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08/09/2005 01:15:42 AM · #26 |
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08/09/2005 04:34:04 AM · #27 |
Maybe.
Not in the sense of, 'I like that person's previous work so I must like this one as well'. That's just grade school silly. But knowing a photographers style, what they like to shoot and the voice they speak with gives a much greater insight into any photograph of theirs. So, yes, in some cases it does influence my vote. Familiarity breeds understanding, and understanding increases the chance of getting it.
David
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08/09/2005 04:51:07 AM · #28 |
No! But now that I am able to recognize so many of the participants, I love to look at the image real long and try to see how it was done. The last one from Heida was easily recognizable to me at least because she used the same dress as she did for the Angel photo, for awhile I thought someone was imitating her!
Angel
Lost
Love them both but maybe it was risky for the observant ;)
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08/09/2005 07:17:27 AM · #29 |
I honestly believe that there are MANY voters that vote high numbers to recognizable photogs images or style. There's plenty of that lemming type mentality to go around all over the world so it's nothing new and I'm beginning to wonder if I'd need to at least slightly copy the Top Regulars style in order to ribbon.
Many of those higher rated images are really, really good but not always the best(IMNSHO) and it's beginning to make me wonder. I haven't entered the last 5-6 challenges and I hope I'm not feeling subconciously boxed out.
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08/09/2005 08:04:07 AM · #30 |
It usually makes me comment, but the vote doesn't really change (sometimes when you comment you see new things and that might add a point). Most of the times when I haven't recognized it the vote was in the same pattern for that person.
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08/09/2005 08:22:11 AM · #31 |
I really can't imagine anyone intentionally voting higher because they recognize a photographer (or think they do). Recognizable processing techniques or locations might get consistently high votes, but only because the images themselves are appealing. Librodo or Heida each have a familiar style and choice of subject, and if you voted high the first time you saw one of their images, then you found it appealing and you'll probably vote high the next time too. No matter how many times I see it, it's hard to vote low on a spectacular sunset at Cannon Beach (if it fits the challenge). Now if it were Nikkon Beach...maybe, but not Cannon.
I try to vary my subjects and styles, yet I still get comments from people who have figured out which shot is mine. Does it help my score? Ha! If it did, my subjects would all be sporting nametags. ;-P |
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08/09/2005 08:22:29 AM · #32 |
Jacko once pulled a 7 without even reading the challenge description :)
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08/09/2005 08:33:02 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I really can't imagine anyone intentionally voting higher because they recognize a photographer (or think they do). |
With all do respect I think it's easy to imagine that is prevalent or happens enought to make a difference. Look at the world. I would say that like images, styles recognizable photo's (in that image) can easily get an edge. You're coreect that these images are usually really great but I'm mostly talking about an edge. It happens all the time in many other venues...so why wouldn't it happen here?
Then again there's no way to prove this, of course..................
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08/09/2005 08:40:03 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
I must confess I voted low on an image once because I thought I knew whose it was and I was tired of seeing the same images. As it turned out I was wrong. (Doh! Foot in mouth) But thought about it and decided it deserved the score anyway because I was tired of seeing those images - so it wasn't personal against the photog, but against the subject matter. (note it wasn't a troll-level low score, just lower than the average). |
Kpriest...was it the fact that you saw the same image throughout the challenge or same image always from the same person? If it is the first instance, I don't see how you could possibly vote down someone because they had the same idea as someone else, did you end up voting down everyone that had that same image or just that one that finally made you tired of them all? Seems like someone got unfairly deducted some points, shoot their picture may have been better than the others but wasn't given the chance.
Even if there is the same image throughout a challenge it isn't very fair to mark down cause you're bored with it, aren't we voting on how well they photographed their subject? yes originality does have it's advantage but if they pulled off a similar shot but with better lighting or perspective don't they deserve those points? Sometimes seeing the same image from different views or setups teaches a lot more than just one image.
If you were referring to the same type image from the same photographer then, yes they need to work on getting out of the box a little.
Just the opinion from someone trying to learn more.
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08/09/2005 08:44:32 AM · #35 |
To be honest, I never stop and think who may have done a particular image. Even where I see an image that reminds me of one I've seen previously I just don't assume it's by the same photographer because one of the things people do here to learn is to emulate images and styles of those whose work they admire.
I just don't think about who might have taken an image so the issue of being biased when knowing who has taken it doesn't come up for me.
I don't care who has taken it frankly. I just care about my reaction to it on an individual basis.
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08/09/2005 08:47:30 AM · #36 |
Good images get high votes and bad images get low votes. Thus, even the most popular photographers have scored below 5 (sometimes often). If a particular "formula" proves successful, it's not hard to imagine that the photographer will try to repeat that success, and maybe improve upon it. It shouldn't surprise anyone that similar shots will score similarly, but I doubt that anyone will give "bonus" points for recognizing the photographer. Note that Heida's first blue ribbon is still among her highest rated, and her first "dark cloud" shot to ribbon is still her highest rated in that genre. If recognition lead to higher scores, then both of those images should have been displaced long ago.
Message edited by author 2005-08-09 09:26:34. |
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08/09/2005 08:51:11 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by sabphoto:
Even if there is the same image throughout a challenge it isn't very fair to mark down cause you're bored with it, aren't we voting on how well they photographed their subject? |
There was a time when reflections in water drops were a guaranteed top 20 no matter what the challenge was. It got ridiculous. It doesn't matter to me how well it's been done again - that type of photo has just been done to death. But there are usually enough newbies who have never seen it who are just as stunned by it as the rest of us were the first time we saw it.
(using water drops as an example, there are others) |
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08/09/2005 08:53:39 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Good images get high votes and bad images get low votes. |
Generally speaking, I agree ... but I think there are exceptions |
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08/09/2005 09:22:10 AM · #39 |
Anyone who thinks they can vote totally objectively when they recognize a certain photographer's style is only kidding themself. Anyone who thinks that this has not been used to gain an advantage, or an edge, is being naive.
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08/09/2005 09:27:45 AM · #40 |
It does effect my vote. If I see a heida, or librado? photo I tend to judge them a bit more on the harsh side. Not poorly I have just come to expect more from a few of the photogs on the site. If Heida does a bad dodge and burn job I am likely to penalize her a bit heavier than just the average shot. But despite the stricter judging Heida is still on the top of my statistical favorites list.
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08/09/2005 09:45:05 AM · #41 |
Anything that looks like a Heida automatically gets a 3 from me. She must be stopped.
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08/09/2005 09:49:16 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
To be honest, I never stop and think who may have done a particular image. |
For Heida's last image which is amazing there are, I counted around 23 references to Iceland, "thinking that they knew who took the photo" ...or Heida by name. So it's safe to say that MANY people are looking or noticing these details.
A few people mentioned fairness and I'd say that going way beyond that, there is also subconcious that falls into peoples voting patterns. We're only human and voting on a Duck or flower image for the 30th time in any given challenge might not get a fair shake (...perhaps for lack of originality, maybe?).
My main personal concern on this issue is that certain PARTICULAR standards are being carved out that might need to be mimicked in order to do well in challenges, when there are so many other great possibilities. It's all fair and good but is that where I need to focus my skills? I don't shoot for ribbons but I don't shoot for 150th place either.
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08/09/2005 09:54:14 AM · #43 |
 
Heida? Librodo? Nope. It makes little sense to punish or reward a photographer just because you think you recognize their work. |
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08/09/2005 09:58:58 AM · #44 |
I'm not sure how posting two "mimick" shots that did extremely well strengthens your arguement?
(not suggesting the shots were mimicked, only that they are similar)
Originally posted by scalvert:
Heida? Librodo? Nope. It makes little sense to punish or reward a photographer just because you think you recognize their work. |
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08/09/2005 10:05:50 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Heida? Librodo? Nope. It makes little sense to punish or reward a photographer just because you think you recognize their work. |
In the case of voting up, the point is someone thinking 'It's by , so it must be good, 10'.
The point is, the voter is overriding their opinion with general concensus.
You show someone a horrible painting and tell them it's by Da Vinci, I bet they'll provide more positive feedback than if you tell them it's by... me!
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08/09/2005 10:25:27 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
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In the case of voting up, the point is someone thinking 'It's by , so it must be good, 10'.
The point is, the voter is overriding their opinion with general concensus.
You show someone a horrible painting and tell them it's by Da Vinci, I bet they'll provide more positive feedback than if you tell them it's by... me! [/quote]
Bing, bing,bing, chicka, chicka, chicka, rattle, rattle, ting, ting, ting...(bells and sirens). Those are my Las Vegas...winning sounds.
You hit the nail, ON DA HEAD!
I'm only guessing but I believe that happens ALL the time everywhere in art and mass media. I could name a million music related similarities but wouldn't open up that can of worms.
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08/09/2005 10:36:05 AM · #47 |
BTW...interesting story.
I once had a painting that I did myself, nicely framed (for over $200...crazy) and after I picked it up went out to dinner with friends and dragged the piece around all night. I told people that I purchased it (as a joke) for either $800, $1000, $450 whatever and the respones and the critiques were awesome at the top price ranges (and really good at the bottom as well). People who knew that I did the painting responded to it in a very positive light too, I should add but the top, top $$$ critiques found some amazing things and insights and angles...that weren't there.
The best part was that I was dragging the painting around Soho that night. Yeah baby!
Message edited by author 2005-08-09 10:44:57.
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08/09/2005 10:44:03 AM · #48 |
My point is that you can't really tell who did what with absolute certainty. A Picasso may be worth more than a Braque, but few people could tell the difference between them, so in an anonymous contest you simply have to score the images on their own merits. I believe the VAST majority do, and the handful that might be influenced will have little effect on the scores. When a commenter says, "That's so cool! It must be Kiwiness," is the image really any less cool if it's NOT Gary's?
The best place to judge the effect of name recognition is probably the Self Portrait challenges, where anonymity is scarce. You'll see a lot of familiar names at the top of these challenges, but that's because better photographers tend to take better photos. I don't think the results would change much if you substituted someone else's face for the familiar photographer. |
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08/09/2005 10:46:20 AM · #49 |
This entire discourse should serve as a learning/teaching moment. Of course the recognition of a style will influence you! You may not think so but the mere fact that you consciously or sub-consciously recognize something about an image will influence how it stimulates your brain. How you choose to act on this knowledge is where your self-discipline as an art/photo critic/voter comes in to play. I can only hope for the day when I realize there is some recognizable commonality to my photos (other than sucking). These artists may or may not realize it yet. It may just happen. Let's face it, Picasso is Picasso, Rembrandt is Rembrandt, Hemingway is Hemingway, Ansel is Ansel. Do you think these masters set out to formulate a style? No, What we know of their work came about in time just like it will for some of us. Someone said, "Ah haa" about their work one day too. I think the fun in interpreting Heida's work is thinking about whether she knows what she wants to do before she does it; She has said she wants to go to school for photography so she may just be using some pp techniques that she is comfortable with and this is what we are recognizing. We all do that, I think. I look for the story, the communication. Post-processing is only part of the game. IMO the real work happens in the camera, finding the photograph at some location. Heida has the benefit of Light from an angle most of us dont enjoy but she is creating some wonderful photographs that convey emotion (to me). I digress....I ramble on too much and find it hard to express myself in words sometimes...I just hate to see these negative connotations about people just because you/we/us (the royal "we") might recognize someones work. I just think some of us are missing the point.
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08/09/2005 11:00:14 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I believe the VAST majority do, and the handful that might be influenced will have little effect on the scores.
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I'll have to disagree with you here. I think there are more than enough (a BIG more than enough) people who see, look for, notice, vibe-out the top popular standards and do, totally influence the scoring or voting patterns. I would say, without question but there's no factual way to prove it either way.
We are all generalizing here, I should add and there are plenty of examples to support all the theories stated. I'm sure we agree on that.
Again, I would note that there are around 23(252 votes)direct or indirect mentions to Heida, Iceland or her style in her last ribbon entry AND that's only from commentors. That's huge. Don't you think there were a multitude of others who saw the same thing?
My happy-go-lucky, easy going, mellow, Up With People, attitude is slowly being tarnished. Just kidding!
;)
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