US soldiers fight to protect USA/Bush

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

08/21/2005 10:58:27 PM · #103

Originally posted by RonB:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Do you really think Jesus would approve of a system where a corporation's primary responsibility is not to its customers, workers, or the public at large, but to investor/shareholders, who contribute nothing to the overall product except capital. Not sweat, not creative ideas, just money.

You didn't ask me, but I feel the need to jump in at this point to say YES, he would - and did. Read the parable of the talents in Matthew 25, Verses 14 thru 30:

For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods... and gnashing of teeth.

Originally posted by GeneralE:
Just about everything about corporate capitalism runs directly contrary to the most basic of Christian precepts. . .

Based on the biblical passage I just quoted, it would appear that this statement is not true.

Isn't it convenient how one can find scripture supporting just about any assertion? Funny, that passage spoke to me as a spiritual metaphor, the "talents" being a symbol of spreading God's word as opposed to a literal embracement of capitalism. After all, it clearly states in the first sentence "For the kingdom of heaven is as a man..." I wonder who wouldn't agree that the Bible is riddled with contradictions? We all hear what we want to hear, and that makes basing government policy on something so subjective as religion a very dangerous practice. If you want to look at it another way, here is an example of the opposite viewpoint:

"I made great works; I built houses and planted vineyards for myself; I made myself gardens and parks, and planted in them all kinds of fruit trees. I made myself pools from which to water the forest of growing trees. I bought male and female slaves, and had slaves who were born in my house; I had also great possessions of herds and flocks, more than any who had been before me in Jerusalem. I also gathered for myself silver and gold and the treasure of kings and provinces; I got singers, both men and women, and many concubines, man's delight. So I became great and surpassed all who were before me in Jerusalem; also my wisdom remained with me. And whatever my eyes desired I did not keep from them; I kept my heart from no pleasure, for my heart found pleasure in all my toil, and this was my reward for all my toil. Then I considered all that my hands had done and the toil I had spent in doing it, and behold, all was vanity and a striving after wind, and there was nothing to be gained under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 2:4-11 RSV)

Here's a favorite of mine: "Better is a poor and wise youth than an old and foolish king, who will no longer take advice" (Ecclesiastes 4:13 RSV)

I have no problem with freeing oppressed peoples and trying to make the world a better place. I do believe there are better ways to go about it, and that the American people can be trusted to handle the truth. What we are attempting is to hold the leaders accountable, and I dare anyone to tell me, that were the tables turned, they would not do the same.

CorySmith

08/21/2005 11:00:43 PM · #104

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

Has Fetor already signed a contract with a military service?

yup

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

08/21/2005 11:07:29 PM · #105

Then I wish you all the best and good health and hope your stay with the military is everything you hope it will be. And thank you for serving and being brave enough to go. I hope the war ends soon.

Originally posted by Fetor:

Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Has Fetor already signed a contract with a military service?

yup

08/22/2005 01:10:52 AM · #106

By muckpond

<<< i'm pretty sure that no one, save the taliban and bin laden, hated us for invading afghanistan. THAT was a justified military action that had a specific purpose and tangible ties to the attack on the U.S. if we had been satisfied to restore democracy to that country and oust the people who had a legitimate shot at hurting us (as was proven on 9/11, the USS Cole, the first Trade Center attacks, etc.) i think world opinion of the united states would be a lot less hated. >>>

I have seen this ridiculous crap posted so many times I finally have to take time and reply to it. Leftists seem to think that real people have real short memories. During the prelude to and the actual attack on the taliban in Afghanistan there were leftists all over the world screaming their heads off in indignation. Among examples of their tiresome brainwashed sloganeering:

Instead of invading somebody else's country, we need to address the ROOT CAUSES of terrorism (guess what, everybody, the root cause of terrorism is terrorists!)

Muslims all over the work will get mad at us because they will perceive an attack on Afghanistan as an attack on Islam

This will be used as a recruiting tool for al-queda (does some of this sound familiar?)

The world's strongest country is bullying one of the world's weakest countries.

Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9-11 (deja vu again!)

How do we KNOW it was bin laden?

And I'm sure a lot of people remember this priceless gem:

If you kill, eliminate, arrest, etc. bin laden, THOUSANDS more will take his place (of course, there always was a supply of thousands of evil, criminally psycotic, hateful, bigoted, parasitic billionaires just waiting patiently in the wings to 'take over' if the 'big o' was removed).

In 1972, Ricard Nixon was re-elected president by the largest popular vote majority ever up to that time. In 1974 you couldn't find anybody who had voted for him.

In 2001, leftists, thug-worshippers, and quislings all over the world were screaming their heads off that the US had no business going after the taliban and bin laden in Afghanistan. Now you can't find ANYBODY who was against this invasion.

MadMordegon

08/22/2005 01:45:28 AM · #107

Originally posted by CalliopeKel:

Well the last thing I have to say in this thread is...

None of it really matters. Because rants and opinions won't change the course of things. The destiny of this planet is already chartered out. It has been since the beginning. Im sure that scares some people.

Let me put it this way. Whatever is going to happen, is going to happen. There are no surprises or curveballs thrown at God.

Destiny Awaits. Regardless of secularlism.

Originally posted by greatandsmall:

Originally posted by CalliopeKel:

Destiny Awaits. Regardless of secularlism.

Maybe so, but I'm going to keep praying...just in case.

And that is the kind of non-thinking that will continue to allow democracy to be flaccid in the US. If you actually believe in god then you believe he gave us free will and won't interfere in human affairs. So why pray to him in matters of human affairs?

A democracy cannot work if the people are not involved in the goings of their government. Unchecked men in power will always end up corrupt.

Religion and superstition should have no place in politics or the governing of people. Thats how it is in the Middle East and they arent fairing to well.

BeeGee

Canon EF 28-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/22/2005 03:40:13 AM · #108

Remember why you voted for Bush? Ever actually thought about it?

Give this "explanation attempt" a chance, it's not mine, by the way, but a LEFTIST Canadian's - guess what, even communists have valid opinions, YOU Christian republicans don't have an exclusive right to the ABSOLUTE truth - remember why you got out of Vietnam after all? Because some relatively smart people in DC saw that the war was going nowhere but the morgue:

The Final Word

Succinct Summary of the 2004 Presidential Election
(From the psych-humor listserv; a Canadian's perspective):

The Democrats' mistake was in thinking that a disastrous war, national bankruptcy, erosion of liberties, corporate takeover of government, environmental destruction, squandering our economic and moral leadership in the world, and systematic Administration lying would be of concern to the electorate.

The Republicans correctly saw that the chief concern of the electorate was to keep gay couples from having an abortion.

THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE YOU THROW IT OUT THE WIDE OPEN WINDOW OF YOUR FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN, BUSH-SUPPORTING, WAR-MONGERING MIND:

thou shalt not kill.

all men are created equal.

As for fried chicken's LEFTIST talk, YOU don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Who do you think blows themselves up on the London Underground, in Madrid's commuter trains, in Turkey's vacation destinations, on Egypt's streets and in Bali's night clubs? Not the desciples of Osama? Then who? Of course not some billionaire Saudi with ties to the top of the political world, but some innocent kids whose brains get all twisted by the rhetoric of their so called leader.

Who gets killed in the streets of Baghdad? Some billionaire Punk from Crawford, Texas or innocent, idealist, US-centred, internationally uneducated, unexposed young American boys and girls, the men and women who "serve their country"?

Would you have been glad to be liberated from Nixon in 1974, had the Russians considered it a good move to INVADE the US because its arsenal of weapons of mass distruction was too much of a threat to the rest of the world when this great country of yours had such a weak leader? Maybe, but you hated the communists' guts so much that you started another war in Afghanistan, not much later, not realizing that you were getting yourselves into just another Nam.

And imagine, just for a minute, those Russians had invaded, had found and destroyed those weapons of mass distruction (YOU HAD THEM, STILL DO, remember???) had stuck around for years, sowing hatred and provoking your citizens by telling the black population that they were in essence still slaves, telling the white people that the black people were trying some kind of revolution, telling the few remaining, native Americans that they should defend their home country against those evil intruders, the white people who had taken over the holy soil of their ancestors.

And not only that, your "liberators", the Russians, would have supplied the alcohol-infested, drugged indians with modern weaponry to kill the white man, the black man, any man in fact. And soon enough the indians would have attacked the Russian invaders, too, realizing that they were just as bad as the white man who had stolen their country from them.

I'll say it again: start reading books that ask questions, start asking yourself and your leaders questions, instead of buying into the fabricated lies they offer you as answers and solutions and the so-called truth.

Leaders who call their opponents' arguments "liberal rhetoric" and "leftist propaganda" are prone to use those exact means themselves, or they wouldn't know so well what they were talking about...

People with integrity, with a conscience, with a backbone, have left Bush's cabinet - Colin Powell, a man your military forces trusted, and rightfully so (!) very recently, turned his back on Bush. Because Bush had made him, Powell, tell lies not only to the General Assembly of the United Nations, but to the Generals of the US armed forces and to the General Public - that is YOU, the American people.

There is no ONE truth. There are always several sides to each story. If you want to know more about the background of the 2003 Iraq invasion or 9/11, go check out the comprehensive, overwhelmingly detailed timelines posted on this THINKING MEN'S website - the one for Iraq starts in 1865 or so, 9/11 on 12/26/1979, listing 1624 distinct events that lead up to 9/11/2001 - that's how complex the world really is:

on 9/11: //www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline

on Iraq:
//www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq

Cooperative Research must sound like leftist, communist crap to you, right? Well, I wonder why that has to be so? Did one single person write the bible? Would it hold that much truth if that had been the case?

Did God or Jesus themselves write THE book you so firmly believe in and claim that they SAID NOTHING BUT THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH?

Then why does the old testament not just state Bush's favorite "an eye for an eye" but the new testament add "thou shalt love thine neighbor"?

Ever even THOUGHT about that stuff? Or are you one who just gets out his phrase book and quotes whatever fits the situation? Because that's what you do and that's what happens when you mistake guidelines for truth.

That's what happens when young muslims get tought all the wrong aspects of their own holy book and then go out there, brainwashed as they are, and blow themselves up on MY *BEEPING* DOORSTEP, not yours, NOT SINCE 9/11/2001.

And even 9/11 was on MY *BEEPING* DOORSTEP, NOT YOURS (I lived in NYC, I saw the towers with my own eyes - did you?????), or you wouldn't be so uptight about "liberating the world" - NOBODY who thinks straight, which means neither left nor right, just reasonable and logical, supports BUSH'S SCREWED UP WAR FOR OIL.

Did you lose ANYONE, any family or friend, not just a "fellow American", a hero (NYPD, FDNY, I salute you!) ON 9/11/2001?

NO? Well, guess what, I DID, we all did that day in New York. We lost a friend, we lost faith in humanity, we lost our innocence and that innocence could not possibly be replaced by the hatred, simplistic "LOGIC", black and white world view (axis of evil...) and rhetoric like Bush keeps preaching and practicing it.

I DO HAVE MY FAITH BACK BUT THAT FAITH ISN'T BUSH'S TO TEACH.

It's not the bible's to teach, it's not the kuran's to teach, it's not Ghandi's or JFK's or the Dalai Lama's to teach.

Find your own faith instead of a pre-fabricated religion, be responsible, grow up, think, speak up, defend your own freedom, but do it on your doorstep, not far away, in a country that never posed any military threat to you on your home soil. If you hadn't gone over there, none of the dead American troops would be dead now. Just like in Nam, where hundreds of thousands of civilians got killed but all you idiots do is mourn your dead, the dead you have to thank YOUR screwed up, irrational fear of others, of communism, for, NOT THE VIET CONG.

WE NEW YORKERS DIDN'T BUY INTO THIS SHIT - YOU RED STATE RESIDENTS AKA REDNECKS DID, APPARENTLY STILL DO.

If you're so convinced that Bush tells the truth and has respectable motives for this war in Iraq, then why is he in charge of an army that allows conflicting forces within Iraq to kill not only a still relatively small number of American troops but easily 10 fold that number of INNOCENT civilians? If they weren't innocent, then why would your president, the commander in chief of the "world police" that is the USA, have "LIBERATED" that people by removing its dictator?

THINK.

GIVE PEACE A CHANCE.

Message edited by author 2005-08-22 03:55:29.

elderell

Fujifilm FinePix S5000 Z

08/22/2005 07:10:07 AM · #109

Originally posted by BeeGee:

Remember why you voted for Bush? Ever actually thought about it?

I didn't vote for him,his DADDY,or his BROTHER...and I will never vote for any candidate with ties to BIG OIL,HALLIBURTON or any other conglomorate that could profit from war,and that includes Connie "Chevron" Rice..

rox_rox

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

08/22/2005 08:30:40 AM · #110

Originally posted by MadMordegon:

Originally posted by CalliopeKel:
Well the last thing I have to say in this thread is...

None of it really matters. Because rants and opinions won't change the course of things. The destiny of this planet is already chartered out. It has been since the beginning. Im sure that scares some people.

Let me put it this way. Whatever is going to happen, is going to happen. There are no surprises or curveballs thrown at God.

Destiny Awaits. Regardless of secularlism.

Originally posted by greatandsmall:

Originally posted by CalliopeKel:

Destiny Awaits. Regardless of secularlism.

Maybe so, but I'm going to keep praying...just in case.

And that is the kind of non-thinking that will continue to allow democracy to be flaccid in the US. If you actually believe in god then you believe he gave us free will and won't interfere in human affairs. So why pray to him in matters of human affairs?

A democracy cannot work if the people are not involved in the goings of their government. Unchecked men in power will always end up corrupt.

Religion and superstition should have no place in politics or the governing of people. Thats how it is in the Middle East and they arent fairing to well.

I think you missed the sarcasm in my comment; and I admit, it was very obscure, and not very nice. My "prayer" statement was solely to point out the contradictions I perceived in CallipeKel's remarks.

Originally posted by CalliopeKel:

I support Bush, I dont like the war on Iraq, but good things have come of his skewed methods of reasoning. Either way. We all want it to be over...Pray at nite so this will end soon, rather than later.

Big political debates are pointless. Nobody is going to change their viewpoint because of anything that happens here on this forum. And honestly, its not OUR opinions that matter, but rather those of our leaders and the Creator of the Universe.

Peace everyone.

Just for the record...I do "pray", if not by commonly accepted definition. I meditate to channel positive energy towards myself and my loved ones or a cause I care about. That being said, I don't rely on a Supreme Being to shape my destiny. The "God" I refer to is whole system that is this Universe. It's just hard for me to explain that to religious people, because they sometimes get upset and want to save me.

MadMordegon, I think if you read my posts with that in mind, you will find that we are really on the same page.

Roxanne

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

08/22/2005 09:02:26 AM · #111

Well, beegee certainly didn't disappoint me; he lived down to all my expectations.

sabphoto

Samsung Galaxy S8/S8+

08/22/2005 09:41:27 AM · #112

Sounds like it would all be better if America just kicked out everyone that doesn't have citizenship here, bring all our childern, mothers and fathers home from their overseas duties and close her borders, then stop helping the rest of the world, when they ask for it. See how much more gripping we get for not "loving our neighbor" when we don't help them with natural disasters, and the such. Wonder how much of our national debt we could close up by stopping to help others.

Yes America has made mistakes and there isn't a country/government out there that hasn't made mistakes too.

Go ahead, pull all our troops back, I'm willing to bet most would like to come home to their families and loved ones. I'm sure most would love to sleep in a bed instead of a cot or the hard hot and sandy ground. I'm sure most would die for something as lame as a McDondald's hamburger instead of the pre-made, freze dried crap they get for some meals. I'm also willing to bet most would also want to stay to help protect against people coming into OUR close minded, self-centered, money hungry country and killing people just doing their job.

It will never end...the bickering that is. If President Bush did pull or troops out tomorrow we'd have half the world yelling that we left them stranded and we should have stayed longer and the other half still yell at him for not pulling soon enough.

All these "arm-chair" presidents out there think it is so easy to run a country and keep EVERYONE'S (and I mean HIS people and the world) best interest in mind, go for it, I'd love to see you get off your butt and try it yourself. It's easy to point the fingers and put the blame elsewhere as long as it isn't towards you.

Message edited by author 2005-08-22 12:38:58.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

08/22/2005 10:21:17 AM · #113

I know I'm going to get flamed for this but I'm tired of the 'look at how good we are' attitude. The mess being cleaned up (rebuilding etc.) is due to the distruction caused by the war started by you know who (or is that He who must not be named?). So yes, the US cannot pull out yet since the mess isn't completely cleaned up yet.

Yes, Saddam was not a very nice person. Yes, he probably needed to be removed. However, wasn't it the US that propped him up in the first place?

There seems to be a trend here. Prop up a leader for whatever reason then as soon as the situation becomes unacceptable denounce the leader.

Also, based on recent news reports (possibly just speculations) Iraq is turning into another Vietnam. I just hope the administration doesn't treat the troops returning from Iraq the same way the Vietnam vets were treated.

Remember, its just opinion and I hope the general American populous does not get offended.

Jaimeson

Nikon D40

08/22/2005 10:53:28 AM · #114

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Also, based on recent news reports (possibly just speculations) Iraq is turning into another Vietnam. I just hope the administration doesn't treat the troops returning from Iraq the same way the Vietnam vets were treated.

A coworker of mine actually told me that his nephew was an MP in Iraq and came home after being hit by shrapnel. His stay at the Veteran hospital was not free. They charged him for his food.

elderell

Fujifilm FinePix S5000 Z

08/22/2005 11:49:44 AM · #115

Media reports are saying that Dubya is going to speak today about keeping our troops in Iraq for 4 years...I commend,and fully stand behind our children serving our country,but what are they getting in return??Their wages lowered because the 'war' is over?? Their families displaced because they can't afford the rent or mortgage?? Their civilian jobs outsourced to someone who can't even speak our language?? Bush has nothing to lose-he's a lame duck-but how many of his cronies will be up for re-election in the next 4 years?

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

08/22/2005 12:43:15 PM · #116

Why isn't Bush administration supporting the troops the way they should be. They are short many of the basic necessities to fight and survive in a hostile environment. Some only get the basic minimum for food and water, protective gear and ammunition. I heard on the news today that a number of GIs were killed from riding in unarmored Hummvies. In addition, when they get home from the war, if they make it, their minds and bodies are broken, and the Veterens Administration is running 2 Billion dollars in the red! It's not liberals who are disrespecting and not supporting the soldiers of our armed forces, its the Bush administration.

muckpond

Nikon D200

Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX Diagonal Fisheye for Nikon

08/22/2005 12:50:47 PM · #117

Originally posted by frychikn:

In 2001, leftists, thug-worshippers, and quislings all over the world were screaming their heads off that the US had no business going after the taliban and bin laden in Afghanistan. Now you can't find ANYBODY who was against this invasion.

from an article on ABC.com dated 11/08/2001, i quote:

Support for the U.S. military action in Afghanistan also remains broad and deep: Ninety percent support the military action, 75 percent "strongly." Eighty-five percent also say it's going well, although this view isn't nearly as firm â�� only 23 percent say it's going "very well," 62 percent "fairly well." (emphasis mine)

let's assume for a moment that you define "leftist" as "anyone who voted for Gore in 2000". that means that of the 50,999,897 leftists who took the time to vote in 2000 (500,000 more than those who voted for Bush, but we don't need to go there), approximately 45,899,907 of them supported the action in afghanistan.

i don't remember anyone screaming their head off or thug-worshipping at the time. my only disappointment with afghanistan was that we had to go in there at all. had they given up bin laden, we wouldn't have gone (theoretically).

well, i was also disappointed that the emmy awards got postponed again. :P

muckpond

Nikon D200

Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX Diagonal Fisheye for Nikon

08/22/2005 12:55:05 PM · #118

fwiw, i found this to be an incredibly interesting article in the New York Times a couple of weeks ago.

granted, as this article states, the situation is not this plush for everyone stationed in iraq -- far from it! but i don't understand why so much effort has been put into the cushioning of a select bunch of soldiers while so many urgent wartime supplies are needed?

so, whatever you think about it, i found this very interesting. it was accompanied by a photo of a g.i. shopping for a flatscreen tv at the local px. i couldn't find the photo in the archive, though.

-----

G.I.'s Deployed in Iraq Desert With Lots of American Stuff

By KIRK SEMPLE

08/13/05 "New York Times" -- -- CAMP LIBERTY, Iraq - First Lt. Taysha Deaton of the Louisiana National Guard went to war expecting a gritty yearlong deployment of sand, heat and duress, but ended up spending her nights in a king-size bed beneath imported sheets and a fluffy down comforter.

She bought the bed from a departing soldier to replace the twin-size metal frame that came with her air-conditioned trailer on this base in western Baghdad. She also acquired a refrigerator, television, cellphone, microwave oven, boom box and DVD player, and signed up for a high-speed Internet connection.

"We had no idea conditions were going to be this great!" said Lieutenant Deaton, 25, the public affairs officer of the 256th Brigade Combat Team and an ambassador of the exclamation mark. "My first thought was, oh my God! This is good!"

As much as modern warfare has changed in recent decades, so has the lifestyle of the modern warrior - at least the modern American warrior on base.

Camp Liberty, one of the best-appointed compounds in the constellation of American military bases in Iraq, has the vague feel of a college campus, albeit with sand underfoot, Black Hawks overhead and the occasional random mortar attack.

The soldiers live in trailers on a grid of neat gravel pathways, and the chow hall offers a vast selection of food and beverages, ethnic cuisine nights, an ice cream parlor and, occasionally, a live jazz combo. Camp Liberty, like many other bases, also has Internet cafes, an impressively stocked store, gymnasiums with modern equipment, air-conditioning everywhere and extracurricular activities like language and martial arts lessons.

Not that life is this comfortable for everyone. Small outposts in the rural hinterlands can be crude, at best, with nothing beyond the very basic amenities and soldiers required to wear their full "battle rattle" - body armor and helmet - all day because insurgent attacks are so frequent.

And for those soldiers whose jobs require them to leave base, there is no escape from the cruel realities of war in Iraq.

Wrapped in body armor and the ubiquitous threat of death, they choke on dust and heat and make do with Meals Ready to Eat. On long combat missions, they may go weeks without a shower and sleep wherever they can: on the ground, in empty buildings, in their cramped vehicles. Beyond that, the Pentagon's program to provide them with stronger, safer vehicles has suffered delays.

But wherever possible, the current generation of young soldiers - like its predecessors in Vietnam and other conflicts - has sought the succor of the familiar, and resourceful soldiers in this war have taken this quest to astonishing levels, accumulating all the accouterments of home: personal electronics, bed linens, furniture, household appliances and beauty products.

Gadgetry, in particular, proliferates among the 138,000 troops stationed in Iraq: laptop computers, MP3 and DVD players, digital cameras, televisions and video game consoles. On bases in greater Baghdad, many soldiers have cellphones and some have satellite dishes that pull in scores of stations. Personal DVD collections numbering several hundred are not uncommon; the legendary ones top 1,000.

Never in the field of human conflict has so much stuff been acquired by so many soldiers in so little time.

One Louisiana National Guardsman stationed on Camp Liberty converted his trailer into a recording studio, and a New York National Guardsman living nearby has spent some of his free time during the last year producing a record by a singer in New York using an electric keyboard, sequencer, laptop computer, sampler, drum machine and mixer in his room; he and the singer use sound files sent via the Internet to exchange musical ideas and recorded tracks.

"I don't know how they managed to acquire so much audio-visual machinery," said an amused Lt. Col. Geoffrey J. Slack, 48, commander of the First Battalion, 69th Infantry, of the New York National Guard, which is garrisoned on Camp Liberty with the Louisianans. "Some of these kids, they'll go out and fight all day, and they'll come back and play these goofy space-age electronic war games all night. The furthest thing from my mind is to play war games. You'll walk by and hear them hootin' and hollerin'."

Some of these luxuries came with the soldiers, but most are purchased from departing troops, in stores (the one at Camp Liberty sells at least 11 different makes of television, including a giant $2,999 42-inch JVC plasma television) or over the Internet (the United States Postal Service charges domestic rates for packages sent to troops in Iraq).

Lieutenant Deaton said, "Amazon, eBay and Overstock.com have all made money while we've been here."

The DVD collections among troops mostly comprise pirated disks, each containing several movies, that are sold on American bases by Iraqi vendors for about $3 each.

"Throughout the whole deployment, I was comfortable," said Specialist Chris Foster, a guardsman from Baton Rouge, La., whose initial spree of purchases last year included an electronic back massager. "I didn't have a need for anything."

For Specialist Foster, wartime comfort is often no further away than the nearest Xbox game controller, and he is particularly proud of his division-wide invincibility at Halo 2, a shoot-'em-up video game in which the player is "a genetically enhanced super soldier."

"They call me 'Halo God,' " Specialist Foster said. "Half my deployment I've spent playing Halo 2." He and other soldiers once ran cables between several different trailers enabling as many as 12 players to play at one time.

Lately, Specialist Foster has done much of his Xbox playing in the trailer belonging to Cpl. Andrew Smith, 23, a guardsman from La Place, La.

In addition to their Army-issued beds and wardrobe, Corporal Smith and his roommate outfitted the room with an entertainment center, a beanbag chair and custom-made shelves and a desk.

Their belongings include three guitars, a laptop computer with speakers and a 30-inch flat-screen TV with surround sound - a gift from Specialist Foster, who gave Corporal Smith his entire video-game complex in part to try to curb what he calls his "Halo 2 addiction."

"I wasn't into video games until I got here," Corporal Smith admitted, in the sheepish manner of someone confessing a new vice. "My wife told me I wasn't allowed to bring it home."

Now that the Louisiana and New York units at Camp Liberty have begun shifting living quarters in preparation for their return to the United States, the soldiers have been trying to find buyers for the items they do not want to ship home.

In this periodic ritual, fliers are posted around the base, which becomes a low-profile yard sale as newly deployed soldiers hustle deals from the departing troops.

On a recent morning, Phill Woods, 47, and Bob Szescila, 23, two military contractors, were perusing the booty of a group yard sale organized by the medical platoon of New York's 69th Infantry. Mr. Woods settled on a waist-high LG refrigerator; asking price: $60. Mr. Woods, a beefy man with a long ponytail, pulled a wad of cash out of his pocket and forked over $60, entirely ignoring the time-honored yard sale - and Middle Eastern - tradition of haggling.

"I'm not a haggling kinda guy," he shrugged as he and Mr. Szescila hauled the refrigerator toward its new home. "I'm a guy who's gotta pick up some people at a helipad."

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

BeeGee

Canon EF 28-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/23/2005 04:27:42 AM · #119

Here's another "update", intended to stirr up the discussion again as well as keep people thinking. Inspired by a thread about some silly online game Fetor was commenting and obviously "practising" on - which, by the way, I still do myself.

But I AM NOT about to exchange my PC for a rifle, my iPod for a hand granade, my car for a tank or my quiet, relatively happy existence at home for a time of military service and thus possibly murder or even my own death.

He is.

Don't worry, site admins, I'll post this over on the rant forum, too, and if you, Fetor, want to get into another discussion with me, I honestly suggest we "take it outside", do it by either phone (I'd call you) or e-mail/private messaging.

Yay, Fetor,

Play those funny games as long as you can...

Peace, brother,

Bruno

PS: Check out the falling approval ratings Bush gets IN THE US, the BASHING he gets from his own party's people in the Senate and House of Representatives because even THEY get sick and tired of Bush's rhetoric. They see that the war is WRONG and that you have to think ahead and find a way out of there before you have another Nam and another Wall to put up in DC.

Bush will not even have to consider getting re-elected in 2008, republican senators and members of congress will have to take the backlash he provokes with his actions. And they're already feeling the heat NOW!

Check this out from almost a year ago, NOT in the leftist media:
//www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-09-15-sens-iraq_x.htm

And then these results of NATIONWIDE polls (objective questions, real answers from real people from all over the USA, from both ends of the politicals spectrum!), dating from roughly two weeks ago:
//www.pollingreport.com/2008.htm

And then this, to see how the republicans are losing ground:
//www.politics1.com/

Nuff said - try your own interpretation of things.

08/23/2005 08:02:29 PM · #120

Originally posted by muckpond:

Originally posted by frychikn:

In 2001, leftists, thug-worshippers, and quislings all over the world were screaming their heads off that the US had no business going after the taliban and bin laden in Afghanistan. Now you can't find ANYBODY who was against this invasion.

from an article on ABC.com dated 11/08/2001, i quote:

Support for the U.S. military action in Afghanistan also remains broad and deep: Ninety percent support the military action, 75 percent "strongly." Eighty-five percent also say it's going well, although this view isn't nearly as firm â�� only 23 percent say it's going "very well," 62 percent "fairly well." (emphasis mine)

let's assume for a moment that you define "leftist" as "anyone who voted for Gore in 2000". that means that of the 50,999,897 leftists who took the time to vote in 2000 (500,000 more than those who voted for Bush, but we don't need to go there), approximately 45,899,907 of them supported the action in afghanistan.

i don't remember anyone screaming their head off or thug-worshipping at the time. my only disappointment with afghanistan was that we had to go in there at all. had they given up bin laden, we wouldn't have gone (theoretically).

well, i was also disappointed that the emmy awards got postponed again. :P

I would be more interested in seeing a poll from, say, 10/08/2001. A lot of the alleged 90% in the linked-to poll here was due to simple front-running and bandwagon jumping.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/23/2005 08:07:25 PM · #121

Originally posted by BeeGee:

But I AM NOT about to exchange my PC for a rifle, my iPod for a hand granade (sic) , my car for a tank or my quiet, relatively happy existence at home for a time of military service and thus possibly murder or even my own death.

Hell, I don't blame you! If I enjoyed a pampered, priviledged, and sheltered existence like you do, I'm sure I would be very reluctant to give it up if I didn't have to.

Nullix

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

08/24/2005 04:07:27 PM · #122

Well, I didn't vote for [him].

theSaj