The language barrier and DQ's...

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

11/08/2005 06:36:20 PM · #1

I love being a member of the Critique Club. However, I have discovered the downside: You see images after the challenge (photog's comments specifically) that you may not normally look at after a challenge and thus see the editing steps they list. So far there have been a few where I have noticed steps listed that are not legal (cloning in a basic, dogding/burning in a basic, etc.) and most of these have been on first time entries but some on the third or fourth and from people who their primary language most likely is not English.

My suggestion is this: A call for volunteers that speak languages other than/in addition to English to translate the challenge rules and have them available on the site so that others can have perhaps a better understanding. I know, there are a lot of languages, but if it is voluntary we could cover a lot of them that are the major languages. I am sure we have enough bi-lingual people here to cover this. And text pages do not take up a lot of server space at all. We could literally have hundreds/thousands of pages and not even reach the normal portfolio limits for a paid member.

This way, on the rule page, there could also be a link to read the same rules in a differnt language and perhaps offer our partners in pixels a better experience from the start.

Just a thought...

Message edited by author 2005-11-08 18:37:12.

deapee

Kodak V803

11/08/2005 06:46:55 PM · #2

no comprehende, en espanol por favor

hehe...good idea.

11/08/2005 06:56:04 PM · #3

Je ne comprends pas! Traduisez s'il vous plaÃ®t!

Ich verstehe nicht! Ã�bersetzen Sie bitte!

NÃ£o entendo! Por favor traduza!

Damn... the Russian did not work...I forgot how to get the Russian cyrillic characters in a forum like this...

Ik begrijp niet! Gelieve te vertalen!

Anyone who speaks the above can tell me how rusty I am. I am sure structure is not 100% correct, but meaning should be.

Message edited by author 2005-11-08 19:03:31.

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

11/08/2005 07:01:51 PM · #4

oh come on...60+ views an no one but Dave has an opinion?

Deapee - I thought it was anyway....we are an international site aren't we?

saracat

Pentax K10D

11/08/2005 07:04:49 PM · #5

Actually I think it's a good idea to translate all of the challenge rules and site rules.
Unfortunately, the only foreign languages I speak are 'baby' and 'toddler'...

justin_hewlett

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

11/08/2005 07:07:52 PM · #6

That sounds like an excellent idea, I'm all in favor of this. Good observation.

11/08/2005 07:10:12 PM · #7

For deapee (please do not slam me for errors - English is my first language and I tend to structure as if in English):

Amo ser un miembro del Club de CrÃtica. Sin embargo, he descubierto la desventaja: Usted ve imÃ¡genes despuÃ©s del desafÃo (los comentarios el fotÃ³grafo expresamente) que usted no puede mirar normalmente despuÃ©s de un desafÃo y asÃ ver los pasos de ediciÃ³n que ellos ponen en una lista. Hasta ahora hubo unos cuantos donde he notado que los pasos pusieron en una lista lo que no es legal (reproduciendo en un bÃ¡sico, dogding/burning en un bÃ¡sico, etc.) y la mayor parte de Ã©stos han sido durante la primera vez entradas, pero unos en el tercer o cuarto y de la gente que su lengua primaria con la mayor probabilidad no es el inglÃ©s.

Mi sugerencia es este: una llamada se ofrece que dicen lenguas otras que/ademÃ¡s del inglÃ©s para traducir las reglas de desafÃo y tenerlos disponible en el sitio de modo que los otros puedan tener quizÃ¡s un mejor entendimiento. SÃ©, hay muchas lenguas, pero si somos voluntario podrÃamos cubrir muchos de ellos que son las lenguas principales. Estoy seguro que tenemos bastantes personas bilingÃ¼es aquÃ para cubrir este. Y las pÃ¡ginas de texto no toman mucho espacio de servidor en absoluto. Nosotros podrÃamos tener literalmente cientos/miles de pÃ¡ginas y no hasta alcanzar los lÃmites de carpeta normales para un miembro pagado.

Este camino, en la pÃ¡gina de regla, tambiÃ©n podrÃa haber un eslabÃ³n para leer las mismas reglas en una lengua differnt y quizÃ¡s ofrecer a nuestros compaÃ±eros en pixeles una mejor experiencia del principio.

SÃ³lo un pensamiento...

Message edited by author 2005-11-08 19:12:18.

Pentax SMC DA 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR

11/08/2005 07:14:34 PM · #8

110 views now and so few have a view on this...how disappointing.

Prism

Pentax K-30

11/08/2005 07:15:36 PM · #9

I think this is a good idea. Anything that helps members get a clearer understanding of the expectations and limitations of what they are and are not allowed to do to post-process their photos has to be a good thing.

Prism

Pentax K-30

Pentax SMC DA 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR

11/08/2005 07:16:20 PM · #10

some of us are just slow keyboarders! 8P

Sony 16-35mm f/4 Vario-Tessar T* FE ZA OSS Lens

11/08/2005 07:16:38 PM · #11

Originally posted by saracat:

Actually I think it's a good idea to translate all of the challenge rules and site rules.
Unfortunately, the only foreign languages I speak are 'baby' and 'toddler'...

goo goo da ba ba baaaaaa. maaaaa mi ouueee ohoho ehehe. tadatada boo bee mamemimo baba da ho fola la lo pa seeeeee mama dee ti fo kakala kaka binky!

bryanbrazil

Sony Alpha a7R III

11/08/2005 07:18:31 PM · #12

I know this might not translate exact meaning, but couldn't people use //babelfish.altavista.com/ to translate the rules into their preferred language?

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM II

11/08/2005 07:24:16 PM · #13

Online translators are ok but they tend to do as I probably have done - structure as written and not necessarily as spoken in the native tongue. A lot can be lost due to this. If a native speaking or fluent bi-lingual person translated them, they would be closer to the real thing and make more sense.

Plus a lot of online translators have limits as to how many characters you can translate at a time or how often you can use them and certainly dialects would be lost on them.

A first time visitor to the site may accept the forums and such as being in English, but the rules pages would be daunting to them if they did not speak English.

This would not be hard to do, it would just take people willing to do it.

riot

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Helios 40-1 85mm f/1.5

11/08/2005 07:34:04 PM · #14

What's this "we"?

lynnesite

Canon EOS-1D X

11/08/2005 07:45:49 PM · #15

>>110 views now and so few have a view on this...how disappointing.<<

I can agree with you, yet not have anything to contribute in terms of language skills! 'zat what you want? I expect not!

11/08/2005 07:50:12 PM · #16

well support of the idea, language skills or not, would let the admins know how we feel. Keeping quiet says nothing...

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/08/2005 07:51:28 PM · #17

Originally posted by riot:

What's this "we"?

what 'we' are you referring to? the 'international' site remark? Well we are aren't we? There are photographers fom all over the world here. Are they not just as much a part of this community as you are? That is the WE I am referring to.

Message edited by author 2005-11-08 19:56:38.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

11/08/2005 07:59:13 PM · #18

On its face, I like this idea a lot. It does, however, present a couple issues:

- Once we post the rules in a given language, we'd need to be able to post all rules updates in that language as well, in order to support those users. As a site we'd have to be able to commit to that based on a promise of future support from our same volunteers.

- Posting the rules in multiple languages may create an expectation that members will be able to interact with Site Council in their native languages. We would not be able to meet that expectation.

I'll support anything that makes DPC more accessible to the community, so I'm open to any suggestions on dealing with these issues.

~Terry

Message edited by author 2005-11-08 20:00:14.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/08/2005 07:59:51 PM · #19

I've been realtively inactive for the lat couple days, but I'm following this with interest. Here's the problem as I see it:

The rules are written by English speakers, in English. Now, as an editor and sometime-translator, I'm very aware that any tanslation into another language introduces "nuances" of expression. Let's suppose that D&L agreed to "official" translations of the rules. Let's suppose further that the nuances of the rules changed (however slightly) in translation. See the problem?

We already have serious debates about what the rule "mean" in English alone. Introduce translations, and tell the international community that they may read them in their own language, and we are increasing by an order of magnitude the complexities of interpretation...

I don' know what the solution is...

R.

riot

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Helios 40-1 85mm f/1.5

11/08/2005 08:00:22 PM · #20

Originally posted by Alienyst:

Originally posted by riot:
What's this "we"?

what 'we' are you referring to? the 'international' site remark? Well we are aren't we? There are photographers fom all over the world here. Are they not just as much a part of this community as you are? That is the WE I am referring to.

Dunno, i was just being antagonistic. I'm not from wherever you are, but i wouldn't call this site international. It's a firmly english-speaking site, with solidly western aesthetic ideals at its core and in its principle of execution. That won't change any time soon, even if we do get some translation in for the rules; the forums are just as big a part of this site as the challenges are, and both require an understanding of the english descriptions from a natural english speaker's perspective for the poster / photographer to have any success.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

11/08/2005 08:11:51 PM · #21

Originally posted by lynnesite:

110 views now and so few have a view on this

If nothing else good comes out of this thread, know this: I never knew there was a place you could see how many views there were on a thread until now. I always click stuff off the home page only - never go through the forum listings much. Ya learn something new everyday! :)

Now - on the subject at hand - I would be happy to do rules translation in Icelandic. How do you say "Your photo cannot be taken in Iceland" in Icelandic? :P

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

11/08/2005 08:12:13 PM · #22

I think it's best to keep it in English.

Riot is correct, it is an English site; Terry is right, translation would be a much bigger undertaking than just thinking of translating the rules; and Bear is right, translation isn't nearly as easy as it would seem. Hey, I know, English is not my first language and I used to translate class materials for a department at a college for a while. It's not easy.

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

11/08/2005 08:13:11 PM · #23

Originally posted by kpriest:

Originally posted by lynnesite:
110 views now and so few have a view on this

If nothing else good comes out of this thread, know this: I never knew there was a place you could see how many views there were on a thread until now. I always click stuff off the home page only - never go through the forum listings much. Ya learn something new everyday! :)

Now - on the subject at hand - I would be happy to do rules translation in Icelandic. How do you say "Your photo cannot be taken in Iceland" in Icelandic? :P

I was wondering about that. How did he find out how many views for the thread?