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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Border inside photo
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 51, (reverse)
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 06/03/2003 03:29:51 PM · #26
The stuff outside the white line on his picture is not artwork? It came from a camera. The stuff outside the line is most definite either a) artwork or b) a photograph.

*shrug*

M
 06/03/2003 03:30:34 PM · #27
Originally posted by mavrik:
The stuff outside the white line on his picture is not artwork? It came from a camera. The stuff outside the line is most definite either a) artwork or b) a photograph.

*shrug*

M


The white line is the border. The stuff outside is not part of the border. There is no requirement that the border touch the edge.

-Terry
 06/03/2003 03:43:14 PM · #28
Originally posted by mavrik:
The stuff outside the white line on his picture is not artwork? It came from a camera. The stuff outside the line is most definite either a) artwork or b) a photograph.

*shrug*


I'll quote from the admin, further above: "Artwork is specifically prohibited within the border rule to prevent ..." There is no artwork WITHIN the border. The border is a tiny thin line that happens not to contact the outer edge of the image all the way around. It's like if you take a poster, cut out a rectangular construction-paper mask that's half an inch across all the way around, and lay it down on the poster. That's the same, unedited poster showing AROUND the border. There is no artwork WITHIN the border itself unless you, for example, put stickers on the construction paper.
 06/03/2003 04:20:28 PM · #29
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Abuse of the border rule to spot-edit a photograph will result in disqualification.

That was my only worry about this style of border. I'm glad it's been cleared up and I'm glad nobody has to get DQ'ed over it.
 06/03/2003 04:39:07 PM · #30
If the lines are within the bounds of the picture, are they really a border? I always thought a border was around the EDGE of something. My 2c.
//dictionary.reference.com/search?q=border
 06/03/2003 04:48:20 PM · #31
Originally posted by bod:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Abuse of the border rule to spot-edit a photograph will result in disqualification.

That was my only worry about this style of border. I'm glad it's been cleared up and I'm glad nobody has to get DQ'ed over it.


So then, as long as they didn't do the inside border thing to hide a flaw in the picture it is a-okay to do?

How does one apply this tiny little line inside of the outside edge of the part that is no longer a border because now we have a border somewhere within the picture that does not touch the outside edge?

Can one of you do a tutorial on this process in Photo shop? I like the effect and want to do it too.

Seriously!
 06/03/2003 04:55:21 PM · #32
Originally posted by autool:
How does one apply this tiny little line inside of the outside edge of the part that is no longer a border because now we have a border somewhere within the picture that does not touch the outside edge?

Can one of you do a tutorial on this process in Photo shop? I like the effect and want to do it too.

Seriously!


It's as simple as making a selection, right-clicking on the selection, and selecting 'Stroke'. By default, it will use the foreground colour for the inside border-like line thing :)
 06/03/2003 05:06:27 PM · #33
Originally posted by autool:
Originally posted by bod:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Abuse of the border rule to spot-edit a photograph will result in disqualification.

That was my only worry about this style of border. I'm glad it's been cleared up and I'm glad nobody has to get DQ'ed over it.


So then, as long as they didn't do the inside border thing to hide a flaw in the picture it is a-okay to do?

When this thread first appeared I started trying to think of ways to abuse this border style to apply some cool effect to a shot (sorta like, 'hey 95% of my shot is the border' or something). That's more the sort of thing I'm bothered about.
Unfortunately my PS skills don't stretch that far, but I'm sure somebody can (and would have) come up with something.
 06/03/2003 06:34:56 PM · #34
Back when we were discussing the border rule change, I did some experiments to see what could be achieved using completely DPC-legal means. The earlier photos in the gallery show the process step by step.
Rotation Experiment

But I wonder a little about the explanation as stated, since some borders, like the vignette I used on these Blue Roses, are clearly used to cover undesirable elements.
 06/03/2003 07:26:06 PM · #35
Dictionary.com:

Border (n.)

1. A part that forms the outer edge of something.

2. A decorative strip around the edge of something, such as fabric.

3. A strip of ground, as at the edge of a garden or walk, in which ornamental plants or shrubs are planted.

The requirement that a border touch the edge isn't a dpc requirement, it's an English language one. lol

I guess the simple argument boils down to two readings of the rules.

1) No selection tool, however you may have a border (as in image/canvas size)
2) No selection tool during editing. Other rule - you may add a border any way you like.

*Spot-Editing: Absolutely no spot-editing is allowed. The use of any type of selection tool is prohibited except to select a non-feathered, non-anti-aliased rectangular area for cropping.

*Borders: Your submission may include a border, but the border may not contain any text, clip art, photographs, or other artwork.

Yes, they are in two places, but they are both under Post Shot Adjustments - one part of post shot adjustments says no selection tool. Another says you may add borders. They are logically consistent if we allow borders WITHOUT selection tool. They are INCONSISTENT under the current reading of the rules.

Oh, isn't this thread long enough and important enough by now for D or L to stop by and clear it up once and for all? I'll listen to them either way, but the way the rules currently read there are two accurate interpretations.


06/03/2003 07:43:29 PM · #36
Radical suggestion: let's go back to NO borders at all.
 06/03/2003 07:45:57 PM · #37
Semi-radical suggestion: no restrictions on editing.
 06/03/2003 07:57:08 PM · #38
No restrictions on editing turns dpc into devart or something, where we're not doing photography, we're doing "digital art." I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's not why I'm here, at least.
 06/03/2003 08:25:44 PM · #39
We've revised the border rule no less than five times to accommodate the constant controversy. In our last revision of the border rule, our goal was simple: cut out the controversy, use some common sense, and everyone should be happy. I can understand the confusion. Quite frankly, we could probably find holes in the rules all day long, but what we've come to realize in our year+ running this site is that we just have to try to use some common sense and take these things with a grain of salt.

The reason we added the clause, "the border may not contain any text, clip art, photographs, or other artwork" was to try to stop people from using the border clause to do something to their photograph that was clearly not a border. We also understand that borders may or may not be made with a selection tool, but the point is that we're trying to allow borders -- the means by which you make them isn't so important to us.

That said, I very much believe that this photographer had no intentions of pushing or breaking the rules. If your little sister came up to you and said "what's that white line?" ... you'd say "oh, that's a border." It's a border, and it happens to look very nice on this photograph (in my opinion).

As with any other disqualification request, this photograph would not be disqualified without a majority vote from the site council. Additionally, since I believe wording and intention may be conflicting here, I'd have a very hard time disqualifying someone for that confusion. I will also submit that anyone who believes this photograph is not within the challenge rules did have the opportunity to request it for disqualification during voting.

What's my conclusion here? Relax a little, and don't get too caught up in the wording of the rules. Without picking them apart too much, each of the challenge rules does generally have a pretty clear intent, and we're much more worried about that than anything else.

Sorry for the delayed reply. I'm a busy boy these days :(

Drew

Message edited by author 2003-06-03 20:28:19.
 06/03/2003 08:33:43 PM · #40
thats not why I am here either....I like to look at the purty pitchers.
Since, by definition, a border extends to the edge and forms the outer edge of something AND, by the rules of borders, a border may not include photographs,(etc), it seems to me the pretty picture with the inovative border would not be a legal entry. I will, in my mind, ignore the offending border, enjoy the great photo and patiently await the ruling of the powers that be. Actually, we have a much more serious border problem needing attention, don't you agree?

EDIT
Never Mind.....Well done Drew

Message edited by author 2003-06-03 20:37:17.
 06/03/2003 10:44:59 PM · #41
Thanks Drew.

The garden analogy is actually more supportive of the technique used on the image in question -- in a flowerbed the plants often run around the edge without actually butting up against the next plot or the walkway.

Also, think about an image (like I've been doing" with one thin line, surrounded by a somewhat thicker border. That thin line doesn't touch the edge ... does that make it either spot-editing or not a border?

I don't worry (much) about how someone made the image or border, but rather how well they did it ....
 06/07/2003 04:11:18 PM · #42
To be honest, this sites interpretation of rules is pretty messed up. I commend Luis for having the balls to add that white line. I wouldn't have risked the DQ.
 06/07/2003 07:56:18 PM · #43
What's this? new war
 06/07/2003 10:31:42 PM · #44
I have a question... for borders like his using this technique, does the blending mode still have to be "normal"? Someone mentioned that since it's a border, some of the other rules don't apply.
 06/08/2003 01:54:59 AM · #45
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
I have a question... for borders like his using this technique, does the blending mode still have to be "normal"? Someone mentioned that since it's a border, some of the other rules don't apply.

My OPINION:
I think the blending mode should still be normal. The "DPC-way" to make this would not involve layers anyway.

If you apply a stroke, you can set the opacity of the stroke color to <100% to get a partially transparent effect, but if you don't like the result you will have to Undo and try again.
 11/09/2004 07:15:00 PM · #46
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
A couple things worth noting:

The border rule and the image editing rule are separate and distinct line items. Some things that are illegal to do to your photograph are legal to do to create your border (for example, use of a selection tool, filter or action to create a drop shadow). Artwork is specifically prohibited within the border rule to prevent people from abusing the rule to, among other things, include multile photographs (a triptych where two images are part of the border) or to include logos. Text is prohibited to help maintain the anonymous spirit of the challenge.

At the time that we wrote the border rule, we considered including language that required the border must fully contact the outer edges. Ultimately, that wording was rejected.

An admin note is only added to a photograph after the photographer has provided the administrators with an unaltered original and the steps taken to produce the final image. If they cannot duplicate the result, the image is not considered proven and can not receive a note. There have been cases where a photograph was disqualified for a different issue than what we requested proof for; when we review a DQ request all aspects of the submission are considered.

Abuse of the border rule to spot-edit a photograph will result in disqualification.

-Terry

Note: This post has been reviewed by an administrator and represents an official position of DPChallenge.


In one of my submissions under basic editing, I have made a selection inside the photo, reversed the selection, used gaussian blur on the selection, added a 1 pixel border between the blurred border and the photo. Am I going to be DQ'd? No part of the subject is in the blurred bordered area-- only the white background. And, how do I get an official word on that before the deadline?
 11/09/2004 07:36:52 PM · #47
I know this is an old thread -- but we're told not to start a new one if there's already a thread on the subject -- and I need an answer :)please...
 11/09/2004 07:46:43 PM · #48
Under the current rules, there is really no restriction on what appears in a border, other than the use of outside artwork (e.g. clip art or other outside image source). My opinion is, you should be OK. I'll direct other SC members to this thread for review as well.
 11/09/2004 07:50:50 PM · #49
Thank you....
 11/09/2004 07:56:35 PM · #50
Originally posted by kirbic:
Under the current rules, there is really no restriction on what appears in a border, other than the use of outside artwork (e.g. clip art or other outside image source). My opinion is, you should be OK. I'll direct other SC members to this thread for review as well.

My opinion is the same (see earlier in the thread), that if it's a "good" border it will help your score and if not it will hurt. I generally like to be inclusive about photos, and let the voters decide.
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