBunch

HP PhotoSmart 315

11/28/2005 12:18:52 PM · #41

Originally posted by notonline:

Originally posted by hbunch7187:
However, it seems that unless I'm sitting there holding their hand, or bribing them with free memberships, that it just isn't going to happen.

Ouch, I joined the CC to help out NOT for any free stuff.

I wasn't referring to anyone specific, I was referring to the fact that when I was offering the free membership, there were over 1000 crits given and since that ended (almost a month ago), there have been only 80 given. 80 in a month. A whopping 3 this week! (and one of them is mine)

11/28/2005 12:29:22 PM · #42

I like the idea of an auto PM being sent when a CC comment is posted. I usually forget who the photographer is and sometimes even what challenge the photo was in immediately after I've posted.

11/28/2005 12:34:19 PM · #43

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

I like the idea of an auto PM being sent when a CC comment is posted. I usually forget who the photographer is and sometimes even what challenge the photo was in immediately after I've posted.

If you click on the photographer's name before you even start the critique, his/her profile will opne in a new window. You can do the critique and post it and that profile window will remain open. It's a matter of only a couple secs to PM from that window. Hope this helps :-)

R.

11/28/2005 12:36:50 PM · #44

Originally posted by bear_music:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
I like the idea of an auto PM being sent when a CC comment is posted. I usually forget who the photographer is and sometimes even what challenge the photo was in immediately after I've posted.

If you click on the photographer's name before you even start the critique, his/her profile will opne in a new window. You can do the critique and post it and that profile window will remain open. It's a matter of only a couple secs to PM from that window. Hope this helps :-)

R.

Thanks Robert. I've usually already started a lengthy comment when I think of the PM so clicking on the profile at that point loses whatever has been typed. I'll try and remember before I start next time.

11/28/2005 12:39:06 PM · #45

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by bear_music:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
I like the idea of an auto PM being sent when a CC comment is posted. I usually forget who the photographer is and sometimes even what challenge the photo was in immediately after I've posted.

If you click on the photographer's name before you even start the critique, his/her profile will opne in a new window. You can do the critique and post it and that profile window will remain open. It's a matter of only a couple secs to PM from that window. Hope this helps :-)

R.

Thanks Robert. I've usually already started a lengthy comment when I think of the PM so clicking on the profile at that point loses whatever has been typed. I'll try and remember before I start next time.

When that happens to me, I just click cntrl-A to select all and cntrl-c to copy, then click for the profile page, then just go back to critting and cntrl-v to paste the previously completed work.

R.

Message edited by author 2005-11-28 12:39:54.

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

11/28/2005 12:43:13 PM · #46

Originally posted by bear_music:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by bear_music:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
I like the idea of an auto PM being sent when a CC comment is posted. I usually forget who the photographer is and sometimes even what challenge the photo was in immediately after I've posted.

If you click on the photographer's name before you even start the critique, his/her profile will opne in a new window. You can do the critique and post it and that profile window will remain open. It's a matter of only a couple secs to PM from that window. Hope this helps :-)

R.

Thanks Robert. I've usually already started a lengthy comment when I think of the PM so clicking on the profile at that point loses whatever has been typed. I'll try and remember before I start next time.

When that happens to me, I just click cntrl-A to select all and cntrl-c to copy, then click for the profile page, then just go back to critting and cntrl-v to paste the previously completed work.

R.

There's always a work around. I just like the auto thingy so I don't have to go through all those hoops, minimal as they are.

oOWonderBreadOo

Canon EOS-5D

11/28/2005 12:45:44 PM · #47

I have not read this thread, but as a suggestion to lower the # of critiques wanted maybe once you submit your photo that little box at the bottom of your submission should not be there. I know I checked it once just to make it go away...

Jammur

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

11/28/2005 12:46:55 PM · #48

As usual things move while I type, however:

I posted earlier in this thread and I guess I was shuffled off to the corner for asking an ignorant question rather than a rhetorical one. So one more time...

Since CC reviews aren't blind tasting's, where's the harm in sending a PM to the photog asking for more info? I fully realize that this slows the process, but it also personalizes it. I haven't seen where CC members are getting paid piece rate for reviews, rather it seems quality what's wanted.

I love this place. I come here and get to see the work of some really talented people, who amazingly enough want to hear what I think about their photos. I just finished a lengthy comment to one of the members on an individually submitted photo via PM. I chose that medium because when I started doing an open comment I realized I might be hijacking his photo and creating my own, so I PM'd him to ask his intention with the photo, He responded and I was able to start there an share where I thought he could go with it. No big deal, but I feel a lot better having understood what he wanted to do.

I digress,

Message edited by author 2005-11-28 12:55:16.

psychephylax

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/28/2005 12:48:41 PM · #49

Yeah but why should this have to be done if it can be automated?

I think it should be just a simple check, something along the lines of

if (image==critique_pool) && (commenter==critique_club) then
send_comments(image_owner,critique,...etc)
endif