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09/05/2005 02:56:01 PM · #51 |
There are many artist....aren't we all, but there is something else also. Something much more valuable much more elusive much more important. What we see here is not art but self-gratification and self-absorption under the guise of art. How could the the D&L blue ribbon be an art photo? How could anyone actually believe that?
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09/05/2005 02:58:44 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
A five year old child can create a work of art that may only hang on the refrigerator for a month. The fact that it was temporary makes it no less a work of art then something that endures the centuries. Thier are artists who create masterpieces in ice and others who sculp sand at the beach. The sweetist guitars in the world are never recorded and play for an audience of 2. That fact that fame has been sought out and found does not an artist make. |
So according to you anyone is capable of making art, including 5 year old, then what's the point of it? Why do we even care about something that we are all able to do ourselves anyways?
Those who do it in sand and in ice, often have an audience and they don't pass unknown, but I would call street show, rather than art. They do have an audience when they do it and for a few days after and there for they are verry well known. But if you want me to call you artist, I need to see a piece of art made by you. Did it melt? Did the wind blew it away? Bad luck! You are not my artist you may be for those who seen it. Next time pick some more enduring material to work on :) I don't even belive in god without seeing something. |
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09/05/2005 03:05:18 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
There are many artist....aren't we all, but there is something else also. Something much more valuable much more elusive much more important. What we see here is not art but self-gratification and self-absorption under the guise of art. How could the the D&L blue ribbon be an art photo? How could anyone actually believe that? |
careful, you are walking on thin ice here. :)) don't pick on particular images, I done that before and the result is the entire gang of "forum friens" comes and jumps on you head. But since we are at it you are right, that image is ruined exactly by what made it so great for DPC. NEATIMAGE. It looks like a freaking plastic manequine, it has no detail, that beautiful girl oesn't look human anymore, and look what neatimage did to the blue (whatever it is called) that covers her head. To me it looks more like washed out than soft and delicate as I belive it was intended, but that's just me, what do I know?
Message edited by author 2005-09-05 15:08:47. |
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09/05/2005 03:08:51 PM · #54 |
Sorry, I kinda thought the blue ribbon photo was open to discussion? That is should be able to stand 'artist' criticism? Was it not done by an 'artist"? Does it not touch us 'emotionally'? Is it not 'art'?
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09/05/2005 03:14:01 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
Sorry, I kinda thought the blue ribbon photo was open to discussion? That is should be able to stand 'artist' criticism? Was it not done by an 'artist"? Does it not touch us 'emotionally'? Is it not 'art'? |
I thought that too once when I said a blue ribbon image is no more than funny greeting card material, and after alot of blind talk I ended up apologising just so they leave me alone.
Sure it touches me emotionally I feel pity for that beautiful girl wrapped in a plastic bag called neatimage. Poor girl, what did she do to deserve that? |
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09/05/2005 03:17:06 PM · #56 |
With art, you want to look at it and will even go out of your way to look at it.
With snapshots, you are usually forced to look at them by pushy relatives and friends.
:)
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09/05/2005 03:17:35 PM · #57 |
i dunno if this was already said, since i haven't read the whole thread....but I would just like to state that family snapshots can certainly evoke emotion in me, but I don't in any way consider them works of art, because they are just recordings, and nothing more than that.
I suppose art could be made of them given a certain arrangement or something, but alone, they evoke emotion, but are not art.
I don't even think a lot of good photos are art. I would say many photojournalistic images from Katrina are very powerful, but are not art, they are documentary. Sure the photographer may have taken composition and other aesthetic purposes into mind, but the purpose of the images is documentary in nature. I think a lot of images on my site aren't art either...and photos I take for the paper... Some may be pleasing images, but it's different kinds of photography I think.
but what do I know, I've never really taken an art class in my life. |
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09/05/2005 03:17:53 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
There are many artist....aren't we all, but there is something else also. Something much more valuable much more elusive much more important. What we see here is not art but self-gratification and self-absorption under the guise of art. How could the the D&L blue ribbon be an art photo? How could anyone actually believe that? |
So, show us what you believe to be art. Was there any art at all in the D&L challenge? In any other challenge here?
I just want an idea so I know from where you are speaking. I may or may not disagree with you; often I find myself nodding my head, but that is of little importance. Show me what I don't know so I may learn. I may agree or disagree, but it would be a point of view I have not seen before.
d
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09/05/2005 03:24:22 PM · #59 |
I would not be the first to propose that the snapshot - it's history from the introduction of the kodak is in itself a valued body of art in world cultural heritage. Some may not consider or miss the point that photography is a populist art. Images recorded by forgotton names, yet fully valued as art and craft of thier time and our own. (Of course accompanied by an elite, of master craftsmen and artists) Personal recognition is not necessarily a desirable goal for recording important events of our lives, or even for pursuing the craft as many of us do. Unless one has a commercial aspiration. I don't see what has been accomplished at dpc is so far from the idea of the snapshot.... I think we should not worry about being famous, and look to our craft take pride in it, and share the efforts that we can. It is assured that what do here will be remembered and we will all be famous.
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09/05/2005 03:27:13 PM · #60 |
The question concerns the blue ribbon photo. I would not dare criticise any other photo here other than the ribbon photos. I believe in a challenge the first three place photos are open to discussion, whether concerning them or the method of voting that placed them there. The blue ribbon is a study of a photo done many times before. Is it the best photo here creatively or technically? Is that why it 'blued'? The 'neatimage' look here and why it is so popular and successful is another interesting discussion possibility.
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09/05/2005 03:38:55 PM · #61 |
| eww neatimage =nasty plastic. its only ok if u cant tell it was used in my opinion. |
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09/05/2005 03:40:56 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
A five year old child can create a work of art that may only hang on the refrigerator for a month. The fact that it was temporary makes it no less a work of art then something that endures the centuries. Thier are artists who create masterpieces in ice and others who sculp sand at the beach. The sweetist guitars in the world are never recorded and play for an audience of 2. That fact that fame has been sought out and found does not an artist make. |
So according to you anyone is capable of making art, including 5 year old, then what's the point of it? Why do we even care about something that we are all able to do ourselves anyways?
Those who do it in sand and in ice, often have an audience and they don't pass unknown, but I would call street show, rather than art. They do have an audience when they do it and for a few days after and there for they are verry well known. But if you want me to call you artist, I need to see a piece of art made by you. Did it melt? Did the wind blew it away? Bad luck! You are not my artist you may be for those who seen it. Next time pick some more enduring material to work on :) I don't even belive in god without seeing something. |
That's is your problem it seems. Art is subjective, and yes I believe most people are quite capable of producing art, given the right mindset.
I see art all around me every day. The bright yellow wild sunflowers that now bloom enmasse, the reds and oranges of a late summer sunset, a child doing handstands in the park. Art doesn't need an audience. It will forever go on regardless of who sees or who pays attention. And art, as I see it, will never have to prove itself to anyone. It need only need bring out an emotion in me, and if only for a fleeting second in time, give me reason to pause and look closer.
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09/05/2005 03:43:54 PM · #63 |
There are many wonderful photos on this site and excellent photographers. Really the site is to learn, explore and have fun. The concept of a challenge and its inherent competitive nature is interesting in 'art' terms. I personally do not prefer 'winners' and 'losers' when ranking photographs. I find it appalling that anyone could give a photo here a 1,2 or 3! That is just down right mean and stupid! and, if this can be justified, then, the three ribbon photos must also be judged under the same glaring, harsh view.
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09/05/2005 03:45:53 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
I see art all around me every day. The bright yellow wild sunflowers that now bloom enmasse, the reds and oranges of a late summer sunset, a child doing handstands in the park. Art doesn't need an audience. It will forever go on regardless of who sees or who pays attention. And art, as I see it, will never have to prove itself to anyone. It need only need bring out an emotion in me, and if only for a fleeting second in time, give me reason to pause and look closer. |
What you see is beauty and you are lucky to do so.......
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09/05/2005 03:57:03 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
That's is your problem it seems. Art is subjective, and yes I believe most people are quite capable of producing art, given the right mindset.
I see art all around me every day. The bright yellow wild sunflowers that now bloom enmasse, the reds and oranges of a late summer sunset, a child doing handstands in the park. Art doesn't need an audience. It will forever go on regardless of who sees or who pays attention. And art, as I see it, will never have to prove itself to anyone. It need only need bring out an emotion in me, and if only for a fleeting second in time, give me reason to pause and look closer. |
I think this is a cultural issue, I will try to put this so that it doesn't offenses you. I don't intend any offence. Anyways belive it or not, I have 4 years of art school, and even if I don't practice I am a trained art teacher. As I said this is a matter of cultural difference. You live in a country that is verry young and with such am mixture of cultures, that you americans have no other option than to be verry liberal with art. Anything goes as art there, I konw. And you can have hat if you like. If I think about it it can't even be otherwise. But you people have no cultural identity not in fine arts anyways, there are some good stuff in the music tho, like the blues and the jazz, true art.
But when you live in places with cultural backgriunds dating thousands of years, you can't aford to be so liberal about it, you can't let the "McDonalds" culture walk all over your cultural identity just like that. You have to be verry strict about it. It took me alot of study to understand, and it's verry hard to explain in a forum post.
As I said I have a few years of art school but even that did't taught me to be an artist. The only thing you really learn there is how to apreciate and treasure art.
Speaking of blues music in my opinion one of the verry few products of real art America has ever produced, I bet many people can hit strings on a guitar even on this site, but you can't learn to be BB King or John Lee Hooker. With that you are born. This is my point.
Message edited by author 2005-09-05 16:01:58. |
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09/05/2005 04:01:07 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
But when you live in places with cultural backgriunds dating thousands of years, you can't aford to be so liberal about it, you can't let the "McDonalds" culture walk all over your cultural identity just like that. You have to be verry strict about it. It took me alot of study to understand, and it's verry hard to explain in a forum post.
As I said I have a few years of art school but even that did't taught me to be an artist. The only thing you really learn there is how to apreciate and treasure art. |
An appreciation of art and the pursuit of creativity and originality is the path to being an artist. You seem to be on that path.............
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09/05/2005 04:08:36 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
That's is your problem it seems. Art is subjective, and yes I believe most people are quite capable of producing art, given the right mindset.
I see art all around me every day. The bright yellow wild sunflowers that now bloom enmasse, the reds and oranges of a late summer sunset, a child doing handstands in the park. Art doesn't need an audience. It will forever go on regardless of who sees or who pays attention. And art, as I see it, will never have to prove itself to anyone. It need only need bring out an emotion in me, and if only for a fleeting second in time, give me reason to pause and look closer. |
I think this is a cultural issue, I will try to put this so that it doesn't offenses you. I don't intend any offence. Anyways belive it or not, I have 4 years of art school, and even if I don't practice I am a trained art teacher. As I said this is a matter of cultural difference. You live in a country that is verry young and with such am mixture of cultures, that you americans have no other option than to be verry liberal with art. Anything goes as art there, I konw. And you can have hat if you like. If I think about it it can't even be otherwise. But you people have no cultural identity not in fine arts anyways, there are some good stuff in the music tho, like the blues and the jazz, true art.
But when you live in places with cultural backgriunds dating thousands of years, you can't aford to be so liberal about it, you can't let the "McDonalds" culture walk all over your cultural identity just like that. You have to be verry strict about it. It took me alot of study to understand, and it's verry hard to explain in a forum post.
As I said I have a few years of art school but even that did't taught me to be an artist. The only thing you really learn there is how to apreciate and treasure art.
Speaking of blues music in my opinion one of the verry few products of real art America has ever produced, I bet many people can hit strings on a guitar even on this site, but you can't learn to be BB King or John Lee Hooker. With that you are born. This is my point. |
It seems a shame that the centuries have laid such a heavy burden on the mindset of the modern Romanian. Left only to a narrow inturpretion of what is and what is not must be depressing, to say the least. You speak of fame and the durability of that fame as benchmarks, but if you were to ask BB King or John Lee Hooker, they would tell you that some of the best musicians they have ever heard or played with have never sold a record.
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09/05/2005 04:11:07 PM · #68 |
Would you believe they were being modest?
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09/05/2005 04:16:55 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
It seems a shame that the centuries have laid such a heavy burden on the mindset of the modern Romanian. Left only to a narrow inturpretion of what is and what is not must be depressing, to say the least. You speak of fame and the durability of that fame as benchmarks, but if you were to ask BB King or John Lee Hooker, they would tell you that some of the best musicians they have ever heard or played with have never sold a record. |
It's not a shame, it's a honor and a joy, not only modern Romanian but most modern old cultures, and I'm sure the best blues man never sold a record, here you don't contradict me, I said many times above selling and art has nothing to do with eachother, rembrandt died literarly out of starvation. The interpretation of art is not narrow at all but it has to be special, it must be the product of a real talent, else everything on this world can become art, everyone can become an artist and we loose the point of it all. Take it like this, if everyone could jump a trapeze do contorsionism, train dangerous animals, nobody would go to circus anymore. We could all have it at home. It won't even be interesting anymore.
Message edited by author 2005-09-05 16:19:01. |
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09/05/2005 04:21:49 PM · #70 |
I am a big fan of Frank Lloyd Wright, the architect. There was one design of his where he put windows in the corners of the rooms. Corners are wasted area in his opinion. I did a picture with converging lines.........I laid down on railroad tracks with the rails on both sides of me. enlarged it to like 36" x 22" (don't really remember) cut in half. Had to build my own frame. It was amazing. When the pic was at eye level and you stood against one wall it was if you were standing on the rail. all the ties were straight. It came out much better than I had anticipated. Entered it in two different competitions locally. The were rejected from both shows. The reason? It wouldnt fit in the "slot" where the entries were to be stored.
although I loved shows and have placed at least an honorable mention in every show at one time or another, those were my last entrys.
Message edited by author 2005-09-05 16:23:44.
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09/05/2005 04:31:35 PM · #71 |
There is an awful lot of confusion as to what is art. To state that only older cultures can have art or know art is very insulting to these people. Art is everywhere we look, no matter which country we live in, it is in adverts on TV and in museums, in a Macdonalds sign and on the tube.
In fact, one of the most successful pieces of modern art is the London Underground Map!! This has gained world acclaim as a work of art, and a practical map. It is copied worldwide, and even though many have tried, no-one has yet bettered this masterpiece.
Once you have mastered your media, you become an Artist, and what you produce is art in the literal sense of the word. It may not be accepted by everyone, but it is art. Instead of drawing with charcoal or pastels, painting with oils or watercolours...we create with a camera and software. Some of us are good artists, some bad, but some are or will be great artists.
Let's forget the labels and do what we enjoy or feel the need to do, take photos!!
Steve |
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09/05/2005 04:38:28 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by Formerlee:
In fact, one of the most successful pieces of modern art is the London Underground Map!! This has gained world acclaim as a work of art, and a practical map. It is copied worldwide, and even though many have tried, no-one has yet bettered this masterpiece.Steve |
You are saying that the London Underground map is one of the most successful pieces of modern art? It would seem that modern art is indeed in decline, if this is so! Now, is it done with 'neatimage'?
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09/05/2005 04:39:36 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by azoychka:
Originally posted by Formerlee:
In fact, one of the most successful pieces of modern art is the London Underground Map!! This has gained world acclaim as a work of art, and a practical map. It is copied worldwide, and even though many have tried, no-one has yet bettered this masterpiece.Steve |
You are saying that the London Underground map is one of the most successful pieces of modern art? It would seem that modern art is indeed in decline, if this is so! Now, is it done with 'neatimage'? |
Yep, check it out matey! |
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09/05/2005 04:41:07 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by Formerlee:
To state that only older cultures can have art or know art is very insulting to these people. |
I didn't said that, that's not even in the area of what I said but I was sure someone will take it as an insult. It happens every time. |
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09/05/2005 04:43:50 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Originally posted by Formerlee:
To state that only older cultures can have art or know art is very insulting to these people. |
I didn't said that, that's not even in the area of what I said but I was sure someone will take it as an insult. It happens every time. |
Yep, this is the problem when discussing 'ART', it is all things to all people. It cannot be put in little boxes. What one person calls art, another calls crap!
It's a losing battle.
Steve |
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