DPC Mentorship - The Business of Photography

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

10/29/2005 04:36:04 PM · #1

DPC Mentorship â�� Rules of the Road

Group: Business of Photography
Mentor: mavrik (mentors at large - Bear Music & Methos?)
Students (closed): mandyturner, Beach Mel, oOWonderBreadOo, rebelgirl, pgatt, jpochard, di53, LKMote, Kekiinani, wavelength

NON-MEMBERS PLEASE READ, TOO:

1. If you are not an active member of this mentorship group, please feel free to follow this thread. It is not intended to be exclusionary - we hope everyone can learn from it.

2. If you are not an active member of this group but have a question or comment, please send it directly to the mentor by Private Message. The mentor will either answer you directly or post your comment and their response to the thread. Thank you for understanding that we are trying to keep these groups small and on-topic.

3. Mentors are volunteers with jobs and/or families. They're human too, and may make mistakes on (many) occasions. If you feel the burning need to criticize them, point out a mistake, or point out your own infinately greater knowledge in the subject they are teaching, please do so in a PM to the mentor, not in this thread AND start your own mentor group, inviting the mentor to be the first student.

4. Have fun learning!

Message edited by author 2005-10-30 10:42:35.

Beach_mel

Nikon D70s

10/29/2005 04:39:32 PM · #2

Can I sign up?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/29/2005 04:40:11 PM · #3

I added you - if everyone can PM me to get on (besides Mandy and Mel) that will keep this pretty clean to begin the thread. :) I'll begin when we have 5 or 6, but no more than 10 active.

M

Message edited by author 2005-10-29 16:40:35.

mandyturner

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

10/29/2005 04:47:22 PM · #4

Thanks Mavrik for taking the time to help others like me.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/29/2005 04:59:32 PM · #5

You're welcome Mandy and now that we're at 5 we have enough to get started.

Fire away with your questions first - I will try to answer those and then we'll get into starting up and sort of "going from scratch"

:)

M

mandyturner

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

10/29/2005 05:02:15 PM · #6

What is the best way to begin? I have already been taking pictures for people but I need to start all over. Right now, what I am doing just seems unorganized and unprofessional. They look at my work on my laptop. I know I need a print portfolio. I am trying to get one together. I have no idea what kind of photos to include. Could you look at my portfolio here on DPC and tell me if I should include any of those? I was thinking of shooting for the portfolio instead. I want the pictures in the portfolio to be GOOD.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/29/2005 05:15:06 PM · #7

The best way to start is to think about what you want to shoot - people. Specifically? Families? Kids? High school seniors? You said no weddings, but there are probably some in the group who are into that as well. What do you want to shoot - and why?

For print portfolios, I have to say that I would be looking into the Illuma Memory book that I posted on here a few days ago - you get 50% off your first book, which can be a 10x15, 12x12, or smaller if you are trying to start up on almost no fundage.

What do you want to shoot, and why?

mandyturner

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

10/29/2005 05:21:42 PM · #8

I want to do portraits of children and families, maybe pets (that is so hard for me though). I don't want boring pictures. I want my portraits to stand out. So far I have been hired to do football pictures, cheeleading pictures, senior pictures and pictures for pageants (photos needed for entry into the "Most Photogenic" catagory), family pictures and portraits of children. I have done a few pictures of real estate (BORING). I can shoot the pictures now, but will not have the funding to make the portfolio until income tax time unless I get more work.

10/29/2005 05:27:07 PM · #9

Ok, what makes a portrait "not boring" to you? Composition, color, post processing effects? Do you think you're more interested in timeless portraiture or contemporary art of people? Album covers or wall portraits? And why?

The rest of you can jump in as well - what do you want to do in a photography business?

M

10/29/2005 05:35:14 PM · #10

I'd want to be able to sell prints (landscapes mainly), but with my wife we've at least entertained the idea of portraits and other types of photography. Just starting with prices to charge and legal blah blah is quite daunting from this corner. I think my prints are marketable in that people have wanted to buy them from time to time, but other times I feel like they're just telling me that because they are friends.

LKMote

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

10/29/2005 05:39:55 PM · #11

Thanks Mavrik for letting me join in.

I'd like to get into the business of Equestrian Photography. Right now I am still learning my camera. I've had it for about a year now and am really enjoying it. I'd like to know what equipment you find helpful with running a photography business. As well as what lenses would be helpful to have and any other suggestions.

Message edited by author 2005-10-29 17:40:31.

jpochard

Canon EOS-40D

10/29/2005 05:45:34 PM · #12

Matt, thanks so much for offering your advice to us! Mandy, thanks for starting the ball rolling!

As I wrote to Matt, I am interested in "baby steps" with the eventual goal of doing photography part time. I would like to eventually have just a home studio, but not a commercial one. I'm not as edgy as Mandy in my portraits...mostly working right now more on the technical aspects of just a good, solid portrait. I feel like if I can get that consistantly, then I will start playing around a bit more with the poses and ideas. I also enjoy photographing local sites, and pretty much anything of interest. I have paired many photos up with scripture verses and I enjoy putting together those types of presentations.

I expect my best business will come from weddings, maternity, and other portraits.

I have done two small weddings, a couple of senior portrait shoots, and a couple of maternity portrait shoots. I've also sold a few prints. I don't have a DSLR or any pro lighting equipment, so everything I do is "make do".

Most all of my work is posted at My pbase gallery My portraits are in the "People/studio/weddings" gallery.

Some of my questions are regarding presenting myself as a paid photographer, how much to charge, and building a "name" locally.

Kekiinani

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

10/29/2005 05:47:35 PM · #13

I would like to learn ways to market my photos. You know somehoe getting the photos that I have or take out there so others can see then. I know I would need some sort of a portfolio but I dont know what exactly that would mean size of print? In a binder? and how to present that to a gallery owner that would make the decision to display and ultimately sell the prints. Do you just walk into a place and plop it down and let them have a look or is there some sort or protocal? Do you set the price of your photos do they? What should you expect?? I currently do mostly landscape and flowers which I love. But would like to branch out into outdoor portriats since we have such beautiful locations. How do get started with doing portriats? I currently do seel my photos in cards but that is thru a friends Choc. Shop in CA. so I have no idea what to expect in the real world. Hope these questions are not to basic or sound dumb. I surely do not wish to waste anyones time. I have been going thru various sites seeking info on portfolios and marketing and this just seems so timely for me. Thank you in advance for you time and assistance.. Renee :)

wavelength

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

10/29/2005 05:54:24 PM · #14

Thanks Matt, last spot eh? Cool.

I mostly like to work in Landscape and nature, but I also love macro. I and my wife have been getting into portraiture, and done a few free shoots just to get some experience and to get our name out.

I'm looking to learn the ins and outs of Stock, running a portrait business, and breaking into business need or advertising photography on commission.

Should I try to advertise the portraits, or stick with the viral effect of referrals?

Should I get studio space, or stick with outdoors? Will people mind that much if I set up in the living room and have them come over?

Small business loans or save up? What prices to charge, more, and more, and more.

edit - don't get me started on web storefronts... oi veh!

Message edited by author 2005-10-29 17:57:05.

10/29/2005 06:01:57 PM · #15

Great stuff so far to work with - I'd like to get replies to this question from di, rebelgirl, wonderbread and whichever other person hasn't replied yet if possible. Then I'm going to take a stab at organizing some of these thoughts.

oOWonderBreadOo

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

10/29/2005 06:04:10 PM · #16

Hey all- I'm Laura & I work part time for a photographer here in Arizona as a photo editor.
My head is swimming! I'd like to get more into portraiture as well as stock photography. I guess I need to know how much I need! I have no studio at all and not much space for one. I move my furniture around everytime I have a 'client' (which have so far been friends who need something for a model shoot or business card). Speaking of- who here has business cards? Maybe we could talk about that!
I also whould like to do more artistic things with my photography and am very interested in digital manipulation.
Thanks again Matt for starting this group!
(By the way, it has taken me almost a half an hour to write this, as I have 3 & 4 year olds runnning around me most of the time!!!)

wavelength

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

10/29/2005 06:10:50 PM · #17

What do I want to shoot and why?

Everything I guess. I love this stuff, I love the way my mind has opened up to light, and colors, and seeing everything again. Most of us walk around not noticing half of what's around us. I want to document the beautiful things in all of our lives. I want to take portraits that show a beautiful soul, I want to take landscapes that make you cry with their beauty, and make you feel the wind and smell the fresh air. I want to take pictures that make you feel something.

Unfortunately, I also want more time to do it in, which means that I need to get a new job, and I don't want to do any other job than this right now :o)

Beach_mel

Nikon D70s

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

10/29/2005 06:23:56 PM · #18

Hi, I'm Mel and I'm a photoholic.

I am starting my own photography business. I was luckily enough to lose my job this year when they closed my office (but with a nice cushion from corporate headquarters). I am currently an at home mom and have just set up a studio in my home. I have the base model of everything, lights, backdrop stand, camera etc. I want to work in portraiture, modeling, stock, almost everything. I'm drawn to portraiture because I like to try to capture who someone really is... in a picture. I am also lucky enough to have had a really good base photography education that I'm brushing off after umpteen years of being out of school. I'm looking to flesh out my portfolio to appeal to my chosen client base and also decide which way to grow/market myself. We live in a small town and I'm very well networked so that will help. When my office closed I gave myself three to six months to learn my new equipment and build a portfolio. Iâ��m creeping up on the three month mark but am very satisfied with the equipment end. However, Iâ��m having problems with the portfolio building. I think that offering to shoot people for free doesnâ��t have them place any value on what you are doing and I need to specifically target what Iâ��m lacking in my portfolio and seek those individuals out to shoot. This evening I will try to update my DPC portfolio to give a better overview of my photography so far.

Too many sentences in this start with â��Iâ�� sorry!

10/29/2005 07:54:42 PM · #19

Ok, so here we go!

It seems that everyone is hitting the major areas of the business - portraits, stock, sports, landscape & nature, etc. We will delve into more specifics (equestrian, maternity) later but let's talk specifics.

Everyone also seems to be in the "has a camera, needs LOTS more gear, LOTS more money" boat. We also have a mix of DSLR and P&S in this group. That's going to be an issue quickly in your fledgling business. None of those P&S cameras is a bad P&S. I think all of you were talking about portraits however - which shutter lag stinks for. The lenses that come with these cameras are pretty good, but they aren't "professional" and that's what we're all talking about becoming, right?

//www.apollo-imagizing.com/illbooks.php

This is the Illuma Memory Book - very handy to look at as we get started.

So the first thing you'll need to do is figure out what your budget is for this venture. If you have $15, you have $15. It won't get you far, but it can be used. You have to tell yourself honestly how much you can put into this right now, financially and time-wise. If you can't afford $30 for an Illuma Book portfolio, can you afford the time to create some prints and try to sell them at a craft fair? Can you work an hour overtime next week and put $15 or $30 towards that book?

If you do not have the photos to put together a book in the style you want, find a way to get them. Yes, do them free. We do this still - we're trying to grow certain parts of our business and free, no commitment is the way to go. You have friends - photograph them, their children, their relatives. You have co workers. Tell them you're looking for dogs, cats, horses or children to photograph. Someone will say "ohhh that sounds great!" Then you have more pictures. Use your own family as little as possible. Definitely do not use yourself if possible (even if you have kickass Mandy-eyes).

If you have the photos together that you need to create an Illuma and you have the money, create an Illuma Book. You may need to use their templates. You may need to use Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro trial to create those pages. Whatever you do, show your best work in the type of photo you want to do.

Get that book on the way to your home. The coffee table album in itself entices some people who see it. You can also bring it with you to work, to parents, to family events, etc. Show people what you do. Let everyone know you're serious about giving this a go.

Message edited by author 2005-10-29 19:55:55.

10/29/2005 08:33:57 PM · #20

I was already looking at something similar in //www.momento.com.au - my aim was between now and March (arbritary date) to have the photos together and get one copy and then look around for help to finance it being put through a print run. I was just wondering whether this was a good way to start?

Message edited by author 2005-10-29 20:35:52.

10/29/2005 08:51:21 PM · #21

The difference between that book and Illuma is that it doesn't seem to support a full page layout.

//www.pictureinfinity.com/weddings/albums/henderson.html

This is an album we just got done from Illuma - the pages printed full without the white borders. I think that looks much nicer but that's up to you. Are you in AU? I'll try to keep that in mind as I share some of the links and such.

M

10/29/2005 09:02:12 PM · #22

Yep I'm in Australia. I agree it looks better printed full. I hadn't noticed it didn't. Bummer Thanks Mavrik, Back to the drawing board!

10/29/2005 09:08:26 PM · #23

The thing I think I want to stress most is what you're saying tho - what if you can't get an Illuma? We used to have a shutterfly album that's just like that Momento book. It worked! It wasn't what we wanted, but it worked. Whatever gets you from where you are to where you need to be, right? :)

10/29/2005 09:15:57 PM · #24

I guess back a step was more my question - will this get me to where I want to be? Will this sell photos etc.