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12/05/2008 07:13:49 PM · #26 |
Cats CANNOT eat dog food for any extended period of time. (here and here isn't gonna hurt them)
Ash content makes a difference to them as it messes with thier urinary tract. K, looked it up in several places, I can't find any info about it blinding dogs tho. About Ash /edit
However of more concern is Taurine. If there is not Taurine in your cat's food, (a supplement they would normally get from eating raw meat) they can develop a heart condition called Dialated Cardiomyopathy. I had a cat die from this. (Hence I researched it quite thoroghly) Not from it not being in the food but from a defect in his body that made him not absorb it anymore. (Oh we tried! 3 months on heart pills and mega doses of Taurine, most cats don't show any symptoms, they just die) That said, I have changed from Iams to a brand that puts far more Taurine in the cat food after going on a big label reading spree. (not to mention that at some point Iams got fined for not having enough) Taurine is, by law, supposed to be added to all cat food, particularly canned since it is lost in the canning process.
I also decided to cut out grains from their diet. (cats don't eat grains, although dogs will) Came across an nifty cat food called Wellness, Core. Due to the lack of waaaayyyy to many carbohydrates in Core, they are also getting more trim. I turned my veterinarian onto it too and now she is feeding it as well. (instead of an Iams Prescription Diet Food)
Originally posted by togtog:
Thank you for this thread! We have both a cat and dogs and had no idea that such things were toxic. We knew about the chocolate, but onions?
Btw if it hasn't been mentioned I've heard it is toxic for dogs to eat cat food, and viceversa. Something about cats food containing something called ash, and it can cause blindness in dogs. On the other hand cats require the ash for their livers or kidneys to function and without enough of it in their diet can die. |
Edit to add: Animals really should eat foods that are made FOR them. If you feed ground up cows (in dog food) to cows, they can get Mad Cow disease. There is supposed to be some sort of regulation in the feed producers to not include any meats of the same species in the food for that species. Mad Cow disease taught us that. there is a similar disease in sheep, deer and Elk (chronic wasting disease). You maybe should brush up on this info, I've been storing it for a few years and it probably isn't current. (re: cows and chronic wasting disease)
 Ollie.
Message edited by author 2008-12-05 19:29:25.
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12/05/2008 07:30:37 PM · #27 |
Putting a little Cigarette tobacco in dog food was a old time de-wormer.
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12/05/2008 07:33:23 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
Putting a little Cigarette tobacco in dog food was a old time de-wormer. |
That actually works for humans but is a last resort type of survival trick for dealing with unclean water. Personally I just avoid the outdoors, and the water... has suited me just fine so far...
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12/05/2008 10:54:49 PM · #29 |
From here;
The LD50 -- dose at which 1/2 of the dogs exposed to a substance will die --- is about 100mg/kg for chocolate. The dose that causes signs of toxicity, such as excitement, increased urination, muscle tremors and rapid heart rate may occur at a lower dosage.
The other problem with dogs eating chocolate is that a lot of formulations of chocolate are high in fat and dogs often get enteritis or pancreatitis following ingestion of a lot of milk chocolate.
Your dosages of 44mg theobromine/oz for milk chocolate, 150mg/oz for semi-sweet chocolate and 390 mg/oz for baking chocolate match the dosages that I have seen published. Using a dose of 100mg/kg as the toxic dose the toxic dosages per pound of body weight for dogs work out to be roughly:
1 ounce per pound of body weight (2 ounces per kg of body weight) for milk chocolate.
1 ounce per 3 pounds of body weight ( 1 ounce per 1.5 kg body weight) for semi-sweet chocolate
1 ounce per 9 pounds of body weight ( 1 ounce per 4 kg) for baker's chocolate.
So the dosages I am familiar with match what you have included in your email for death by chocolate. Toxic signs may occur at lower dosages. The best estimate that I have seen for this is that clinical signs may develop in some pets with dosages as low as 10% of the LD50 dose.
I have been practicing for 20 years and I do not recall having a patient die from ingestion of chocolate but I have seen some very excited dogs and I have seen some dogs that probably would have died from the secondary enteritis without treatment.
I have talked to veterinarians who feel that they have seen dogs that died from heart problems, pancreatitis or other complications following chocolate ingestion even though the dogs ate less than the theoretical toxic dose.
I think that the chances of causing a toxicity with milk chocolate are very very low and I don't think it is a big deal if my clients share their M&Ms with their pets but semi-sweet chocolate morsels and baker's chocolate should be put where pets and small children aren't likely to find and ingest them.
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12/06/2008 02:24:03 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Ristyz:
Cats CANNOT eat dog food for any extended period of time. (here and here isn't gonna hurt them)
Ash content makes a difference to them as it messes with thier urinary tract. K, looked it up in several places, I can't find any info about it blinding dogs tho. About Ash /edit
However of more concern is Taurine. If there is not Taurine in your cat's food, (a supplement they would normally get from eating raw meat) they can develop a heart condition called Dialated Cardiomyopathy. I had a cat die from this. (Hence I researched it quite thoroghly) Not from it not being in the food but from a defect in his body that made him not absorb it anymore. (Oh we tried! 3 months on heart pills and mega doses of Taurine, most cats don't show any symptoms, they just die) That said, I have changed from Iams to a brand that puts far more Taurine in the cat food after going on a big label reading spree. (not to mention that at some point Iams got fined for not having enough) Taurine is, by law, supposed to be added to all cat food, particularly canned since it is lost in the canning process.
I also decided to cut out grains from their diet. (cats don't eat grains, although dogs will) Came across an nifty cat food called Wellness, Core. Due to the lack of waaaayyyy to many carbohydrates in Core, they are also getting more trim. I turned my veterinarian onto it too and now she is feeding it as well. (instead of an Iams Prescription Diet Food)
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Lack of taurine in a cat's diet can also cause blindness. In addition to Wellness Core, Innova Evo and Before Grain are good grain-free foods, if you don't want to make the leap to a completely raw, carb-free diet for your carnivorous companions. |
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