Only one Solution to the Rules problem

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/05/2003 05:48:41 PM · #76

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I would like to start a new thread with a proposal on some rules changes to get feedback based on what I have learned from these threads. I believe that we could possibly make something happen.... Would anyone be interested in seeing a revision to my original rules update post?

Yes! I'd love to see this move on to a new phase.

OSS, I have to echo what Karmat said - I started in the anti-change camp, I'm on the fence (open to discussion on types of changes) and would like to see things move ahead on that front. With the unfortunate side effect that I had to wade through about 50% of the posts that veered way off topic, or rehashed the same arguements over and over, this discussion, IMO, has been very productive.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

06/05/2003 05:50:06 PM · #77

Originally posted by karmat:

So, now we are discussing how to dicuss our discussion! :-)

I feel like I'm back in the 70's ... but a lot of people really don't know how to interact intellectually in a group setting (see C-Span for examples) and need guidance.
Besides, the alternative is oligarchy where we can just shut up and follow the rules we're given. I hate to quote without attribution, but I can't remember who said "Democracy is the worst form of government ... except for all the others."

06/05/2003 05:50:49 PM · #78

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Keeping it on target may be difficult. I think what I would like to do is start a thread that discusses one single rule change at a time...

I disagree. With such fundamental changes to the challenge, it makes more sense to discuss the changes in context.

-Terry

i believe it would be too difficult to try to track conversation/debate on multiple changes in a single thread.

Lets have a poll! ;-)

06/05/2003 05:56:56 PM · #79

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

I still don't think it makes sense to discuss pieces of any potential changes out of context. Keep in mind that with the last major rule revision, a draft of the entire challenge rules page was posted at once, and the discussion worked just fine.

-Terry

Something to consider: Some of us might agree with some rule changes, but disagree with others. Taking the kind of stepping stone approach (I think) John's suggesting might keep the process more orderly and on target, but also might allow us to reach a point beyond which it appears a majority aren't ready to change, and could avoid wasting time (so to speak - I'm not on the "this is a waste of time" side) with the more "extreme" suggestions (if there are any).

Message edited by author 2003-06-05 17:59:49.

06/05/2003 05:59:01 PM · #80

Originally posted by GeneralE:

I hate to quote without attribution, but I can't remember who said "Democracy is the worst form of government ... except for all the others."

Far as I recall (this'll probably start a whole other arguement!), it was Benjamin Franklin.

dwoolridge

06/05/2003 06:25:58 PM · #81

Originally posted by ScottK:

Originally posted by GeneralE:
I hate to quote without attribution, but I can't remember who said "Democracy is the worst form of government ... except for all the others."

Far as I recall (this'll probably start a whole other arguement!), it was Benjamin Franklin.

There's no argument. It was Churchill.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/05/2003 06:50:42 PM · #82

Guess I shoulda done a search first. Oh, well, I stand corrected. There's another Franklin quote I was thinking of. Went something like: when coming out of the Constitutional Convention, a woman asked "What kind of government have you given us", to which Franklin replied "A Republic, if you can keep it." Not quite relevant, but...

Hey, you're right, no arguement! What did we do wrong???

Message edited by author 2003-06-05 18:51:10.

Fiver

Canon EOS-5D

06/05/2003 07:10:00 PM · #83

This is getting boring guys. When are you going to bring out the guns and shoot each other. Or if you can't afford a gun, you can use kitchen knifes.

Fiver =o)

magnetic9999

Canon EOS-20D

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

06/05/2003 07:18:50 PM · #84

All of mine are dirty. I guess I'll have to use paper clips. Boy that could take a while :)

Originally posted by Fiver:

This is getting boring guys. When are you going to bring out the guns and shoot each other. Or if you can't afford a gun, you can use kitchen knifes.

Fiver =o)

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM

06/05/2003 09:07:14 PM · #85

Readers of this thread have been redirected here to reply.

-Terry

ruthiek

Canon PowerShot G3

06/05/2003 09:39:51 PM · #86

Question: Ultimately, how would a rules change be determined?

By vote?

By the . . . uh . . . is it called "The Board" (the people who started this site and devote hours to running it efficiently)?

I sense that the people who will make the ultimate decision are getting input through this discussion and will ultimately make the decision based on how they think everyone else feels, but that's kind of just a guess.

Could someone clarify how the ultimate decision will be made?

Thanks!

Refracted

Canon EOS-50D

06/06/2003 12:30:57 AM · #87

one thing i wanted to mention to anyone who thinks someone can go "too far" with dodging and burning.. just look at this photo:

ok.. this is currently DPC legal.. hue modifications, some noise.. I find this to be very bad digital art, yet it's technically acceptable within the rules. Id expect a score of about 1.5 in a challenge with this.

With dodging and burning, i dont even think we can mess up a picture this much. We can go too far with any tool we're given, but it's been shown that we dont usually score "extremes" very well here, and overdoing dodging and burning would definatly not be beneficial.

dodging and burning cant really make our photos any worse than what we can already do to them, but they can definatly help us make them just that much better, if we know how to use it. (just like hue modifications can be usefull if used properly)

just my 2 cents on why i dont see anything wrong with adding a few more tools to our arsenal.

jerrft

Konica Minolta DiMAGE Z3

06/06/2003 01:08:52 AM · #88

Originally posted by Refracted:

dodging and burning cant really make our photos any worse than what we can already do to them, but they can definatly help us make them just that much better, if we know how to use it. (just like hue modifications can be usefull if used properly)

Not to repeat myself from another thread, but I will. :)
I find dodge and burn to be a great tool. In non-DPC photos, I have used it to add depth and contrast. Although not the method of choice, dodge and burn can also be used more creatively to add and remove features. Some small features such as catch-lights and redeye. Some larger features such as telephone wires, foliage, and people. Nothing that the casual critic would notice. If DPC allows dodge and burn, I imagine that I'll do all the above and more. However, before we allow this form of spot editing, I would rather see all restrictions lifted.