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11/24/2005 09:17:37 PM · #26 |
Although the site is growing and evolving, it is still primarily about the Challenge - DPChallenge. Anything that detracts FROM that aspect, or causes that focus to be SHIFTED, is going to lead to an emphasis on areas other than the Challenges.
Out-takes posted BEFORE a Challenge are generally just 'feeling the water'. But yes, noted, sometimes ideas are genuinely sought, again though - etiquette. However, out-takes posted DURING a Challenge will and do DETRACT - take away from - the Challenge(s) in PLAY, which of course includes all the ENTRIES. This ALSO includes forum activity. I have one comment in the current Challenge. The truth IS that if the focus were on the Challenges and not the Forums people would be directing their energy and keystrokes to the CHALLENGES. Are the Forums more 'fun'? It would be SO easy for this site to gravitate AWAY from the Challenge aspect that it becomes just another photography site. Who knows, maybe in the future another 'part' could be added (like DPPrints) FOR that, but right now, it is DPChallenge and the CHALLENGE aspect (including voting/commenting) IS losing.
glad2badad, as for not quoting you, I DID respond to the subject of 'timing', which encompassed yours and others comments, but here;
Originally posted by glad2badad:
.. you just prefer that people do their duty and vote/comment on the active challenges first.. ..... So once they've completed their obligations, outtakes are cool right? |
both taken out of context
Originally posted by glad2badad:
...It's a photography site. |
yes it is, where the main focus is the Challenge, which should get priority in my opinion
Originally posted by glad2badad:
It's human nature to want to show your work... |
speaking for myself, I am here for the Challenges and to learn, the feedback is important but wanting to "show my work" is not apt
Originally posted by glad2badad:
.. and it doesn't always have to be done via a challenge entry. |
correct, but do they get priority?
Originally posted by glad2badad:
As for visiting peoples portfolios and providing feedback/comments - that's another noble thought, but not very realistic. |
happens a lot - voluntarily; it raises the 'comments' issue again partly, but 'feedback' still filters through and, when requested in the forums; people do get the feedback they sought - so is realistic
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Most feedback is generated by getting your image out there... |
and do the people that get their images "out there" in the Challenges get priority?
....
And whilst I of course stand by my 'profile statement', you have TRIED to take it out of CONTEXT and then tried to twist it into something else. The fact IS that I am NOT opposed to out-takes at ALL (that SHOULD be obvious), but only AFTER the 'in-take' has been SHOWN;
out·take ( P ) Pronunciation Key (outtk)
n.
A section or scene, as of a movie, that is filmed but not used in the final version.
A complete version, as of a recording, that is dropped in favor of another version.
And lastly, NOT to 'call out' but TO demonstrate, an opinion was publicly asked for and offered for an 'out-take' that I just VOTED on. It is all about ETIQUETTE.
There are rules and etiquette in every game, that is half the fun. |
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11/24/2005 09:36:24 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by macrothing:
... The truth IS that if the focus were on the Challenges and not the Forums people would be directing their energy and keystrokes to the CHALLENGES. |
Macro - You're living in a fantasy world of non-reality if you really believe what you just said. The forums are just as much a part of this site as the challenges are. Face it, the forums ARE a lot of fun and informative as well.
Originally posted by macrothing:
... And whilst I of course stand by my 'profile statement', you have TRIED to take it out of CONTEXT and then tried to twist it into something else. The fact IS that I am NOT opposed to out-takes at ALL (that SHOULD be obvious), but only AFTER the 'in-take' has been SHOWN; ... |
I'm sorry, but what part of this is taking your profile bio section 'out of context'? Sounds like I agreed with you. Bold added for emphasis in my earlier quote.
Originally posted by glad2badad:
... In your profile, bio section, you've posted the following:
Comments and 'pretend votes' are welcomed and appreciated on Portfolio/Challenge Out-takes, but only if you have already done your 'quota' on the current Challenge(s). Voting and commenting on Current Challenges should take priority - "in my opinion".
Sounds like you're not opposed to "outtakes", you just prefer that people do their duty and vote/comment on the active challenges first. That's a noble thought.
So once they've completed their obligations, outtakes are cool right? |
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11/25/2005 03:05:27 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by undieyatch:
Outtakes are pictures that have not been entered in a challenge, but might have been. I usually find them the opposite of offensive. They can be interesting and usually provide additional insight to challenge ideas.
When they are posted correctly ie. with no indication of what the poster actually entered, it would seem they actually contribute to anonymity; they provide a interesting visual addendum to supplement ideas already in the challenge, which may or may not have already been presented.
Outtakes are less offensive & time consuming than pages and pages of inane mindless chatter in wildly popular current score threads which show little or no restraint, which contain glaring breaches of anonymity, and remarks that are often obvious attempts of challenge voting persuasion - if not challenge manipulation. |
think this is very well said and personally i totally agree with the contents of these lines ~ |
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11/25/2005 03:23:57 AM · #29 |
Screw etiquette. If restricting what can and cannot be posted on the grounds that it detracts from the current challenge is ideed in order perhaps it should be the people who are requesting such action to carry the burden of proof as to how this is happening. Show me how showing an out-take that is not very simmilar to an entry actually hurts this site or a challenge. Anything other then solid proof just sounds so anal.
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11/25/2005 03:33:24 AM · #30 |
| i don't know what it means when people "do this" with their fingers. |
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11/25/2005 03:48:59 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Screw etiquette. If restricting what can and cannot be posted on the grounds that it detracts from the current challenge is ideed in order perhaps it should be the people who are requesting such action to carry the burden of proof as to how this is happening. Show me how showing an out-take that is not very simmilar to an entry actually hurts this site or a challenge. Anything other then solid proof just sounds so anal. |
Hear Hear.....
I may not quite agree with the words you have used but the sentiment is spot on for me.
I really struggle to understand how having seen outtakes before, or during voting should have an influence on ones voting on an individual image in an individual challenge.
I thought the general approach was to assess each image on its own merits.
Very few images in any of the challenges are totally unique. They are all variation or developments of something else. So we have all seen something similar before, does that mean we are always influenced in our voting.
I think we should get back to the rationale behind the creation of this site, which was to have a community where people could help each other by sharing their thoughts and ideas to develop and improve their photography.
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11/25/2005 03:54:49 AM · #32 |
i was thinking lot of people give 1 or 2 or 3 randomly, could it be implemented that if someone gives 1 to someone, that 1 will not be counted until and unless he leaves the comment (user-name shall be anon at least till voting finishes).
So in this case if you do not explain, that particular vote will not be counted.
Originally posted by frisca:
I think many people agree with this, but we've yet to find a good way to communicate this thought into site policy or site administration. |
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11/25/2005 04:16:29 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
i was thinking lot of people give 1 or 2 or 3 randomly, could it be implemented that if someone gives 1 to someone, that 1 will not be counted until and unless he leaves the comment (user-name shall be anon at least till voting finishes).
So in this case if you do not explain, that particular vote will not be counted.
Originally posted by frisca:
I think many people agree with this, but we've yet to find a good way to communicate this thought into site policy or site administration. |
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This goes abit far afield from the context of this thread, but is an often requested change in its own right. A quick search for 'low vote comments' or some such will yeild much reading. The primary reason for not entering it is that forcing comments will lead to meaningless comments -- or an arbitrary raising of the low score given.
David
Message edited by author 2005-11-25 04:17:52.
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11/25/2005 04:26:29 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by Artan:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Screw etiquette. If restricting what can and cannot be posted on the grounds that it detracts from the current challenge is ideed in order perhaps it should be the people who are requesting such action to carry the burden of proof as to how this is happening. Show me how showing an out-take that is not very simmilar to an entry actually hurts this site or a challenge. Anything other then solid proof just sounds so anal. |
Hear Hear.....
I may not quite agree with the words you have used but the sentiment is spot on for me.
I really struggle to understand how having seen outtakes before, or during voting should have an influence on ones voting on an individual image in an individual challenge.
I thought the general approach was to assess each image on its own merits.
Very few images in any of the challenges are totally unique. They are all variation or developments of something else. So we have all seen something similar before, does that mean we are always influenced in our voting.
I think we should get back to the rationale behind the creation of this site, which was to have a community where people could help each other by sharing their thoughts and ideas to develop and improve their photography. |
I could not agree more.
It's not the subject that makes the photograph.
It's not what others photographers have done with the subject, either.
It is what that particular photographer does with that particular subject at that particular instant in time that makes the photograph.
Saying it is anything else removes from the photographer the best chance to learn.
David
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11/25/2005 06:42:45 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
Originally posted by Artan:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Screw etiquette. If restricting what can and cannot be posted on the grounds that it detracts from the current challenge is ideed in order perhaps it should be the people who are requesting such action to carry the burden of proof as to how this is happening. Show me how showing an out-take that is not very simmilar to an entry actually hurts this site or a challenge. Anything other then solid proof just sounds so anal. |
Hear Hear.....
I may not quite agree with the words you have used but the sentiment is spot on for me.
I really struggle to understand how having seen outtakes before, or during voting should have an influence on ones voting on an individual image in an individual challenge.
I thought the general approach was to assess each image on its own merits.
Very few images in any of the challenges are totally unique. They are all variation or developments of something else. So we have all seen something similar before, does that mean we are always influenced in our voting.
I think we should get back to the rationale behind the creation of this site, which was to have a community where people could help each other by sharing their thoughts and ideas to develop and improve their photography. |
I could not agree more.
It's not the subject that makes the photograph.
It's not what others photographers have done with the subject, either.
It is what that particular photographer does with that particular subject at that particular instant in time that makes the photograph.
Saying it is anything else removes from the photographer the best chance to learn.
David |
Learn what ? art/photography is about expressing yourself screw what people think, you don't need approval to create, just do it and enjoy. |
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11/25/2005 06:55:29 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Show me how showing an out-take that is not very simmilar to an entry actually hurts this site or a challenge. |
Exactly. What happens in the case where people just submit an image that could have fit into a challenge that is currently up for voting without directly referring to the challenge? Would they be chastised as well (i.e. "OMG! That would have fit perfectly in the challenge. You shouldn't post it until the end of the challenge). As if.
Submitting outtakes has little or no effect on voters during a challenge. How could it? Bitching and moaning about repetitive submissions or how people "misinterpret" the challenge is another thing however, since people that do this refer directly to some of the images in the challenges and bash them. That's not cool.
Posting outtake images for a challenge or people posting images in cases where they missed the challenge deadline is totally acceptable. What harm can it do, really?
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11/25/2005 07:06:31 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Show me how showing an out-take that is not very simmilar to an entry actually hurts this site or a challenge. |
Exactly. What happens in the case where people just submit an image that could have fit into a challenge that is currently up for voting without directly referring to the challenge? Would they be chastised as well (i.e. "OMG! That would have fit perfectly in the challenge. You shouldn't post it until the end of the challenge). As if.
Submitting outtakes has little or no effect on voters during a challenge. How could it? Bitching and moaning about repetitive submissions or how people "misinterpret" the challenge is another thing however, since people that do this refer directly to some of the images in the challenges and bash them. That's not cool.
Posting outtake images for a challenge or people posting images in cases where they missed the challenge deadline is totally acceptable. What harm can it do, really? |
The out-takes that I don't care for are the one's where someone will post and say "oh I did make the deadline blah blah blah, but how do you think I would have went ?
I say tuff shit you didn't make the deadline don't try and show me your entry cause I don't care and to me it sounds like you weren't sure about your entry and didn't have the balls to enter in the first place.
Sorry if I don't come across polite.... but not a real good day here for me. |
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11/25/2005 07:29:39 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by keegbow:
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Show me how showing an out-take that is not very simmilar to an entry actually hurts this site or a challenge. |
Exactly. What happens in the case where people just submit an image that could have fit into a challenge that is currently up for voting without directly referring to the challenge? Would they be chastised as well (i.e. "OMG! That would have fit perfectly in the challenge. You shouldn't post it until the end of the challenge). As if.
Submitting outtakes has little or no effect on voters during a challenge. How could it? Bitching and moaning about repetitive submissions or how people "misinterpret" the challenge is another thing however, since people that do this refer directly to some of the images in the challenges and bash them. That's not cool.
Posting outtake images for a challenge or people posting images in cases where they missed the challenge deadline is totally acceptable. What harm can it do, really? |
The out-takes that I don't care for are the one's where someone will post and say "oh I did make the deadline blah blah blah, but how do you think I would have went ?
I say tuff shit you didn't make the deadline don't try and show me your entry cause I don't care and to me it sounds like you weren't sure about your entry and didn't have the balls to enter in the first place.
Sorry if I don't come across polite.... but not a real good day here for me. |
OK, fine then. But what harm does it do to submit outtakes during challenges? Still can't figure out why this pisses people off to no end.
Hope your day improves. Weekend is almost here.
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