Question for Pro Graphics Designers

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

11/26/2005 10:06:55 PM · #1

Do we have any professional graphic designers in DPC? If so, I'd like to get your opinion on something:

I have been subcontracting for a San Diego marketing firm for the last year. I do all the graphic design for their firm and all their clients. They called me yesterday and told me they'd like to have a meeting - they want to offer me a full time position as an executive at the company. While my job would still be graphic design, it would put me in the #3 position behind the president and vice president. This sounds VERY nice to me, but I have no idea what to ask for at our business meeting. I know they're going to give me an initial $$$ offering with bonus options, etc., but what should I ASK for? I don't know what executives at companies expect to recieve in compensation and would like to go in armed with enough information to make an intelligent proposal.

Before you ask, I don't have hard numbers on how much the company is worth, so really, if you have general recommendations on the meeting, that's probably more useful than saying "ask for $____".

I realize this is a very off-topic question for DPC, so if I don't get any/many responses, I understand.

Message edited by author 2005-11-26 22:10:47.

philup

Canon EOS-5D

11/26/2005 10:09:50 PM · #2

If you don't get an answer here try... //www.graphics.com

Thats about as much as I can help...

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

11/26/2005 10:12:00 PM · #3

LOL!!! I have a portfolio on graphics.com. Do they have such information? I've never noticed. I'll go back and take a closer look!

zapgrafx

Canon EOS-40D

11/26/2005 10:15:27 PM · #4

aboutimage try here: Graphics Artists Guild Salary Poll

Can't really help with your dilema other than to say be sure to factor in all the perks of being an independent contractor you will no doubt be expected to take on a considerable amount of additional responsibility - only you can determine what the value of being your own boss is.

Ombra_foto

Olympus E-300 EVOLT

Olympus 40-150mm f/3.5-4.5 Zuiko Digital

11/26/2005 10:17:08 PM · #5

First determine what they've already been paying you as a subcontractor, and then look at what additional duties your job will entail...
You may not have the hard numbers, but you do have an idea how profitable they are from working with them, and that will also give you an idea of how much your work is worth to them.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0 L IS

11/26/2005 10:21:31 PM · #6

Originally posted by zapgrafx:

Hey, that's a great site. I was able to get a decent base-pay calculation from it. Thank you!

samanwar

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

11/26/2005 10:25:51 PM · #7

It is not possible to answer your question yet, at least not a useful answer. The reasonable salary that you should be getting depends on the following factors:
1- What the company think you're worth to them.
2- Your experience, skills, education.
3- The size of the company.
4- Their financial ability.'

You said you will be the 3rd man in the company, how many employees are there? How many employees are going to be reporting to you directly?

To give you a range, I knew executive who makes 40k/year, I knew executives who makes 200K/year, and I knew executive who makes 2 Millions/year.

the 40K was at small (15 Employees) local company (very low salary for the title), the 200K is at a 100 employees multi-locations company (medium-high salary for executives at companies this size), the ones making 2 Millions were actually at H&R Block (Thousands of branches nation wide and billions of revenue).

If you give us some information about your company, I am sure more people will be able to contribute useful opinions.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

11/26/2005 10:35:32 PM · #8

Well, that's the problem. As a subcontractor, it's never been my business to know how much money they are pulling in. They are new, I can tell you that. I would surmise, from the conversations I've had with the president, that they are currently pulling in 100's of thousands per month, but they have negotiations going on with some very large corporations. I get the impression that millions per month may be happening within the next year. Now, like I say, this is supposition on my part, and only gleaned from the conversations I've had with the president. He's never offered information like "we're making $___ per month", and I've never asked. They do have a satellite company in another state (Nevada, I believe) but all total, I think they only have 15 employees. They are a marketing firm, so a lot gets sub-contracted out.

With regard to my skills - I have about 5 years of experience running my own graphics design firm as the president. I have no formal education in it -- I'm self taught.

With regard to the value I currently represent to their company - honestly, I can't see them doing the business they are doing without me.

Is it normal to ask for a modest salary with profit percentage options? I don't know if that's common or something I should ask for, but that sounds like an attractive option to me.

Message edited by author 2005-11-26 22:37:22.

hokie

Nikon D2X

11/26/2005 10:37:34 PM · #9

I got one word for you.....

San Diego!!!!

It is EXPENSIVE to live there. You definitely should be in the top 10% of the payscale for graphic designers, art directors or whatever your title and responsibilities will be.

zapgrafx

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

11/26/2005 10:41:29 PM · #10

Originally posted by aboutimage:

Originally posted by zapgrafx:
aboutimage try here: Graphics Artists Guild Salary Poll

Can't really help with your dilema other than to say be sure to factor in all the perks of being an independent contractor you will no doubt be expected to take on a considerable amount of additional responsibility - only you can determine what the value of being your own boss is.

Hey, that's a great site. I was able to get a decent base-pay calculation from it. Thank you!

Just in case you missed this article you may want to stop by here also: Designers Salary Chart to see a salary chart based on different levels as samanwar pointed out. Whether or not these salaries are supported by industry stats other than the poll I don't know. I can tell you that I too was recently in your situation one of my clients extended me an offer to become the Creative Director rather than outsourcing all of their design work to me.

Unfortunately, I can't offer any advice because money played absolutely NO factor in my deciding to decline the offer. I can tell you that they are still my client even tho I turned them down.

Best of luck to you - Michele

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0 L IS

11/26/2005 10:42:20 PM · #11

Originally posted by hokie:

It sure is expensive!! My military pay is currently bringing home about $60K after taxes and I'm barely making it. After I retire and go to this company, I would need to make at least $80K to bring home what I'm making with my military pay, and I feel the job I'd be doing is worth a lot more than that. But like I said, I'd be happy to work for "salary plus percentage" if that is a viable option. An $80K salary with a 5% profit bonus at a million-per-month company would equate to $680K per year.

samanwar

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

11/26/2005 10:54:06 PM · #12

I am sorry I am responding to your questions with another question, but to answer whether you should get a percentage of the profit, you have to answer these two questions:
1- How much business/profit would they lose if they had to replace you?
2- How easy is it for them to replace you.

If you think you as a person (and not anyone with similar skills) are directly contributing to their profit, then you should absolutely be getting a percentage, if you think that the company can make the same business if they had any one with similar skills as yours, then you can't ask for a percentage (unless everyone is getting some kind of a profit sharing already).

Hundreds of thousands of revenue per month is a lot of money for a company that small, I would be expecting few hundreds thousands a year if I were you, assuming these figures are true.