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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Booo Canon!
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 62, (reverse)
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 07/19/2005 12:01:01 AM · #26
sorry if my post if a bit out of topic but many of you mentioned removing the spot using photoshop, but is that allowed in DPChallenge rules? so how can louddog submit photos in the future?
 07/19/2005 12:03:25 AM · #27
Originally posted by shadow:
sorry if my post if a bit out of topic but many of you mentioned removing the spot using photoshop, but is that allowed in DPChallenge rules? so how can louddog submit photos in the future?

It would not be allowed under basic rules, unless done in-camera. The only way to supress it in-camera would be to turn on dark-frame subtaction, if the camera is capable of that (I believe it is). Normally this function is only available for longer shutter speeds, though.
 07/19/2005 12:10:08 AM · #28
Originally posted by louddog:
Circuit city's retun policy is 14 days. My camera is about 50 days old and I refused the extended warranty yet they were still going to give me a new camera until they realized there are no cameras available in the state.


Perhaps you should have asked how long it would take them to ship one from some other state.... it might have been shorter than the 3 weeks it might take to repair your camera... and you would then have a brand new one.

Just a thought.

Ray
 07/19/2005 12:17:44 AM · #29
Originally posted by louddog:
I'm really sorry if my disatisfaction with Canon bothers or insults you. I'm the customer, it's my camera, I want it fixed. You can think what ever you want, you can have low standards and be happy with defects, but I expect better.


I don't have low standards, but I am also realistic. ALL sensors have bad pixels, the one you found just occurred after it had been mapped out. And you didn't want it fixed, you wanted a new camera.
 07/19/2005 01:51:52 AM · #30
.

Wait till you get the camera back after 2 - 3 weeks and find out they never opened your box. Or call them after 2 weeks to find out they don't know where the camera is. Or have some min wage monkey tech mess it up worse then before you sent it in. All of these have happened to me in the last two years when dealing with Canon only I had a $1500 lens with a flaw in the glass and a $7200 body with a bad sensor.

I hope you didn't send it to the NJ facility.

.
 07/19/2005 02:17:17 AM · #31
Originally posted by louddog:
I'm really sorry if my disatisfaction with Canon bothers or insults you. I'm the customer, it's my camera, I want it fixed. You can think what ever you want, you can have low standards and be happy with defects, but I expect better.


You know what, your responses to me on this really rub me wrong. I tried to offer you some info on what is actually wrong with it, the severity of it, and how to take care of it yourself since you seem unwilling to send your camera off for an unknown period of time while they "repair" it. And I even told you what the repair would be. Your camera isn't defective, and it's not even a problem they put into your camera so you can't necessarily blame Canon. A hot pixel can result from something like a cosmic particle striking the sensor just so. That could have happened during shipping, or while sitting on the shelf at the retailer. The point is it happened at some time after the camera went through it's routine mapping procedure to cancel out any defective pixels the sensor had after production.

If it REALLY bugs you then send it back as they suggested. It's covered under warranty. But giving you a brand new camera, which could just as easily arrive with the same problem for something that you think is a defect but really isn't, is above and beyond what they are required to do. I personally would ignore a single pixel, it's not worth the hassle, and more will develop over time. It would be better to send it in with a month left on the warranty and have them remap pixels. That way you have the cleanest image going into your out of warranty period.

But quit inferring that I'm some kind of person who has low standards and loves defects, that's simply not true.
 07/19/2005 03:27:39 AM · #32
louddog is right in being angry at a multimillion dollar company for acting like a cheapskate
it is an insult to the customer to sell him a defect product and then ask money and then repair the product instead of replacing it

Companies should not get away with this type of attitudes. if they claim to have a quality product and the price to back it up it then stand by your claim
07/19/2005 03:28:30 AM · #33
I think the problem wih this whole thing is the customer service end of the deal. You should not have to call and call and call and run around town to get something like this fixed (especially under warranty and an easy remapping). Just saying deal with it, does no good for anyone. My old Nikon 5700 needed remapping, but I found the software available...or I would have sent it back to. I am now using that camera whil my D70 is in the shop...and guess what? Shitty customer service. 1 month out of warranty and it dies! A camera shouldn't do that! I am paying for the fix, NOW! Then looking at selling it, because of the customer service and them unwilling to listen (I said LISTEN) not just hearing or reading what I say. LISTENING!
On his first call to Canon, they should have said, "Damn! We're sorry, there are inusred shipping labels going into Priority Mail today to you Mr Louddog. Box that little beauty up nice and tight and ready it for the label, and you may be able to hand the box right back to your postman. I will put a priority notice on your account that shows that this is a fast remapping and easy to do, so that we can try to ship it back within the week."
 07/19/2005 03:45:15 AM · #34
First of all, his camera is NOT defective. It has a hot/stuck pixel, which can happen to any of us. Secondly, I don't remember reading that he was told by Canon to just deal with it- that was me who suggested that. They would remap the camera for him if he sends it in, he just doesn't want to send it in. He wants a new camera instead, which just isn't going to happen. A new camera could just as easily get a hot pixel as any other. Chances are if he sent his camera in it WOULD be a real quick turnaround because the fix is trivial. The original poster just doesn't want to go through the hassle of it and doesn't want to hear my suggestions on how to handle it.
 07/19/2005 04:38:58 AM · #35
Could I chuck in my two cents here and summarise to try to stop Dan looking bad - he's given some great advice and you've chucked it in his face because you don't understand the problem.
1) The camera in not defective. The chips are made to an astonishing degree of accuracy and quality control using some incredible technology. One pixel in 8million? Pretty damn good. And as Dan said it could very well be that this pixel was damaged post-factory.
2)Canon have an extremely strict quality control system - that's how they've got their reputation. You would find dead pixels on all their competitors. Also you will find dead pixels on nearly every single LCD monitor.
3) Yes, it's slightly annoying that the pixel is dead but you need to understand the complexity of these things. My 20D has two or three dead pixels and the number increases with time. You'll never notice them unless you zoom in above 100%. My business partners Nikon D100 has countless dead pixels - but we still get along. I'm not saying it's good and it DOES seem like a major fault but to only ever distribute cameras with 100% perfect sensors is simply going to cost the consumer the earth!
4) Why should you get a replacement? You're out of warranty and there's no reason to think that the new camera won't have the same problem. Yes, it did have this defect from the time you bought it but Canon have to rely on the consumer to spot this. As far as they are concerned, every camera that left the factory either had no dead pixels or had them removed at the QA stage. Will you expect to keep sending them back until you get a perfect sensor? You could be waiting a long time!
5) The best way to rectify this is to get the pixel mapped out - and for that you need to send it off to a specialist Canon centre. They've paid for your postage - what's stopping you?

I'm not having a go - I think you just need to get some perspective on what has happened. Yes, it's annoying and Canon have offered to rectify it for you. Simple. They would achieve nothing whatsoever by replacing the camera. You might very well have the same problem with a new camera.

Also, it's very easy to take the wrong idea from email and forum posts. We ARE here to help. If you get the wrong impression from someone's post bear in mind that they've usually written it to help out or make you see the other point of view. Try to bear that in mind otherwise all these threads will just turn into rants and that get's us nowhere.

If it helps, I've had to send my 10D and 20D back to Canon a few time for various things and they've been fine (admittedly in UK). Compared to Sigma, who managed to lose 2 of my lenses and then get them smashed in the return post by not bothering to wrap them right.

I hope this gets resolved for you.
 07/19/2005 04:41:47 AM · #36
Yes, I would say that this camera is "defective." It may be a $500 some dollar camera, a hot or dead pixel is still a defect. If this were a Hasselblad or $5000 plus dollar camera used by a professional, it would be VERY unacceptable.
Now going to what he expects to be done is another thing, but it should be remedied by Canon, it shouldn't be his responsibility to just live with it. If Canon will fix it great, replace it great, but it is still Canon's responsibilty.
If Canon had EXCELLENT customer service, this would never have been discussed. They have sent him shipping labels, which I think is a smart thing to do to try to hasten it's repair and try to keep a customer. But the steps that took to getting to that point should have been done in the first place.
I am reading a book on customer service right now....Customer Satisfaction Is Worthless, Customer Loyalty Is Priceless : How to Make Customers Love You, Keep Them Coming Back and Tell Everyone They Know the title pretty much sums it up. Great read and very interesting.

Message edited by author 2005-07-19 04:44:16.
 07/19/2005 04:54:29 AM · #37
Originally posted by danmurrelljr:
First of all, his camera is NOT defective. It has a hot/stuck pixel, which can happen to any of us.

Exactly.

A similar issue occurs with a lot of LCD monitors, and stuck pixels are considered within manufacturing tolerance (IE. to be expected).
 07/19/2005 05:00:09 AM · #38
For my 2c worth I think this is lack of customer service is world wide, photoraphers here have repair issues with Canon NZ as well, they tend to be slow, My friend ordered a 50mm F1.4 6 weeks ago and is still waiting.
On the Bright side the Minolta service here is brilliant, took a 100mm macro into them, Actually it was a TOKINA ATX. and they had it stripped down cleaned and re collumated on the resolution projectorand shipped back to me in 3 days, Oh and by the way the charge for this $nz 50.00
Go MInolta !!!!
 07/19/2005 05:10:24 AM · #39
Well, we're just stuck in a loop here then aren't we over whether this is a defect or not. I will try to find out the definitive answer and get back to you.
The customer services issue seems separate. I agree, my dealings with customer service (in all areas) have never been good. Apart from Virgin Wines which springs to mind. Outstanding in every way! Sorry, side point...
 07/19/2005 05:42:37 AM · #40
To put this into perspective 1 pixel in 8.2million is 0.0000121% faulty or 99.9999879% manufacturing accuracy. I doubt NASA make components in their space shuttles to that level of accuracy.
Even if Canon were working to a manufacturing tolerence of 99.99% you would expect to see 820 dead pixels.
The OFFICIAL line from Canon (and probably every other manufacturer of imaging chips or LCDs) is that there has to be an acceptable manufacturing tolerence. Otherwise the cost of releasing only 100% perfect chips would be phenomenal.
BTW - I very much doubt that Hasselblad would replace a $5000 camera with one defective pixel. They would probably offer to re-map. Their manufacturing tolerences will be much the same as Canon and they can't be expected to produce 100% perfect chips either.
 07/19/2005 05:47:57 AM · #41
Why doesn't Canon install the remapping software in their cameras if this is a problem with all sensors and LCDs regardless of the manufacturer? I have this capability with my Olympus E-10 and E-20 cameras and I think they are available in the newer E-1 and E-300, both by Olympus too. This is an easy fix that can be done by the consumer.

Message edited by author 2005-07-19 05:48:38.
 07/19/2005 06:04:26 AM · #42
Originally posted by RichT8496:
I doubt NASA make components in their space shuttles to that level of accuracy.


NASA? they are over budgeted and has pulled the hoax of the century when they released the "man on moon" photo of an astronaut standing the flag. That photo was the biggest conspiracy of all time. Search it, evaluate it, and try to think for yourself what is "wrong" about that photo and why it was shot in a studio and not on the moon.
 07/19/2005 06:04:32 AM · #43
It would definitely be a nice feature, Olyuzi. I guess the larger sensor resolution gets the harder it is to do in-camera though?
 07/19/2005 06:40:44 AM · #44
Originally posted by shadow:
Originally posted by RichT8496:
I doubt NASA make components in their space shuttles to that level of accuracy.


NASA? they are over budgeted and has pulled the hoax of the century when they released the "man on moon" photo of an astronaut standing the flag. That photo was the biggest conspiracy of all time. Search it, evaluate it, and try to think for yourself what is "wrong" about that photo and why it was shot in a studio and not on the moon.


Where did that come from?! When did I ever mention that NASA had faked/not faked the lunar landings? I believe I mentioned manufacturing standards of space shuttles which, conspiracy or no conspiracy, HAVE made it into space and most back again. I also personally have my doubts about the lunar landings but how completely off topic, weird and frankly patronizing to bring this up and tell me to "evaluate it, and try to think for yourself"...

You obviously have something to get off your chest here so perhaps you should join a forum somewhere else?!

Yeesh!
 07/19/2005 06:44:54 AM · #45
Originally posted by RichT8496:

Where did that come from?!


whoa, that wasnt aimed at you, btw. just at NASA. lol chill out ppl.
EDIT: i re-read and yes, it does seem like i was replying to you, LMAO. (knock head with spoon)

Message edited by author 2005-07-19 06:48:11.
 07/19/2005 07:07:49 AM · #46
Oke Doke - no harm done

I must admit I was taken aback with your sudden rant about NASA! I was worried I stirred something deep-rooted within you!
 07/19/2005 07:48:50 AM · #47
Just one question! Do you really think that nikon, fuji, olympus, minolta, etc. would react to an issue like this any differently than
canon has?
 07/19/2005 07:55:16 AM · #48
Personally I don't see why you are complaining about having to pay for shipping. Most all companies state on the warranty that you must pay for shipping of a defective product, besides they have sent you the return labels. On the time issue you must understand that Canon has other customers to take care of. It is probably a first come, first serve kinda thing. You shouldn't expect a new camera back. They will always repair and return to you. If they replaced every camera sent back to them defective then I would be buying a lot of refurbished stuff. If you would have noticed this right off which everyone should closely inspect everything they buy promtly once they arrive home. If you would have done that then you would have noticed it within the first few days and took it back to Circuit City. Also remember that Kirbic has already stated that this probably happend AFTER it left Canon.
 07/19/2005 08:01:50 AM · #49
Originally posted by kirbic:
It would be great if the camera manufacturers would provide the mapping function as an on-board function, but for some reason(s) they do not.


My olympus 5050 does have a pixel re-map function in the menu. I've only used it like twice but not because I saw dead pixels or anything, it was when I first got it and didn't know exactly what it did. I'm not sure if it is a bad thing to re-map it often or not so I haven't. Any suggestions?
 07/19/2005 08:13:31 AM · #50
Originally posted by superdave_909:
Just one question! Do you really think that nikon, fuji, olympus, minolta, etc. would react to an issue like this any differently than
canon has?


I do not think that is of relevance for a consumer to tolerate crap customer service
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