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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Does recognizing a photog change your vote?
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 08/09/2005 11:13:34 AM · #51
you guys are gonna make all the good photographers stop participating. Every time one of them makes a great image there's all this talking about how it's fair/biased/ whatever. I think this thread should be killed. The good images win, and that's that.
 08/09/2005 11:40:06 AM · #52
Originally posted by petrakka:
you guys are gonna make all the good photographers stop participating. Every time one of them makes a great image there's all this talking about how it's fair/biased/ whatever. I think this thread should be killed. The good images win, and that's that.


...define "good"...
 08/09/2005 11:43:12 AM · #53
us CRAPPY photographers are going to drive away all the REAL talent?

geez ... thanks

:)

Originally posted by petrakka:
you guys are gonna make all the good photographers stop participating. Every time one of them makes a great image there's all this talking about how it's fair/biased/ whatever. I think this thread should be killed. The good images win, and that's that.
08/09/2005 11:44:02 AM · #54
Hey, thats an idea...a self port, but somebody else's face (or body).

There, that ought to kill this thread.

Originally posted by scalvert:
My point is that you can't really tell who did what with absolute certainty. A Picasso may be worth more than a Braque, but few people could tell the difference between them, so in an anonymous contest you simply have to score the images on their own merits. I believe the VAST majority do, and the handful that might be influenced will have little effect on the scores. When a commenter says, "That's so cool! It must be Kiwiness," is the image really any less cool if it's NOT Gary's?

The best place to judge the effect of name recognition is probably the Self Portrait challenges, where anonymity is scarce. You'll see a lot of familiar names at the top of these challenges, but that's because better photographers tend to take better photos. I don't think the results would change much if you substituted someone else's face for the familiar photographer.


Message edited by author 2005-08-09 11:45:30.
 08/09/2005 11:47:05 AM · #55
Given that a healthy proportion of the voters DON'T recognize the photographer (either because they're new or just didn't pick up on it) and that at least SOME of the remainder score objectively regardless, that leaves only a minority with even the potential to influence the score. Of those, some might score high for the recognition, while others score low because it's "been done." Those opposing scores will cancel out and further diminish any possible effect. Note that in each of Librodo's last two portraits to score below 6, at least one commentor recognized the photographer (so it's likely that others did), but that didn't save the shots from scoring way below Manny's average.
 08/09/2005 11:49:52 AM · #56
true. true.

unfortunately, we'll never really know the answer (or impact)

Originally posted by scalvert:
Given that a healthy proportion of the voters DON'T recognize the photographer (either because they're new or just didn't pick up on it) and that at least SOME of the remainder score objectively regardless, that leaves only a minority with even the potential to influence the score. Of those, some might score high for the recognition, while others score low because it's "been done." Those opposing scores will cancel out and further diminish any possible effect. Note that in each of Librodo's last two portraits to score below 6, at least one commentor recognized the photographer (so it's likely that others did), but that didn't save the shots from scoring way below Manny's average.
08/09/2005 12:27:33 PM · #57
I realize this has been talked about just about enough, but I would like to add something.

When I said yesterday that recognizing someone's work would tend to make me vote differently, usually higher, I didn't mean that I actually would vote higher. What I am saying is that recognition makes me (and I think many others) look at pictures differently, with a certain sense of familiarity, and that somehow translates to higher numbers in my mind.

It's similar pictures that I comment on: somehow, after commenting, I'm frequently tempted to up the score, as if looking at the picture more carefully and becoming familiar with it makes me like it better or think better of it.

I think it is that sense of familiarity that makes the difference. It is not intentional, but I do believe it happens. But it doesn't mean you have to go for it and actually raise the score.

Actually, if you think about it, it could work backwards and to a photographer's disadvantage to have a recognizable style.


08/09/2005 12:41:26 PM · #58
Originally posted by VinceDoss:
This entire discourse should serve as a learning/teaching moment. Of course the recognition of a style will influence you! You may not think so but the mere fact that you consciously or sub-consciously recognize something about an image will influence how it stimulates your brain. How you choose to act on this knowledge is where your self-discipline as an art/photo critic/voter comes in to play. I can only hope for the day when I realize there is some recognizable commonality to my photos (other than sucking). These artists may or may not realize it yet. It may just happen. Let's face it, Picasso is Picasso, Rembrandt is Rembrandt, Hemingway is Hemingway, Ansel is Ansel. Do you think these masters set out to formulate a style? No, What we know of their work came about in time just like it will for some of us. Someone said, "Ah haa" about their work one day too. I think the fun in interpreting Heida's work is thinking about whether she knows what she wants to do before she does it; She has said she wants to go to school for photography so she may just be using some pp techniques that she is comfortable with and this is what we are recognizing. We all do that, I think. I look for the story, the communication. Post-processing is only part of the game. IMO the real work happens in the camera, finding the photograph at some location. Heida has the benefit of Light from an angle most of us dont enjoy but she is creating some wonderful photographs that convey emotion (to me). I digress....I ramble on too much and find it hard to express myself in words sometimes...I just hate to see these negative connotations about people just because you/we/us (the royal "we") might recognize someones work. I just think some of us are missing the point.


I tend to agree with the sentiments expressed by Vince. But I'd like to remind all that this thread is discussing recognition in the context of dpc challenges with their attributes of competitiveness, anonymity and recurring nature. It's a limited venue. It's not the same as the larger photographic universe.
 08/09/2005 12:46:27 PM · #59
If you recognize a photographers style, then you will vote high if you like the style, and lower if you do not... only makes sense.... but if people ever recognize my style (assuming someday I develope one), then I would want them to tell me, so I can try to make changes to improve it...
 08/09/2005 01:10:20 PM · #60
Originally posted by HornOUBet:
If you recognize a photographers style, then you will vote high if you like the style, and lower if you do not... only makes sense.... but if people ever recognize my style (assuming someday I develope one), then I would want them to tell me, so I can try to make changes to improve it...


Almost ALL of my learning over the last year has been completely due to the benefits from my short time here with DPC. I'm beginning to be able to shoot towrds the challenges and the voters likes far better than when I started and I look at it in a positive, commercial technique...or just a clear technique type of way or formula. I love that by the way...there's nothing wrong with having great technique (in camera or PP). I hope my style will, if I have one, creep through and that both will be met with some approval.

I don't however want to bend completely to what's becoming popular though I would still like to explore and better learn these techniques that are scoring well but not for that reason. That's NOT to ignore the great creativity that's behind these images either. I tip my hat.

I really hope it doesn't sound like I'm picking on anything or anybody in particular because the more I look at Heidas image, for example, the more I love it. She clearly did it way better than any of the entries with that similar ghosting theme....hands down.

I'm a little more concerned with the voters here, because I do shoot to score well or respectably. Learning how to shoot while you're competeing with trial efforts is hard enough.
 08/09/2005 01:59:55 PM · #61
It doesn't affect my voting if I recognise somebody's style.
I always vote everyone a 1 ;-)
 08/09/2005 03:30:12 PM · #62
I think that folks do recognise fotogs & style. I think folks like heida win not bc folks recognise her shot but bc the her pix/style resonate with folks here at dpc often enough for her to win mad ribbons, sometimes 2,3,4 times in a row.

if you look at her portfolio, her stuff really RAWKS!
08/09/2005 04:48:25 PM · #63
I thought it was part of the rules that photographs should not be identifiably yours. With the Heida example (not to pick on you Heida) many dpcers picked that it was hers before the challenge was over. For those members that are selective and wait for challenges to come along that suits their style, when they take their shots (brilliant ones in the case of Heida), they're instantly one up on others. They've got a shot that meets the challenge, as that's the only reason they're entering, an amazing photo in it's own right, amd the advantage of most people thinking that their work is awesome all the time. Not that others couldn't do this themselves, but tnere are by nsture those who are very good at it at this particular time. My 2 cents.
 08/09/2005 05:24:59 PM · #64
Never once has an image won a challenge because voter's recognized who took and processed it. The essence, quality and so on of an image will be the deciding factor on whether it is a winner or not.

Heida's style or graphicfunk's experience and so on do not win challenge. There quality, knowledge, etc set them on the higher plane of consistent entries. Naturally we are drawn to look at the top 10 or 20 we want to see the best after the challenge is done. We only recognize them because they are consistently in that category. We remember their images because they are well known.

If you do recognize a photographer, which might happen 5% of the time in a vote you are not going to have a win/loss affect on the challenge.


08/09/2005 05:35:54 PM · #65
Originally posted by Philos31:
It doesn't affect my voting if I recognise somebody's style.
I always vote everyone a 1 ;-)


LOL good one! If I recognize a photographer and I think it will affect my vote I don't vote on it. Happened once too. I dunno, I just wanted to be fair.
 08/10/2005 01:00:40 AM · #66
Originally posted by tristalisk:
It does effect my vote. If I see a heida, or librado? photo I tend to judge them a bit more on the harsh side. Not poorly I have just come to expect more from a few of the photogs on the site. If Heida does a bad dodge and burn job I am likely to penalize her a bit heavier than just the average shot. But despite the stricter judging Heida is still on the top of my statistical favorites list.

This also works against everyone else in the challenge (in a positive way). When one individual defines themselves as the standard for a certain field -- everyone else is judged how well they measure up to the new standard. So all the really good photographers are dragging the score down for everyone else -- and that is a good thing. ;)

The higher the expectations, the higher everyone else has to push themselves -- and only good will come of that.

David
 08/10/2005 02:40:49 AM · #67
I'm so proud of myself - I had the identity of the photographer down for not only Heida's shot, but also JJbeguin's and Librodo's in the long exposure challenge. Oh, and while I scored all three highly, I'm pretty sure I would have scored them the exact same if I'd had no idea who shot them.
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