must comment to vote - DPChallenge Forums

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

09/23/2005 12:11:58 AM · #1

I did a search of the forums but didn't see this subject, but I know it must have come up before.

I would like to see voting enabled only after commenting, picture by picture.

I think the benefits would far outweigh the downfalls to this. I think there would be less complaining, more honesty, more learning in the long run.

It seems it would be better to have fewer votes if that meant you got more comments. After about 75-100 votes your average is pretty much are within range of your final score anyway. I would much rather have 50-100 comments than 300 votes.

Also I would like to see the vote recorded with the comment so you can connect the score given with the opinion and reasoning behind it. I don't see why it should be anonymous. By being up front with your comments and scores I think it would keep people more honest. Why would you not want to own your comments, unless there is foul or dishonest play in mind. I don't want those comments. They are divisive and harmful.

any comments? :)

brian

Chiqui

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

09/23/2005 12:18:19 AM · #2

Absolutely not! If this was implemented nobody would vote or they would put something like "." in the comment box. This has been discussed before. You can't make people comment and you certaintly can't make it mandatory in order to vote. Some people have a hard time finding well....the time just to vote, imagine if they were forced to comment as well. A comment should be viewed as something nice and helpful but not mandatory. Can you tell I'm totally against this?

June

Chiqui

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

09/23/2005 12:19:36 AM · #3

Another thing, I also believe voting should be annonymous. People get nasty PMs about the comments as it is, imagine what it would be like if people knew who gave them that 1. Once again, absolutely not.

June

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

09/23/2005 12:21:16 AM · #4

I like pressin buttons better than typin letters. clickclickclickclickclick... its cool.

Message edited by author 2005-09-23 00:21:47.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

09/23/2005 12:24:47 AM · #5

Very few have the fortitude to comment on every picture in a challenge.

Some entries are just so mundane that they inspire no words, no response worthy of expending the effort to type.

SJCarter

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

09/23/2005 12:26:26 AM · #6

I think there are certainly inherent problems with your proposal (not the least being that people would comment "anything" just to be able to vote), but I personally am trying to maintain a ratio of 100 comments for every challenge I enter. I think that's a reasonable goal and one that everyone can benefit from (not that my comments are expert by any means - just that I've always considered ANY feedback on my images to be a plus).

As far as the "baghead" comments go, I have no problem with people concealing their identity until the challenge is over. And although I don't use this feature, I have frequently received PMs during a challenge regarding the comment that I have just left on an entry. That can certainly be counterproductive IMHO, but I just choose to ignore them. By offering the baghead option, this "annoyance" is minimized. People are still able to respond to comments after the challenge is over; but by that time if they (or I) have 10 comments that say the same thing, they are (or I am) less likely to fire back a response to the feedback I didn't agree with or care for. I think this is a good thing - certainly from a commenter's perspective.

Just my 2 cents...

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

09/23/2005 12:26:59 AM · #7

The whole voting machinery is greased by anonymity. Take that away, and kiss honest voting goodbye. Seriously. Who wants to have to defend their scoring on a constant basis? If you're gonna have transparent voting, may's well put the entrant's name on the image too, and just let the whole thing degenerate into a popularity contest feelgood site.

R.

sestevens

09/23/2005 12:27:40 AM · #8

The mathematics of doing such thing is impossible. The amount of time to do such a thing isn't just very time consuming, but if you do it right, giving 20 real critiques or comments (we're not talking "That's neat! :)" comments either) can be exhausting for anyone. With the large amount of challenges, coupled with the incredible amount of entries, no sane person would do this, unless, of course, they are online 24/7. And in that case, they'll probably get fired from their job and lose their internet access anyway. :)

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

09/23/2005 12:28:25 AM · #9

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Very few have the fortitude to comment on every picture in a challenge.

Some entries are just so mundane that they inspire no words, no response worthy of expending the effort to type.

I didn't mean that they should vote on every one, just that for a vote to count on whichever one, that a comment be included to give a reason for their choice. What good is a vote alone anyway. That wouldn't help me. It just tells me where i stand in relation to others.

shadow

Sony DSC-W1

09/23/2005 12:31:26 AM · #10

if comment is a MUST for voting, these 2 scenarios most probably would happen:

1. we get only about 30 votes on an image
2. we get comments that are not helpful, or worse, totally meaningless (example: ok)

sestevens

09/23/2005 12:32:06 AM · #11

You know, I haven't been here long, but people point fingers at each other everywhere. Cheating, consorting with friends, purposely giving low scores, 'they're anonymous'. And for what, a 'ribbon' on an internet site? You gotta be kidding me. I just don't see the point on getting riled up at it. If anything, any supposed actions and the complaints towards such actions quickly can take the fun out of this site. And that's what I see this site as. Fun, and an opportunity to do something different.

Originally posted by bear_music:

stormy

Canon EOS-50D

09/23/2005 12:33:08 AM · #12

I have seen it complained many times on this site that the middle scorers don't get many comments, with your proposal, they are unlikely to get many votes either, making the whole challenge void of any meaning.

Message edited by author 2005-09-23 00:36:55.

SJCarter

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

09/23/2005 12:34:01 AM · #13

Originally posted by briantammy:

What good is a vote alone anyway. That wouldn't help me. It just tells me where i stand in relation to others.

I think a vote alone speaks volumes (at least to me it does). Yes, it tells me exactly 'where I stand in relation to others' - isn't that the purpose of a contest?!? This is called a "challenge" site for a reason - it's a series of contests that helps photographers improve (at least that's how I view it). If it was intended to be a review site, then I think it would have been organized differently.

Again, just my 2 cents...

Message edited by author 2005-09-23 00:35:32.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

09/23/2005 12:38:13 AM · #14

Originally posted by SJCarter:

As far as the "baghead" comments go, I have no problem with people concealing their identity until the challenge is over. And although I don't use this feature, I have frequently received PMs during a challenge regarding the comment that I have just left on an entry. That can certainly be counterproductive IMHO, but I just choose to ignore them. By offering the baghead option, this "annoyance" is minimized. People are still able to respond to comments after the challenge is over; but by that time if they (or I) have 10 comments that say the same thing, they are (or I am) less likely to fire back a response to the feedback I didn't agree with or care for. I think this is a good thing - certainly from a commenter's perspective.

I agree with this but this could still work with bags. You are a great commenter btw, and you have my respect.

taterbug

Nikon D300

09/23/2005 12:39:31 AM · #15

I'd rather get comments that people felt inspired enough to voluntarily leave, good or bad, as opposed to a bunch of comments that I know people left because they 'have' to say something. I would really have little faith that the comments were at all honest or meaningful.

Also, if you have say, 5 to 10 comments saying a lot of the same things, do you really need 50 to 100 more saying the same thing?

OdysseyF22

Panasonic DC-G9

Olympus 12-45mm f/4.0 Pro

09/23/2005 12:40:47 AM · #16

No way! I'm sorry to say, but there are some photos where I just don't have anything meaningful to say. IMO, I'd rather make any number of meaningful comments than have to just say something about them all in order to vote. It would totally defeat the purpose of having comments, and would probably scare many people away, which would defeat the purpose of the entire site.

Artyste

Sony Ericsson W810i

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Pentax

09/23/2005 12:42:13 AM · #17

Originally posted by bear_music:

You mean it's not that already? ;)

09/23/2005 12:43:06 AM · #18

Originally posted by SJCarter:

Originally posted by briantammy:
What good is a vote alone anyway. That wouldn't help me. It just tells me where i stand in relation to others.

I think a vote alone speaks volumes (at least to me it does). Yes, it tells me exactly 'where I stand in relation to others' - isn't that the purpose of a contest?!? This is called a "challenge" site for a reason - it's a series of contests that helps photographers improve (at least that's how I view it). If it was intended to be a review site, then I think it would have been organized differently.

Again, just my 2 cents...

I disagree (respectfully, of course). a "vote alone" would make this purely a contest. a vote with comments would be a contest with learning and improvement.

brian

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

09/23/2005 12:53:23 AM · #19

Originally posted by chiqui74:

If I gave someone a one I would be sure that I felt it deserved it and would like to explain myself. If I receive a 1 I would EXPECT a comment not a 'hit and run'.

thanks for your comment on this though.

brian

SJCarter

Canon EOS-7D

09/23/2005 01:07:42 AM · #20

Originally posted by briantammy:

Originally posted by SJCarter:

Originally posted by briantammy:
What good is a vote alone anyway. That wouldn't help me. It just tells me where i stand in relation to others.

I think a vote alone speaks volumes (at least to me it does). Yes, it tells me exactly 'where I stand in relation to others' - isn't that the purpose of a contest?!? This is called a "challenge" site for a reason - it's a series of contests that helps photographers improve (at least that's how I view it). If it was intended to be a review site, then I think it would have been organized differently.

Again, just my 2 cents...

I disagree (respectfully, of course). a "vote alone" would make this purely a contest. a vote with comments would be a contest with learning and improvement.

brian

But don't you learn from a contest? (Although I realize that we're probably both splitting hairs here...) Yes, this is a site whereby scores assigned by voters decide the hierarchy of photographic skill/talent - at least on that particular day. But yes, this also is a site whereby we have the opportunity (but are not required) to provide (hopefully constructive) feedback on challenge entries. This type of feedback can of course be extremely beneficial to all parties, but is not a prerequisite of membership to the site. Based on the TOS, I see this much more as a perk than an expectation as a member of this site. Granted, it is a perk that I have come to rely upon and expect a lot from - not only as a recipient of critiques, but as a provider of feedback as well.

I think we're probably trying to encourage and validate the same thing - we're just approaching it from different perspectives. :-)

EDIT: Grammar

Message edited by author 2005-09-23 01:08:34.

09/23/2005 01:22:32 AM · #21

Originally posted by SJCarter:

I think we're probably trying to encourage and validate the same thing - we're just approaching it from different perspectives. :-)

EDIT: Grammar

Yes, I agree. I am just looking for a way to make things a little less divisive and more prone to honesty. I don't care how it happens.

I'm going to go through and check out some of the differences between commenters average and total average, see if that sheds any light.
thanks.

brian

Ivo

09/23/2005 01:23:16 AM · #22

How about this??? MUST PAY TO PLAY.