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08/19/2005 01:59:42 PM · #51 |
Has anyone looked at Amber's portfolio pic? She has mesmerizing eyes. If the pic is to be believed, they are green, to boot. I seem to vaguely remember something about Chinese culture's fascination with green eyes, but I can't place it.
None of this is to excuse the behavior of the shopkeeper, that should go without saying. But is there a possible explanation here for the "odd" nature of the potential assault? I wish someone with a much deeper understanding of oriental cultures would happen to read this and venture more information in that area.
As for the husband's behavior, on the surface of it he is about as unempathic as your average male, based on what Amber's stated here. I mean, it's sad, but it's about what I'd expect, from personal observation, of most husbands; "Geeze, honey! All he did was GRAB YOUR WRIST! Nothiung happened! Get over it already, willya? Where's the remote?"
But, as others have pointed out, there's nowhere near enough information here to actually pass judgment on someone. Sure, he sounds like an insensitive clod, but on the other hand some of the macho posturing going on in response sounds just as bad to me.
I donno, I better shut up before I get in trouble. Or is it too late?
For what it's worth, if I were the husband in question I'd be totally supportive and sympathetic, but I wouldn't even THINK about hunting the dude down and slapping him upside the head.
Robt.
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08/19/2005 02:06:47 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Has anyone looked at Amber's portfolio pic? She has mesmerizing eyes. If the pic is to be believed, they are green, to boot. I seem to vaguely remember something about Chinese culture's fascination with green eyes, but I can't place it.
Robt. |
Green eye's in the chinese culture??? They refer to them as jade eyes an I'm pretty sure you got the from the movie "Big Trouble In Little China". Not to make light out of a situation but ore then likely thats where its from.
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08/19/2005 02:07:48 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by notonline:
Originally posted by bear_music:
Has anyone looked at Amber's portfolio pic? She has mesmerizing eyes. If the pic is to be believed, they are green, to boot. I seem to vaguely remember something about Chinese culture's fascination with green eyes, but I can't place it.
Robt. |
Green eye's in the chinese culture??? They refer to them as jade eyes an I'm pretty sure you got the from the movie "Big Trouble In Little China". Not to make light out of a situation but ore then likely thats where its from. |
Maybe her assailent was really Lo Pan.
Message edited by author 2005-08-19 14:20:04.
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08/19/2005 02:08:44 PM · #54 |
edit: off topic
Message edited by author 2005-08-19 14:13:57.
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08/19/2005 02:09:15 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
I mean, it's sad, but it's about what I'd expect, from personal observation, of most husbands; "Geeze, honey! All he did was GRAB YOUR WRIST! Nothiung happened! Get over it already, willya? Where's the remote?" |
Give me a break! You watch too much Simpsons or something...what kind of husbands do you hang out with? |
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08/19/2005 02:09:39 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by jemison:
Originally posted by aronya1:
...Case in point: My mother recently volunteered the information that she has been rear-ended in her car 6 times in her life. Either she's making it up (not impossible), or her driving technique needs an overhaul. |
Say what? Last time I checked, it is nearly always the fault of the person rear-ending the other - not visa-versa. So why are you suspicious of [i]her[/i/ driving technique? |
I think this has been answered 18 times in previous posts. |
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08/19/2005 02:22:29 PM · #57 |
I think an awful lot of people here are responding to the comment about clothing as if this happened in the USA or Europe. Many comments have been that this shouldn't happen whatever the woman was wearing but (not in this case it seems as Amber was sensibly dressed) if one does wear revealing clothes in a country where it is not acceptable, then I'm afraid you get what you deserve! I travelled to Egypt recently and made sure I packed long sleeved tops and wraps I could use as a headscarf. As far as I am concerned this is respecting another country's culture while I am their guest.
If this happened in the UK I would have decided if this was a serious assault (as in intended to be a sexual attack) and then reported it to the police. If I thought it was intended to be lighthearted and just the guy went over the top, I would have made my feelings very loudly known to him and everyone in the area and left it.
As for husbands, I would expect a bit of a response ( What! Are you alright? ) but if my husband went off to thump this man (or shoot him, did I read?!!) then I would be ready to reassess my husbands mental state!
Just my thoughts
Bad luck Amber, tell your husband how you feel without recriminations and take a friend when you go shopping in junk shops!
Pauline.
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08/19/2005 02:22:31 PM · #58 |
oops double post !
:)
Message edited by author 2005-08-19 14:23:10.
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08/19/2005 02:25:43 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by notonline:
Originally posted by bear_music:
Has anyone looked at Amber's portfolio pic? She has mesmerizing eyes. If the pic is to be believed, they are green, to boot. I seem to vaguely remember something about Chinese culture's fascination with green eyes, but I can't place it.
Robt. |
Green eye's in the chinese culture??? They refer to them as jade eyes an I'm pretty sure you got the from the movie "Big Trouble In Little China". Not to make light out of a situation but ore then likely thats where its from. |
No. I'm deaf and rarely watch movies. Haven't seen that one. It's something from my reading but I can't put my finger on it. (shrug)
As to the husbands issue, I'm of course exaggerating a little for dramatic effect, but even so I have seen a LOT of cases where guys got in trouble with their gals for failing miserably in the empathy sweepstakes. It's not for no reason that the "how to improve your relationship skills" self-help books consistently urge men to become more empathic: it's a real-world problem, dude.
Incidentally, being pissed off that it happened and hunting the guy down and clocking him is NOT a behavior that falls under the "empathic" category, however cathartic it might be.
R.
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08/19/2005 02:26:18 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Originally posted by bear_music:
I mean, it's sad, but it's about what I'd expect, from personal observation, of most husbands; "Geeze, honey! All he did was GRAB YOUR WRIST! Nothiung happened! Get over it already, willya? Where's the remote?" |
Give me a break! You watch too much Simpsons or something...what kind of husbands do you hang out with? |
Yeah Robert...when did you start hanging out with my husband? ;)
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08/19/2005 02:26:57 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Riponlady:
I think an awful lot of people here are responding to the comment about clothing as if this happened in the USA or Europe. Many comments have been that this shouldn't happen whatever the woman was wearing but (not in this case it seems as Amber was sensibly dressed) if one does wear revealing clothes in a country where it is not acceptable, then I'm afraid you get what you deserve! I travelled to Egypt recently and made sure I packed long sleeved tops and wraps I could use as a headscarf. As far as I am concerned this is respecting another country's culture while I am their guest.
If this happened in the UK I would have decided if this was a serious assault (as in intended to be a sexual attack) and then reported it to the police. If I thought it was intended to be lighthearted and just the guy went over the top, I would have made my feelings very loudly known to him and everyone in the area and left it.
As for husbands, I would expect a bit of a response ( What! Are you alright? ) but if my husband went off to thump this man (or shoot him, did I read?!!) then I would be ready to reassess my husbands mental state!
Just my thoughts
Bad luck Amber, tell your husband how you feel without recriminations and take a friend when you go shopping in junk shops!
Pauline. |
Every single word in this post made very much sense. Great response, thank you! |
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08/19/2005 02:27:55 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Riponlady:
I think an awful lot of people here are responding to the comment about clothing as if this happened in the USA or Europe. Many comments have been that this shouldn't happen whatever the woman was wearing but (not in this case it seems as Amber was sensibly dressed) if one does wear revealing clothes in a country where it is not acceptable, then I'm afraid you get what you deserve! I travelled to Egypt recently and made sure I packed long sleeved tops and wraps I could use as a headscarf. As far as I am concerned this is respecting another country's culture while I am their guest.
If this happened in the UK I would have decided if this was a serious assault (as in intended to be a sexual attack) and then reported it to the police. If I thought it was intended to be lighthearted and just the guy went over the top, I would have made my feelings very loudly known to him and everyone in the area and left it.
As for husbands, I would expect a bit of a response ( What! Are you alright? ) but if my husband went off to thump this man (or shoot him, did I read?!!) then I would be ready to reassess my husbands mental state!
Just my thoughts
Bad luck Amber, tell your husband how you feel without recriminations and take a friend when you go shopping in junk shops!
Pauline. |
Good to see someone else talking common sense here :-)
R.
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08/19/2005 02:32:57 PM · #63 |
lol well crap... the situation was diffused with a few common sense post and no offended members... guess that is best!!
Seriously, I hope your situation is resolved and all parties feel good about the results.
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08/20/2005 07:52:56 AM · #64 |
Firstly, I just wanted to agree that what someone is wearing should not impact on this argument at all. Secondly I wanted to say many times I have had people grab me, usually when they do it's around the wrist and are trying to tell me something and there's a language barrier involved thats happened quite often. Then there have been times where I knew it was far more than that. 7 years of martial arts cured me of being afraid to introduce them to my knee. Seems to me that in the middle of the day in a junk shop would be an unlikely place for someone to attack you with the intent to harm you. Maybe your husband thinks of it like this too. Maybe your fears of what could happen to and what has happened to you in the past have had a much more lasting effect that neither yourself or your husband can deal with. Sometimes we need outside help. I know it hurts to feel that someone you love is indifferent or uncaring to your situation but sometimes they can feel helpless and just do nothing. Many men fail to realize that all a woman wants is to be heard not have him fix her problems.
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08/20/2005 10:44:44 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by overclover:
Many men fail to realize that all a woman wants is to be heard not have him fix her problems. |
Good insight. Thanks.
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08/20/2005 10:55:50 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by amber:
He said I sounded calm on the phone so he thought I was over it.
He gets home and I'm suddenly angry - but he thinks I should be angry at the guy - buy he neve once said call the police - what does that say about me? |
It sounds to me like the real issue runs deeper than an unpleasant experience with a grabby shopkeeper.
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Bingo...my thoughts exactly..... |
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08/23/2005 09:19:14 PM · #67 |
I'm only now responding as I've been to Malaysia for four days.
I want to thank all those who gave a positive reasoned response.
I wasn't looking for 'validation of my anger' towards my husband as some said. I was looking for an answer to a question that had me baffled. And if those who said I shouldn't post that sort of question here could provide me with a list of topics that are allowed to be discussed, I would be very grateful.
"C) This was the 7th time you had been asaulted in some form in the last 10 years.
Sorry, but this sends up a flag for me. And before anybody jumps all over me for saying this, let me state that I am not defending the guy's actions. However, if somebody is consistently the "victim" of some type of action, I have a hard time believing they are completely innocent.
Case in point: My mother recently volunteered the information that she has been rear-ended in her car 6 times in her life. Either she's making it up (not impossible), or her driving technique needs an overhaul. "
Yes Aronya, it's my own fault: I walked into that shop in broad daylight - what was I thinking!!! I saw the Indian shop owner and came over all girly. I kept giving him the eye; I took every opportunity to brush past him and accidently touch him. I let my top fall off my shoulder at one point I believe, as I ran my fingers provocatively through my hair. I think you offend me more than he does.
The first time I was attacked. I was walking down a well- lit street, five minutes from my home. The guy attacked me from behind; half suffocated me and then indecently assaulted me. For a couple of minutes I thought I was about to die. The police asked me what I was wearing because as Mesmeraj said they were middle aged men who couldn't see past their own distorted filters. The guy who assaulted me was caught. He was a serial attacker, who had also indecently assaulted a number of boys and other women. I asked the police if they had asked the boys what they were wearing at the time..they looked at me as if I were speaking a foreign language.
Why was I attacked? Because some sick ******* happened to be in the same place as me at the same time.
Another time: I was walking down a well known tourist spot in Malaysia, not far from our apartment. It was 11.00am. I was fully covered to protect myself from the sun. After walking for 10 mins enjoying the sea air, I notice a guy pass me on a motorcycle, he parks up 100 yards a head. I walk past him. He gets on his bike and does the same thing again. So I turn around to avoid walking past him again. He drives against the traffic and stops 20 yards away from me. He gets off his bike and walks towards me, so I begin to cross the road to avoid him. He's smiling all the time. He moves to cut me off - and says "I'm going to fuck you" - still smiling. My legs go to jelly. I try to scream, but nothing comes out. I start to run, he runs after me. I make it through the thorn bushes in the middle of the road, cutting myself and tearing my clothes and he's still chasing me - laughing. On the otherside of the road I see another man stop on his bike. I silently thank god, he's sent someone to help me. Only I realise this man is not there to help me. He's actually seen what is going on and has decided to join in. He too, informs me he is going to 'fuck me'.
The two of them work like sheep dogs, enjoying the spectacle of seeing me trapped, cornered and sacred to death. They take their time.
All the time cars are just driving past, locals just turn away.
Eventually they catch me and I fight them off with an umbrella and a strength that comes from god knows where, but not before they've 'touched' me and hurt me. I run up the road, and they are still following me...Eventually they stop - but I keep running. I get home.
I ring my husband. He and and the company's head of personel (a local) take me to the police station. I sit there as they tell my husband - your wife is a western woman. The only place these men see western women is on TV and in films. They see these women on TV and in films having sex with everyone and anyone like prostitutes. They believe all western women are like this, they believe your wife is like this.
And that was that. The head of personel aplologised to me and my husband on behalf of his country.
Aronya - I think you would fit in well in the Malaysian police force.
Comparing your mother's 'rear-ending' accidents to my having been assaulted is, again, offensive and patronising, but I'm glad it gave you all a good laugh.
As for this going deeper? Not really, it is what it is. A man in a shop, who lost his sanity for a split second saw something he wanted there and then and was determined to have it. There was nothing cultural about it. There was nothing complimentary about it. It was a physcial assault that could have gone really bad. Did I cause it? No. Did I provoke him? NO. Yet some of you seem to think that I did, which I find incomphrehensible.
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08/23/2005 09:25:37 PM · #68 |
I feel for your shitty situation, truly.
But I feel the necessity of saying - if you do not want both sides to an argument laid out, don't lay it on the Internet. If you want to hear "he's a bad man" and "your husband should listen to you more!" then call your mom, seriously. If you post a hypothetical question on the Internet about something you feel strongly about, you're GOING to be offended when someone says anything contrary at all. And ya know what - it's going to happen EVERY time. Aronya said he did NOT agree with the guy's actions and then proceeded to make an argument. If you don't want argument, disagreement or another point of view, please stop posting.
M
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08/23/2005 09:29:10 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by amber:
He said I sounded calm on the phone so he thought I was over it.
He gets home and I'm suddenly angry - but he thinks I should be angry at the guy - buy he neve once said call the police - what does that say about me? |
I thought we were pretending.
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08/23/2005 09:33:11 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
I feel for your shitty situation, truly.
But I feel the necessity of saying - if you do not want both sides to an argument laid out, don't lay it on the Internet. If you want to hear "he's a bad man" and "your husband should listen to you more!" then call your mom, seriously. If you post a hypothetical question on the Internet about something you feel strongly about, you're GOING to be offended when someone says anything contrary at all. And ya know what - it's going to happen EVERY time. Aronya said he did NOT agree with the guy's actions and then proceeded to make an argument. If you don't want argument, disagreement or another point of view, please stop posting.
M |
I second this.
Get a reality check.
Smoke a cigarette on the street in most Mediterranean countries (as a woman) and you'll be pegged as a prostitute.
You're in a foreign country--deal with it!
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08/23/2005 09:36:10 PM · #71 |
Amber,
I have seen first hand what this type of treatment can do to a womens mental and physical state and I commend you for having the strength to carry on day to day considering what you have experienced. Rest assured your behavior or clothing had nothing to do with these perverts actions, most rape victims believe or are lead to believe that they someohow lead the person on or asked for it in some way.
There are many women who wouldn't be able to function let alone get out of bed if this happened to them just once. I have a friend who was raped repeatively by her boyfriend when she was younger. She luckily got away from him but it wasn't without almost losing her life. She still has nightmares and panic attacks when anything similiar happens around her.
Don't let the general public get to you, for one they don't know the entire story and two they weren't and can't be in your shoes so their (and my) opinions are just that...our opinions not facts.
Good luck and God bless you.
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08/23/2005 09:56:01 PM · #72 |
And just in case you could use a few pointers:
Travel tips for women
(and before you even dare tell me what my "credentials" are--there's little you've written here that I haven't got first-hand experience about)
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08/23/2005 10:22:33 PM · #73 |
OK, let me try this again;
Originally posted by amber:
Hypothetically speaking: You are working abroad. Your wife goes into a junk shop looking for some dolls to use for an image.The guy in the shop suddenly grabs your wife by the wrist hard, saying he is going to kiss her eyes. He hurts her wrist but she manages to break free and escape. How would you feel if:
a) your husband had to be reminded the next day thar it happened
B) he couldn't understand why you were still upset three days Later
C) This was the 7th time you had been asaulted in some form in the last 10 years. |
a) It sounds as though you are not satisfied with your husband's response.
b) It sounds as though you are not satisfied with your husband's response.
c) Since I assumed that you did nothing to provoke the attack; it was completely random.
Therefore it occurs to me that you are unhappy with your husband's reaction to a random occurrence.
You then continued:
Originally posted by amber:
He said I sounded calm on the phone so he thought I was over it.
He gets home and I'm suddenly angry - but he thinks I should be angry at the guy - buy he neve once said call the police - what does that say about me? |
That sounded to me as though you were sending him mixed signals and then internalized his response to those signals.
Therefore, I came to the conclusion that there was something else going on beyond than the fact that your husband did not get excited about a random occurrence (during which you were not rattled badly enough to call the police) about which you sounded "calm".
Should I speculate more? Probably not, but what the hell; I've already ticked off quite a few people here this week.
a) If this is the first time your husband has disappointed you with his response (or lack thereof) to your mixed signals, then you might be overly critical in this instance.
b) If such disappointment is common in your relationship, then the lines of communication may have broken down, and self-help may be beneficial.
In other words "It sounds to me like the real issue runs deeper than an unpleasant experience with a grabby shopkeeper."
Sorry to have offended you Amber. I've been assaulted a few times myself and I really feel for you.
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08/23/2005 10:49:43 PM · #74 |
I was upset when I first made this post - won't do that again.
I apologise to all of you for dragging you into this.
When I said I sounded calm on the phone it was because he was out of the country dealing with big problems business wise. So I didn't want to burden him further. In the days that passed, the reality hit me.
Then he returned, but of course he thought I was fine then.
There is probably something about me that makes me prone to attack. It's not lack of awareness,as I am hypervigilant now. After years of panic attacks I finally overcame them and got a sense of security back. So this incident rocked the boat. It's just a hiccup. I really need to look at myself and see where I am going wrong...
Sorry Roxanne, wasn't aimed at you - or anyone really...just a really bad week;)
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