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09/20/2005 08:30:35 AM · #26 |
Well, here's how I did It (and remember, you asked so no whining about the answer)...
A friend and I partnered in a porn website, pornosha.com. Now are g/f̢۪s were not very happy about this, but they tolerated it. Like many women, they assumed we were insane, sex-crazed guys who were only out to get "some". What they failed to recognize is that we had ulterior motives (you do too. Yours is probably becoming a good photographer who wants to be in high demand so he can charge and arm and a leg for sessions and thereby afford the kind of lifestyle his g/f would dig. Our motives were more humble - we wanted to pay the rent and buy smokes).
Suspicions and jealousies continued to mount. Finally something had to be done. What we did was invite our s.o.'s to come to a session and help us as photo assistants (this had the side benefit of making the model feel more secure - she felt she had gender allies and was not just surrounded by horndogs).
By the end of the session, our girlfriends had turned from assistants to directors. We followed their "creative input" and let them guide the motions and posing.
The only unfortunate side to this is that the women discovered the real secret of porn shooting - it's more funny than fun. There were no debaucheries and sex weirdness. There were only 5 people - one of who was nekkid - in a silly situation continually cracking stupid jokes and one model desperately trying to then keep a straight face when the camera clicked.
Ultimately the site failed, but that was because we were lousy businessmen not because the girls put the kibosh to it. To this day my g/f knows that any nude shooting will be silly and not threatening. She also has a standing invite to come to any shoots and give input.
Hence, you may find that if you involve your g/f in the shoots as an assistant she may discover that it's not all about the evening̢۪s p***y but rather all about the future̢۪s Benjies.
Good luck.
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09/20/2005 08:55:29 AM · #27 |
hhhmmmm....
akiwi had some good advice in my opinion....I have to say though people that have jealousy issues have deeper issues. I'm not the jealous type....I always figured....if I have to be jealous then it's time for me to leave.
I would say invite your girlfriend (when she comes back) or have someone with you during the shoot....I would say more for protection...against possible lawsuits and keep your GF happy.
If your girlfriend is young...that may have a lot to do with it...it just depends on how she handles herself....if it's just normal, young girly stuff she'll grow out of it....if it's a glaring issue and there are red flags lighting up.....you need to take a bigger look at this....because it won't get better only worse (like Bear said)
Someone mentioned complimenting your GF a lot to help her with her confidence...but my opinion is the opposite...yes it's nice to receive compliments (and as a gentleman/BF it's a nice gesture) but to have to 'depend' on a man's acceptance to feel good.....well......that's not a good sign. There are some deeper issues at hand...and believe me that is some baggage you don't won't to have to sift through.
If your choosing photography as a career:
My opinion would be....if your shooting photos of other women nude....definitely have an assistant .... again for legal issues and to help keep your GF at ease.
Taking portraits in general.....probably still a good idea to have an assistant...again for legal issues and it would probably make the GF feel better.
Just my $ .02....but I'm 37 so I may be a little more laid back.
Good luck! :)
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09/20/2005 08:56:48 AM · #28 |
the problem here is plain to me.
You would rather discuss your relationship with a bunch of strangers than with your love.
It isn't a jealously problem, it is a communication problem.
Right now she probably feels like you are going behind her back, because you are not sharing your hobby with her. Shes knows youre doing *something* but she doesn't know what that *something* is. If you want her to be okay with it, you have to make sure she is involved in it, because she isn't psychic. Tell her who you are shooting, what they look like, show her the photos, ask her which ones she likes, ask her which ones she would trash and why, let her say the models tummy is sticking out in that photo or i can see her nostrel hair in this one.
All she is seeing right now is a finished product of "perfect girls" and that you are having fun doing something with them - and she is being left out. By leaving her out, it would appear you are doing something behind her back.
I don't know if i would show her this post or not. On the one hand, by posting here and not talking to her, you have "gone behind her back" again. On the otherhand, maybe this could be the icebreaker that gets that communication ball that you have lost rolling again. |
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09/20/2005 09:15:28 AM · #29 |
know your situation all too well...my wife has a best friend who she has always questioned if I'm attracted to or not...(not by the way) but that friends sister's husband is in jail so she wanted photos done for him. Nothing to bad since they would most likely be seen by others. Well she asked my wife to do them using my photo lights and stuff-all cool.
My wife doesn't belive she has the talent to do it so asked me to, no problem. We started the shoot with my wife, her best friend and her best friend's sister. My wife was all about directing it, telling her what to wear and how to pose. Nothing too revealing...heck my 14 year old daughter and her best friend came in to watch and we were even later joined by some other friends (male and female) so it was certainly PG-13 at least.
Got some really good shots that she liked too, but when we went to bed that night my wife kept asking, if she turned me on, if I wanted her, etc etc. I finally had to tell her to chill the heck out, that I can act as a gentleman and photograph women without losing all my brains and desiring them. I told her that if she ever wants me to do anything with my photography that I'm probably gonna have to photograph women and that she can trust me to act correctly. I know she still has issues with is since later when I was touching up those images she asked why I was looking at them and if I did so often.
Just something she is going to have to deal with and I will have to help by reminding her that I am here for her only.
Good luck man
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09/20/2005 09:34:01 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by mpemberton:
My two bits.....
If you are going to lead a life to please others; to make them happy, then you will end up miserable at some point. The reason being: If someone requires you to make them happy, then their happiness is derived from an external source like the high one gets from drugs. After a while they expect more and more things to be done in order for them to be happy. Mean while, you are trying to do more things to make them happy, and losing yourself. Eventually, they will use that against you. There are three outcomes:
1. It will be the, "If you do that I will not be very happy about it" statement. It eventually leads to a very ugly situation called "emotional blackmail", and is very damaging.
2. No matter what you do it will not make them happy and in many cases the other or both become angry about it which can lead to open hostility plus the possibility of substance abuse to get that high in life (alcohol being one of the substances of choice).
3. The other will just believe you are inadequate and since they are dependency personalities they will seek others to fill where you no longer seem able to.
It is better to do what you like and be with others who enjoy the experience with you. We all need things that fill us up with life, but the happiness must be from within us, not around us. |
I agree with some of your thoughts here, and I don't usually even enter these types of forum discussions...but had something I want to say as well.
Our culture has become (in my OPINION) too centered on doing what makes US happy. Yes, I am responsible for my own life and what I get out of it - however, there is a lot to be said for doing something (or not doing something) to provide someone else with some good feelings, or happiness. I'm not talking about simply little details like sending flowers, a card, or nice comments. I'm talking about something that IS a real sacrifice for you. And doing so without keeping score, holding it over their heads, or building resentment. I've been married for 25 years. It's been really really hard at many points, but I've learned a lot about the benefits of LOVING sacrifices for your significant other, children, friends, and family. So that's my .02.
I will say that in this particular instance, it truly does not appear that the girl friend has anything to be concerned about. I'm surely not saying that giving up doing photography or the portraits is the answer here. I'm just responding more to the broad statement about living your life just to make someone else happy. I agree that "living your life" that way is not healthy. I'm not arguing that point or post at all....it's just that it was that post which lead to my thoughts which I also wanted to share. |
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09/20/2005 09:42:50 AM · #31 |
I haven't read most of the responses here, but I wanted to add two points.
1) By inviting beautiful girls in your house when nobody's around you could be putting yourself into a situation that you might not want to get into.
2) If you love this girl, you will do what it takes to assure of that. I'd gouge out my eyes and never take another photograph for my wife...that being said, she hasn't asked me to do that quite yet. |
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09/20/2005 09:44:18 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by jpochard:
I agree with some of your thoughts here, and I don't usually even enter these types of forum discussions...but had something I want to say as well.
Our culture has become (in my OPINION) too centered on doing what makes US happy. Yes, I am responsible for my own life and what I get out of it - however, there is a lot to be said for doing something (or not doing something) to provide someone else with some good feelings, or happiness. I'm not talking about simply little details like sending flowers, a card, or nice comments. I'm talking about something that IS a real sacrifice for you. And doing so without keeping score, holding it over their heads, or building resentment. I've been married for 25 years. It's been really really hard at many points, but I've learned a lot about the benefits of LOVING sacrifices for your significant other, children, friends, and family. So that's my .02.
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Well said! :) Finding that happy medium isn't always easy, but definitely worth it :)
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09/20/2005 09:50:31 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by jellyoooo:
Well.. i thought this is the best place to ask something like my story... and this is what happned: |
You've got quite a bit of talent. And it doesn't look like you were shooting porn. So this is going to bring you to a tough decision. You guys are just g/f&b/f and not husband and wife. So there is not a life-long commitment yet. So this is WHEN to hash this out - do so before the marriage.
One thought, might be to involve her more in the photography. Whether it's helping with lighting, posing the models, perhaps in charge of wardrobe, etc or even doing some of the shooting. Perhaps this will diminish her fears.
Maybe shoot some "male portfolio" shots as well. This might alay a fear that you are just "looking for a new hot girl".
Re-affirm (if you truly are inclined to her) that you want her and not another woman.
If after all this there is no understanding, you will have to decide which you want to give up. Note, if there is no understanding in this there may or may not be understanding in other areas. |
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09/20/2005 10:19:21 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by jpochard:
Our culture has become (in my OPINION) too centered on doing what makes US happy. Yes, I am responsible for my own life and what I get out of it - however, there is a lot to be said for doing something (or not doing something) to provide someone else with some good feelings, or happiness. I'm not talking about simply little details like sending flowers, a card, or nice comments. I'm talking about something that IS a real sacrifice for you. And doing so without keeping score, holding it over their heads, or building resentment. I've been married for 25 years. It's been really really hard at many points, but I've learned a lot about the benefits of LOVING sacrifices for your significant other, children, friends, and family. So that's my .02.
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Interesting point on LOVING sacrafices.
I would say our society has come to expect something for what should be selfless acts. If a selfless act requires repayment in mind, behaviour or deed then it becomes a sacrafice when there is no responce to it. When someone expects another to respond to their request, out of love, then it is using love to manipulate the situation. I can think of no ethical system that condones this. |
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09/20/2005 10:42:09 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by jellyoooo:
the big question: how do you explain its simple photography "without nothing in the air"
i hope some of you have experience the same thing as i did... |
i lost my girlfriend over this very issue on this very website...when long distance is involved, trust is very hard to win and very easy to lose...i wish you better luck than i had |
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09/20/2005 10:46:28 AM · #36 |
I agree about using love to basically "blackmail" a person to make a sacrifice. The old "If you really love me you'll...." is not what I meant at all.
The kind of scacrifice I meant is one of giving, as a gift, without expectations or demands. Of course, I suppose there is always someplace in your heart where you do expect something in return...even if it's just a healthy relationship. When the "giving" becomes overwhelmingly one-sided it will take it's toll on the relationship.
I am a very independent assertive person who seldom does anything that I don't want to do. If I do it, that means I've made the conscious decision to do it. I becomes MY decision, MY responsibility, and MY understanding that it's the right thing to do...even if it is a sacrifice. I hope that makes sense. I'm done now. :) |
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09/20/2005 11:58:13 AM · #37 |
Look cat, I completly understand this. This is one of the big reason why my last realtionship failed. Yes, we were in high school and that played a big role but I still understand. I suggest talking to her about it, and let her get all of her feelings out. If you can't be real with this then your realtionship is just fluff. I think this is something that all male photographers go through and I'm very glad you brought it up.
there is no easy anwser to this other than think of your future and ask yourself what you value more, your art or your gf?
for me I had to go with my art...and I don't regret it at all |
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09/20/2005 12:11:13 PM · #38 |
The trick is to make your girlfriend KNOW that she's a million times more important then your work. That doesn't mean stop and it doesn't mean lie about it. It may be just changing the way that you treat your girl on a day to day basis. Make sure she knows that she is your world. That might be all it takes.
For example, I wouldn't mind if my husband photographed women without me being there and that's because I trust him. I'm all he needs and he shows me that everyday. That's all I need. He can do whatever he wants with whomever he wants...it doesn't bug me because I know he wouldn't lie to me.
If you think that you do treat her as well as you can then that's a separate issue. It may just be that she's not in a place mentally, where she's mature enough to be in a grown up, jealousy-free relationship, in which case you'll have to decide if that's something your willing to wait for.
Your work is just that, work. As long as you're not effing any of these other girls...then there's nothing for her to worry about.
Make sense? |
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09/20/2005 06:06:42 PM · #39 |
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09/20/2005 07:47:27 PM · #40 |
Hey guys, this is 'H', the girlfriend that all of you guys are talking about. First of all i am not a jealous type, but if any of you have been in a long distance relationship then you will appreciate how hard it can be. I know that my boyfriend loves photography, i also know that he loves me and that i love him. I do support him, sometimes its just hard because i know that other girls are spending time with him when i just wish that i was the one with him. I dont want him to stop with these pictures, i accept it, i trust him and i know he is really great. But i cant help it if i feel a little bit jealous sometimes, its just called being a human being (or maybe a girl!).
I know when we are together again that i will want to be involved in this photography and i will support him as much as i can because i will be there!
By the way, some of you guys are pretty harsh, you dont even know me! |
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09/20/2005 07:53:44 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by haley:
Hey guys, this is 'H', the girlfriend that all of you guys are talking about. First of all i am not a jealous type, but if any of you have been in a long distance relationship then you will appreciate how hard it can be. I know that my boyfriend loves photography, i also know that he loves me and that i love him. I do support him, sometimes its just hard because i know that other girls are spending time with him when i just wish that i was the one with him. I dont want him to stop with these pictures, i accept it, i trust him and i know he is really great. But i cant help it if i feel a little bit jealous sometimes, its just called being a human being (or maybe a girl!).
I know when we are together again that i will want to be involved in this photography and i will support him as much as i can because i will be there!
By the way, some of you guys are pretty harsh, you dont even know me! |
Good for you Haley, I'm glad you are being fair to his likes and that you trust him, I'm sure you can. Glad you accept it for what it really is. Good Luck to both of you.
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09/23/2005 12:41:19 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by haley:
Hey guys, this is 'H', the girlfriend that all of you guys are talking about. First of all i am not a jealous type, but if any of you have been in a long distance relationship then you will appreciate how hard it can be. I know that my boyfriend loves photography, i also know that he loves me and that i love him. I do support him, sometimes its just hard because i know that other girls are spending time with him when i just wish that i was the one with him. I dont want him to stop with these pictures, i accept it, i trust him and i know he is really great. But i cant help it if i feel a little bit jealous sometimes, its just called being a human being (or maybe a girl!).
I know when we are together again that i will want to be involved in this photography and i will support him as much as i can because i will be there!
By the way, some of you guys are pretty harsh, you dont even know me! |
I needed you to talk to MY girlfriend about a month ago. She wasn't near as understanding as you. |
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