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10/19/2005 01:20:39 PM · #76 |
Intelligence
"Intelligence is a general mental capability that involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas and language, and learn. In psychology, the study of intelligence is related to the study of personality but is not the same as creativity, personality, character, or wisdom."
Knowledge
"is the act or condition of knowing something with a familiarity gained through experience or association. It means "to perceive directly", "to have direct cognition", to "apprehend intellectually", "to acquire facts"."
"What is known by perceptual experience and reasoning. For example, 1234567.89 is data; "Your bank balance has jumped 8087% to $1234567.89" is information; "Nobody owes me that much money" is knowledge; and "I'd better talk to the bank before I spend it because of what has happened to other people" is wisdom."
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10/19/2005 01:21:36 PM · #77 |
ScottK,
Reticence does not mean lack of thought. It simply means to have not said. And I do believe third place is most worthy.
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10/19/2005 01:25:01 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
...They all got top 10 anyway. And that is an accomplishment. |
Sounds a bit different now than your original post..."a joke. sub-par to good." Sorry, that doesn't sound like common courtesy to me.
Originally posted by Cutter:
Pride is, well, a joke.
Take away the titles of the rest, and a stretch of the imagination and we have 7 others images that range from sub-par to good in a stand alone judging. ... |
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10/19/2005 01:28:03 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
ScottK,
Those definitions are exactly my point. If someone doesn't have the capacity for knowledge, they are unintelligent. If you don't have the capacity for knowledge, then you certainly can't have knowledge itself. So intelligence and knowledge are linked hand in hand. If I know 101 things, and you know 102. You are more knowledgable. If I know 101 things 100 times better than you know those 101 things, than I am more intelligent...you see?
Most people knew that it was a leaf = knowledge
Some people knew that it was a symbol for canada = intelligent
Do you see the application aspect there? That is what I am speaking of. |
Uh, no. That some people know its the symbol for Cananda is still knowledge. If you've never heard of Canada, how could you know what its symbol is? You may argue that most informed people, or most enlightened people should possess this bit of knowledge, but possessing or lacking a single, discreet piece of knowledge does not equate to intelligence.
A better extrapolation might be:
Most people knew that it was a leaf = knowledge
Some people knew that it was a symbol for canada = more knowledge
Some people knew that one aspect of pride can be expressed in pride for your country and its symbols = yet more knowledge
Some people know that canada is a country, and that people reside there = further knowledge
Some people figured out that people from Canada might display their pride in their country by taking a picture depiciting their national symbol = intelegence - applying all the above to reach an intelligent conclusion.
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10/19/2005 01:30:08 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
Most people knew that it was a leaf = knowledge
Some people knew that it was a symbol for canada = intelligent
Do you see the application aspect there? That is what I am speaking of. |
I see the opposite! (bear_music's definitions above are pretty clear)
Recognising it is a photo of a leaf = Intelligence - this is something that is learned, part of our general mental capability.
Knowing the maple leaf is Canada's emblem = Knowledge - this is a fact that is acquired.
So I really think the word 'unknowledgeable' would have been more appropriate than 'unintelligent' in your original statement.
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10/19/2005 01:32:54 PM · #81 |
okay, i am not getting through. And that is okay. That is what debate is about. Congrats to all the winners. Nothing against the photographer, just the photos. Until the next one......
In the words of a top 10'er
***finished with this discussion***
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10/19/2005 01:38:55 PM · #82 |
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10/19/2005 01:39:31 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Recognising it is a photo of a leaf = Intelligence - this is something that is learned, part of our general mental capability.
Knowing the maple leaf is Canada's emblem = Knowledge - this is a fact that is acquired.
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Bingo! And THAT, my friend, is using "intelligence" to reason your way to a conclusion. I was hoping someone would do that when I posted the definitions :-)
R.
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10/19/2005 02:01:28 PM · #84 |
Y'know... putting aside debates over intelligence vs. knowledge, and whether the concept can stand without a title, I do understand how there could be some disappointment with the results. As I noted, it was a difficult topic, and the scores reflect that. Visually demonstrating an abstract concept like pride is among the most difficult tasks for a photographer because you [ideally] have the express the whole story rather than just the result. If you showed many of these entries to someone outside the challenge context, the concept of "pride" might not be readily apparent. That's not to say that they aren't good photos or didn't deserve to win, but IMO this is a case where the voters were a little more forgiving and willing to make the connection (with the title or other unseen element) to complete the concept.
I almost entered this one. I was going to have my daughter standing in her intricately painted bedroom as if she painted it herself. She would have been splattered with paint, standing in front of her wall with arms folded, holding a paintbrush, and grinning from ear to ear. I think that combination, showing hard work and an obvious look of satisfaction, would have been my best shot at expressing pride. I didn't have time (or the motivation) to clear out her room for this shot, so I didn't enter. There are no guarantees that it would have scored well, but the challenge connection would have been obvious.
Many of the entries IMO show either the "expression" of pride OR the "thing" to be proud of, but not the complete story. They're all valid as examples of Pride, of course, but I think Ennil's 6th place was a good example of really nailing the concept. |
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10/19/2005 04:00:13 PM · #85 |
I would like to say at this stage that I only entered mine so that I could use a rather weak pun.
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10/19/2005 04:30:52 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
bear,
that is not even close to what I am saying. I am saying that a picture can show both joy AND pride. One or both. Yours shows joy. Not pride. As I said, if we had context to why it shows pride, then it can be both. |
I don't have time to read through the entire thing yet but wanted to side with Bear and re-say what I said in threads during voting: The details say "Photograph your interpretation of "Pride"." NOT the voters interpretation of Pride, YOUR interpretation.
Who are you to say that the picture doesn't display pride?
I know my image of the American flag got a low score partically cause of it's subject, (and it's technical level). I do have pride in that flag, I have lost shipmates who defended that flag. Americans (and other countries people) have lived under that flag and the protection and freedom it brings and SHOULD be proud of it and what it means to live in the US. That flag was used to bandage our soliders and lead our own kin to a better life.
You can't say something doesn't contain pride just cause you don't like it. Maybe the images in the top don't instill pride in everyone but I'm betting the people that voted it that high either did get the pride or understood it was the PHOTOGRAPHER that was supposed to feel the pride NOT the voter.
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10/19/2005 04:46:37 PM · #87 |
I would have thought an intelligent person would have realised that all the voters selected the top 10. Not just the individual who could not see pride in those images.
Maybe the individual who could not see pride was out of step with the marjority of voters? and just maybe the individual had a vested interest because his own image did not finish in the top ten.
I have absolutely no respect at all for anyone who comes on here after a challenge and slams the ribbon winners, it is just so childish and an act of a bitter person you can't accept the voters prefered other images.
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10/19/2005 09:52:30 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by keegbow:
I have absolutely no respect at all for anyone who comes on here after a challenge and slams the ribbon winners, it is just so childish and an act of a bitter person you can't accept the voters prefered other images. |
Actually, the ribbon winners are the photos to dissect and to place the most critical 'eye' upon. How else will you learn? The ribbons are won (unless they get dq'ed) and criticism does not change the results, so why not take advantage of the opportunity for discussion. Were they the best photographs? Why did they win? Was the pride winner because of the photograph or the photographer? Did the ribbon photos place because they are the best photographs depicting a theme or the best liked style here at DP? Lots of questions are possible. Mostly, they do not get asked. Too bad.
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10/19/2005 09:57:19 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
Originally posted by keegbow:
I have absolutely no respect at all for anyone who comes on here after a challenge and slams the ribbon winners, it is just so childish and an act of a bitter person you can't accept the voters prefered other images. |
Actually, the ribbon winners are the photos to dissect and to place the most critical 'eye' upon. How else will you learn? The ribbons are won (unless they get dq'ed) and criticism does not change the results, so why not take advantage of the opportunity for discussion. Were they the best photographs? Why did they win? Was the pride winner because of the photograph or the photographer? Did the ribbon photos place because they are the best photographs depicting a theme or the best liked style here at DP? Lots of questions are possible. Mostly, they do not get asked. Too bad. |
You miss my point, they are the winners because it is a popular vote. They won because the majority of voters voted these the highest it is quite simple. I can understand a disection and debate if it was a contest with a single judge or jury but this is a poll end of story. |
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10/19/2005 10:05:10 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by keegbow:
You miss my point, they are the winners because it is a popular vote. They won because the majority of voters voted these the highest it is quite simple. I can understand a disection and debate if it was a contest with a single judge or jury but this is a poll end of story. |
So, you say the ribbon winners here are chosen by popularity? I had hoped for more from this site. I had hoped that the challenges were held to provide an opportunity to learn and not to create a niche of popular people and styles. It must make all the so called ribbon 'winners' accomplishment seem hollow.......
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10/19/2005 10:08:13 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
I believe only three pictures in the top 10 in PRIDE evoke any sense of pride....and that is using a liberal understanding of that word.
Numbers 6-8 are all fine in the correlation to challenge (national and workmanship pride). But seriously, other than those, I see a couple of portraits (both animal and human) and a couple of location shots.
Celebration and Personification results were fantastic and right where they should be. Pride is, well, a joke.
Take away the titles of the rest, and a stretch of the imagination and we have 7 others images that range from sub-par to good in a stand alone judging. I am sure you all disagree. But then again, maybe not. |
I totally agree with you on this. |
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10/19/2005 10:11:29 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
Originally posted by keegbow:
You miss my point, they are the winners because it is a popular vote. They won because the majority of voters voted these the highest it is quite simple. I can understand a disection and debate if it was a contest with a single judge or jury but this is a poll end of story. |
So, you say the ribbon winners here are chosen by popularity? I had hoped for more from this site. I had hoped that the challenges were held to provide an opportunity to learn and not to create a niche of popular people and styles. It must make all the so called ribbon 'winners' accomplishment seem hollow....... |
Once again you miss my point, it has nothing to do with the popularity of the photographer these challenges are conducted without our knowledge of who took the photo. The winners are the winners because collectively we selected them, whether or not you individually agree does not matter because we as a group thought they were the best. |
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10/19/2005 10:15:26 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
So, you say the ribbon winners here are chosen by popularity? I had hoped for more from this site. I had hoped that the challenges were held to provide an opportunity to learn and not to create a niche of popular people and styles. It must make all the so called ribbon 'winners' accomplishment seem hollow....... |
First, popularity and 'the popular vote' are two different (though related) things, and second, it is the photos which are chosen, not the photographers...
(though i seem to be a bit late with this post) (-:
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10/19/2005 10:18:00 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by keegbow:
Once again you miss my point, it has nothing to do with the popularity of the photographer these challenges are conducted without our knowledge of who took the photo. The winners are the winners because collectively we selected them, whether or not you individually agree does not matter because we as a group thought they were the best. |
Sorry, I do not miss your point. You are very naive if you think all the photos here are unknown to voters. If it is not by subject matter then it is by style. Do you really think goodman or the guy that does pretty little asian girls is not instantly recognizable?
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10/19/2005 10:25:44 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
Originally posted by keegbow:
Once again you miss my point, it has nothing to do with the popularity of the photographer these challenges are conducted without our knowledge of who took the photo. The winners are the winners because collectively we selected them, whether or not you individually agree does not matter because we as a group thought they were the best. |
Sorry, I do not miss your point. You are very naive if you think all the photos here are unknown to voters. If it is not by subject matter then it is by style. Do you really think goodman or the guy that does pretty little asian girls is not instantly recognizable? |
Of course there are a few syles that are reconisable but what would that amount to about 1% of the entries.
They are recognisable because they are good and people like that style and vote those images higher but also these syles tend to go in cycles, I know with me personally I can't stand to see the veil look I think it has been over done here but if the majority still like, so be it. |
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10/19/2005 10:28:28 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
Do you really think goodman or the guy that does pretty little asian girls is not instantly recognizable? |
We vote on the pictures, not the photographers. Goodman and Librodo have each had recent scores below 6. Just because we know whose shot it is, that doesn't mean we have to like it (although we often do because they usually take darn good photos).
Message edited by author 2005-10-19 22:30:08. |
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10/19/2005 10:33:51 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by keegbow:
They are recognisable because they are good and people like that style and vote those images higher but also these syles tend to go in cycles, I know with me personally I can't stand to see the veil look I think it has been over done here but if the majority still like, so be it. |
I think voting and ribbons are great opportunities to learn.......we shouldn't be afraid.........to create a site that develops clones is a very very bad thing............we should be very very afraid of that........ :-)
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10/19/2005 10:35:38 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by azoychka:
Do you really think goodman or the guy that does pretty little asian girls is not instantly recognizable? |
We vote on the pictures, not the photographers. Goodman and Librodo have each had recent scores below 6. Just because we know whose shot it is, that doesn't mean we have to like it (although we often do because they usually take darn good photos). |
Yes and the 6's resulted because of?........Oh yes, sometimes what we like becomes more of a habit than a treat..... |
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10/19/2005 10:38:36 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
Yes and the 6's resulted because of? |
Superior photography. That never gets old. ;-) |
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10/19/2005 10:42:06 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by azoychka:
Yes and the 6's resulted because of? |
Superior photography. That never gets old. ;-) |
No, why did they score so low? I will venture a guess.....because they were not recognized?
Message edited by author 2005-10-19 22:45:46. |
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