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08/31/2005 11:24:58 AM · #101 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
due to this hurrican the price of gas is expected to rise 30 cents/gallon. You can drive your Yukon, but you will have to cut back someplace else... |
It's going to take more than $7.00 a tank increase for me to make an irrational move to get rid of my SUV. Then if it gets worse I will just cut back a little on the Starbucks. I'll find a way to get by...I'm not jumping ship on my SUV to ease the minds of irrational people.
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08/31/2005 11:36:24 AM · #102 |
I figure at $7.00/gallon, I won't get rid of my SUV. But I am happy that I have a secondary vehicle with "Rhonda" (my 86 Honda).
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08/31/2005 11:44:11 AM · #103 |
| It is called "The Law of Supply and Demand" Now taht China is buying more then we are the demand is higher, so that means that everyone pays more. Econ 101. |
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08/31/2005 11:59:13 AM · #104 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by "riponlady":
Not getting into this debate - fed up with being called a leftist - but I thought people might find it interesting to know that my father owned one of the first Austin minis (the original ones back in the late 50's). |
Just curious...how much MPG did it get?
28/36 mpg Mini-Coopers (Pocket Car)
25/32 mpg
18/22 mpg Toyota Highlander (SUV)
33/28 mpg Toyota Highlander (SUV) Hybrid
Heck, you're looks like you're actually better off driving an SUV in this case. Now, the Highlander is a small SUV. But folks...look at that...we're progressing. When an SUV can get equivalent gas mileage to a pocket car.
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The older minis were 850cc and did about 40/45 mpg. This is very different from the Mini Coopers you mention!
What are the emission laws in the USA nowadays? How do they compare to European laws? This might affect mpg.
An 1.7 Turbo diesel Citroen estate we owned did up to 55mpg on a run.
I think generally we have been used to being more aware of mpg because of the price of petrol over here. We only relatively recently started using the larger cars to carry 6/8 people and although they are popular with large families, most people own a 4/5 seater car that gives good mpg when driving in towns etc. Remember we do the majority of our driving on non-motorway roads (not freeways) over much shorter distances than in the USA.
P
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08/31/2005 12:23:07 PM · #105 |
When I was a child, there were four of us, and two parents and we had a normal sized car. All six of us packed in tight.
The difference now??
Carseats.
I don't put my toddler in a carseat so that he can be comfortable and see out the window. I put him in a carseat because our law requires it and it is like a $100 immediate fine and 3 points on your license (moving violation) if you do not have it or if it is not installed correctly.
I also have to have my infant in a carseat.
Now, I don't mind, because i feel they are infinitely more safe that way. BUT, the car my parents drove would not transport that same family today -- there are not enough seatbelts.
I drive the mini van because the toddler seat squashes my son's legs up in the Jeep (and the van gets better gas mileage).
As stated before, I would love to have my metro back right now, but neither car seat would fit. :(
AND the law here requires that kids up to 8 years old or 80 pounds be in a carseat/booster seat.
Just FYI. |
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08/31/2005 12:23:07 PM · #106 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by "legalbeagle":
Eg the Vauxhall (GM) Zafira, 7 seater: |
Hmm...do you have a picture? |
Vauxhall Zafira (example of relatively fuel efficient 7 seater car)
My point is that there are a lot of efficient cars in the world - most of which do not appear to be sold very much in the US where the US car manufacturers have a stranglehold, and where foreign manufacturers have to build to a certain mould. Conversely, US car manufacturers build to a different mould for extra-US market, with very few US-style gas guzzlers available in the foreign market (cost of gas too high to suffer them).
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by "legalbeagle":
Does anyone else see the irony in Katrina washing oil rigs out to sea? |
Only if you're a sick twisted bastard...one who cares more about agenda than about the hundreds of bodies washed out to sea. |
So that would be a big "no" to appreciating irony (Irony is not "funny" - here it is a grim irony).
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08/31/2005 01:06:18 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by "riponlady":
What are the emission laws in the USA nowadays? How do they compare to European laws? This might affect mpg. An 1.7 Turbo diesel Citroen estate we owned did up to 55mpg on a run. |
I'm not too sure, but I know that most California emissions certified vehicles get lower gas mileage (and cost a lot more too) but most vehicles around where I am that are being sold are now the California standard. (And I'm almost as far from California as you can get in the U.S.)
Originally posted by "riponlady":
Remember we do the majority of our driving on non-motorway roads (not freeways) over much shorter distances than in the USA. |
See this is one of the major differences between here and Europe. In the 60's our cities economics collapsed. Most everything of value moved "out" of the cities to the sub-burbs. (Actually started in the 40's). The result. I live in a city...but I have to get in my car and drive 1-2 towns over to get to a grocery store, a bank, etc.
I think in Europe, most of the cities are more functional in that you probably walk a block or two for groceries. In fact, you might only walk 6 blocks to work so you pick up your groceries on your way home. It's not like that here.
See, our jobs are scattered and usually far away from our homes. We seperate our "industrial zones" from our "commercial zones" from our "residential zones". A lot of this was due to the realization of industrial environments on the human body. In the city I live in we have a massive factory complex "Winchester Arms". It is mostly a ghost factory now. It is surrounded by houses. Those homes were teh workers. They used to walk to work, and walk home for dinner. Not anymore. The pollution was not what mom's wanted near their children. So we moved all the factoris "out" and far away. People now drive miles to work. And designated "residential" areas were built. Businesses and commerce discovered the best place to be was between "industrial" and "residential" settings. So we're very migratory in our day.
Originally posted by "legalbeagle":
Zafira |
First off, glad you don't appreciate the irony....second, as for the Zafira. Nope not an option available to us. I do recall that there is something different between our diesel and your diesel. And European diesel being much cleaner and more efficient. But I don't recall the details or the why's for that matter.
I think most families would buy a 50mpg mini-van in a heart beat if they could... |
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08/31/2005 01:16:17 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by legalbeagle:
Vauxhall Zafira (example of relatively fuel efficient 7 seater car)
My point is that there are a lot of efficient cars in the world - most of which do not appear to be sold very much in the US where the US car manufacturers have a stranglehold, and where foreign manufacturers have to build to a certain mould. |
Hey LB,
I did a little research into the diesel question....apparently, the issue at hand is that the diesel vehicles do not meet many states strict emissions requirements.
(So, in this case, we've chosen to release pollutants at the expense of mileage.)
But it does sound as if newer models are beginning to approach the necessary levels. With some being certifiable in 45 of the 50 states.
I guess Europe has less of an automobile density and I guess less stringent emission requirements.
For example: I know people who had illegally modified their cars in the past (by getting rid of or modifying the various emission controlling componenets such as the catalytic converter) and claimed to gain 5-10mpg improvement in fuel efficiency. So some of this may be a trade off between "efficiency" and "emissions". I know that a lot of our gasoline is processed and refined differently from state to state. Some require additives to reduce emissions which greatly reduce fuel performance. So I think there are probably a lot of apples affecting the options.
Kinda makes a bit more sense to me...cause, I'd love a 50mpg SUV or Mini-van with towing torque.
"The catch, if you will, is to build diesel-powered vehicles that meet the emissions standards nationwide, while still creating a vehicle that the public wants to buy ΓΆ€” meaning one that the noise, vibration and performance are comparable or better than the typical gasoline engine. BMW is one company that has succeeded in building diesel versions of nearly every model it manufacturers. These versions are widely accepted by European customers, but U.S. emissions standards mean BMW has no plans to bring a diesel car to America currently. "If we could offer a 50-state clean diesel-powered car, the likelihood [of bringing it to America] would certainly be greater," BMW Product Communications Manager Dave Buchko said."
"The big challenge is that the emissions control systems, which filter out nitrogen oxides and particulates, don't work well with today's U.S. diesel fuel, because it has a much higher sulfur content than Europe's diesel fuel. The EPA has mandated diesel fuel be produced with a lower sulfur content, but that change won't take full effect until 2006."
Here's some more explanation with some good news too. Apparently, our diesel is different than yours. (Containing a much higher sulfur content.) But from the sounds of it that's to be reduced come 2006.
The article also goes on to explain some of the difficulties. For example, Toyota has a diesel version of the Camry that meets the upcoming increased emission requirements ("the new standards mean a 77 percent cut in nitrogen-oxide emissions and an 88 percent drop in particulate emissions.") But they're having difficulty with it's lifespan. As the vehicle approaches 100,000 miles it's emission quality begins to lower and the vehicle no longer meets the emissions requirements. (This may seem a silly issue but some years back most states began instituting "emissions testing".) Any vehicle owner who's vehicle fails the emissions test in my state must expend approx. $400 to improve the emissions. Doing so will grant you a 1-year stay. After that year you re-test. If you fail, you must once again drop $400. So if you were to have a Toyota diesel Camry and after 100,000 miles it constantly failed the emissions tests it'd earn a negative reaction from it's owners who would be out an extra $400 a year.
Article explaining a lot of this...
Message edited by author 2005-08-31 13:23:33. |
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08/31/2005 01:19:43 PM · #109 |
| Up here in northern ontario the gas is 4.74/gallon (or 1.25/litre) I think I got the conversion right. Sad. Very sad. |
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08/31/2005 01:21:53 PM · #110 |
| actually I was wrong ;). It's 2.64/gallon.. |
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08/31/2005 01:22:53 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
Up here in northern ontario the gas is 4.74/gallon (or 1.25/litre) I think I got the conversion right. Sad. Very sad. |
Actually, it would be $3.69USD/gallon. |
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