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 07/11/2005 12:21:09 PM · #26
If we want classes from professional photographers with degrees and certificates and letters after their names we can pay to attend such classes at our local colleges or sign up to CBT versions on the net.

The idea of this scheme, if I'm presenting it accurately, is to motivate and support small groups of like-minded hobbiests coming together to improve their skills. One or more in each group are taking the role of mentors - this is subtly different from teachers or tutors.

Mentors are simply providing a structure for learning and helping their group work through the learning process. In most cases they are expressly there to improve and learn themselves.

I think it's wrong to make this more than it is - a structured but informal way for DPC members to get more out of an already excellent site.

Message edited by author 2005-07-11 12:22:02.
 07/11/2005 12:26:28 PM · #27
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
This is kind of off-topic, but can I ask why Imagineer's thread "Mentorship - DPC Mentorship threads" was locked?


I was considering joining that one before it got locked. If I can find something I'm good at I might start up my own mentorship program.
 07/11/2005 12:27:55 PM · #28
Originally posted by louddog:
I was considering joining that one before it got locked.

Me too! It was just a bit of fun, mercy!
 07/11/2005 12:31:54 PM · #29
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by louddog:
I was considering joining that one before it got locked.

Me too! It was just a bit of fun, mercy!

Twas hilarious but I suspect someone didn't get or notice the humour and it was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to all the new mentoring threads!
 07/11/2005 12:32:00 PM · #30
Originally posted by aboutimage:
So there is... silly me for not noticing!


ahem.. Not on a public thread

Message edited by author 2005-07-11 12:32:32.
 07/11/2005 12:34:07 PM · #31
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by louddog:
I was considering joining that one before it got locked.

Me too! It was just a bit of fun, mercy!


I didn't lock it, but my guess was that there are already a LOT of these threads, AND they were asked to post in the 'out and about' forum. There are so many of them, that that's ALL that was on the main page and I DO have it set to 30. I had to put them on ignore just so I could have my normal 'forums' back.
 07/11/2005 12:35:25 PM · #32
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
This is kind of off-topic, but can I ask why Imagineer's thread "Mentorship - DPC Mentorship threads" was locked?


I was kind of wondering that, too. I liked it. :)
 07/11/2005 01:12:21 PM · #33
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
This is kind of off-topic, but can I ask why Imagineer's thread "Mentorship - DPC Mentorship threads" was locked?


I was kind of wondering that, too. I liked it. :)


There was already a topic like that, I think that's why they locked it...
 07/11/2005 01:20:25 PM · #34
Originally posted by oOWonderBreadOo:
There was already a topic like that, I think that's why they locked it...

I must have missed that.. What thread was it? I can't find it.. :-/
 07/11/2005 01:21:53 PM · #35
Most of the time SC leaves a message why the thread was locked and a link if it's a dupe thread. Just my $.02 but I think that's a really good practice.
 07/11/2005 01:22:54 PM · #36
Originally posted by louddog:
Most of the time SC leaves a message why the thread was locked and a link if it's a dupe thread. Just my $.02 but I think that's a really good practice.

I was just thinking that.. :-/
 07/11/2005 01:27:12 PM · #37
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
This is kind of off-topic, but can I ask why Imagineer's thread "Mentorship - DPC Mentorship threads" was locked?


busted!

i'll come out. i locked it. i did it because there were already 2 threads going that were complaining about the number of mentor threads and i didn't see a need for a third, mocking one.

normally i do leave a note. in this case i thought i was obvious, though, so i didn't. noting why it is being locked automatically "bumps" the thread, which kind of defeats the purpose of locking it sometimes.

go ahead! tar and feather me! at least it would be punishment in black and white... :P
 07/11/2005 01:29:17 PM · #38
Originally posted by muckpond:
i'll come out. i locked it. i did it because there were already 2 threads going that were complaining about the number of mentor threads and i didn't see a need for a third, mocking one.


Oh, suuuure. You people can have 27 threads for mentorships but we're limited to only two to complain about them? Humph. :P
 07/11/2005 01:30:27 PM · #39
mucky - fair enough.. Heheheh, mk. :-)
 07/11/2005 01:31:58 PM · #40
Originally posted by mk:
Oh, suuuure. You people can have 27 threads for mentorships but we're limited to only two to complain about them? Humph. :P


HEY!!!!

(don't you have work to do on your house?) :P :P :P
 07/11/2005 01:37:46 PM · #41
Originally posted by muckpond:

(don't you have work to do on your house?) :P :P :P


>:[

Yes.
 07/11/2005 01:51:37 PM · #42
Originally posted by hyperfocal:
Originally posted by smilebig4me1x:

Since when do we need a resume to give a comment on what might look better? isnt that what DPC is really all about? the mentors resume is thier portfolio.


Smilebig4me1x,

IMHO they (the mentors) are doing more than commenting on what might look better. Yes, they may have excellent portfolios, but that doesn’t necessarily make them any more knowledgeable than the masses in the SPECIALIZED area under their particular mentoring topic.

For example an instructor in landscapes might just have incredible post processing skills that have made up for a mere mediocre talent in actual landscape photography. (I just pulled that out of my hat. I haven’t looked at any of the landscape photographer’s portfolios). I have been to several traditional photography workshops over the years, and there is a reason that vast majority use chromes. It is to see the image capture as what it is, the most important aspect of photography.

I just hate to see bad advice given to people who are eagerly trying to become better photographers. I have seen some great advice given and some terrible advice given in the forums, and just thought the uneducated needed more than a few pretty pictures as proof that they were getting good advice.

Steven


i've never claimed to be an expert at anything. what i can do, though, is give an opinion and advice based on my photographic experience in an attempt to help someone. i think my portfolio (as well as all the other "mentor's" portfolios)is enough of a resume. if no one likes the advice i give, they're more than welcome to tell me to go jump in a lake. :)
 07/11/2005 02:05:38 PM · #43
All this reminds me of a bunch of old people sitting around in a room they have been in for years. Post a topic that has anything to do with photography at all and the most likely response is a link pointing to someplace off-site or to a thread that has been dead for a year or more and then the thread dies. Post a picture and maybe one or two will rouse out of their slumber long enough to grunt a response before the thread dies. It seems the only thing that gets any a fire lit at all are the whining threads -- complain about the voting, the commenting, the rules or even the participation or others and the thread is likely to go to several pages quickly. Now, there are these groups of people making a commotion in a little used corner of the rooom and the old people just want some peace and quite so they can take a nap.

Just what is the problem, the threads...
... are not scattered all over the place.
... they are each on a different topic (although some do overlap a bit).
... they have active participation by several users of the site.
... there has been no complaining or name-calling in them.
... individuals are getting to know one another.

The main complaint seems to be the limited number of people that can post to them. Granted that is not the norm for forum threads, but it is little different than having an entire forum that only some can participate in. But the 'enrollment' has to be kept small -- how many people can you have a meaningful conversation with at the same time? Robert's 'Natural Light' Focus Group is the only one I've seen officially closed -- 13 was all he felt he could handle. If you want to participate in any of the others, PM the mentor (moderater seems a better description of the role) -- they will likely let you in. But even if it is full, the membership will rotate around. Once the group has reached as far as it can go, the group will change -- one at a time or by disbanding and reforming. There has been talk of writing up summaries of the group discussions to be placed in the Learn section (we hope) for use in future groups. But all this is way down the road, we don't even know how many of the groups can be sustained long enough to make it that far (some probably won't). As with all new things, it started with a flurry of activity and built up quickly, but the test of organization and staying power is yet to come.

Personally, I participate in one and have been lurking in all the rest -- that will probably change as I just don't have enough time to keep up with all of them. Sure I can't participate directly in most of them, but I can comment on the photos if I wish -- as long as I put it on the photo page -- and I can PM any of the members if I have a question or suggestion (have already done so).

The GTG threads that I have no way to participate in, the lens threads that are not applicable to a person with a fixed lens camera, the score threads when I don't have a picture submitted and many other types of threads -- all of which amount to just so much background noise for me while I'm in the forums. But they all have a purpose for the community as a whole. So do these groups. Many say they want more going on in the Learn menu, but little gets done -- these have the potential to change that. Give it a bit of time.

David
 07/11/2005 02:10:18 PM · #44
Originally posted by Britannica:
The main complaint seems to be the limited number of people that can post to them.


Actually that's not a valid complaint anymore because SC won't stop anyone from posting.
 07/11/2005 02:21:53 PM · #45
Originally posted by louddog:
Actually that's not a valid complaint anymore because SC won't stop anyone from posting.


no, but speaking as a "mentor" i would hope that people are courteous enough to read the threads and, if there isn't room in the group, send a PM to the leader of that particular group if they have a question or comment.

i have told my peeps (and anyone listening) that i would truly love to involve as many people as possible, and i have prepped my inbox for a flood of PMs for people with questions. those with good points will be posted directly to the thread for the benefit of everyone.

SO even though we're asking people to refrain from posting so much, i think hiding the threads and ignoring the useful information they contain is unfortunate. there's going to be SO much that everyone can learn...

Message edited by author 2005-07-11 14:22:40.
 07/11/2005 06:06:00 PM · #46
What I have a tiny problem with is that all the current mentorship threads are "full" at the request of their mentors, and thus those of us who didn't get on board this boat in the first two or three days are kind of just left to read with no invitation to participate. And, there is no "time limit", so I would assume that all of you who were lucky enough to be accepted will just go the duration, which means that the rest of us have to find someone else to be our mentor if we're going to have one, which is, I must admit, just a little bit disappointing to me.

Yeah, I'm whining, sorry :) It's a cool thing, I just don't think that it's going to be as effective as it could be. I also think it furthers the clique problem.

But, thanks a billion to you guys who are mentoring. It's great of you to be helpful, and even as a non-participant, I do want to be appreciative of your effort.
 07/11/2005 06:09:44 PM · #47
Well, if you are interested in a secion, pm the mentor..they may allow u to sit in on the thread and help now and then as they can.

Originally posted by nards656:
What I have a tiny problem with is that all the current mentorship threads are "full" at the request of their mentors, and thus those of us who didn't get on board this boat in the first two or three days are kind of just left to read with no invitation to participate. And, there is no "time limit", so I would assume that all of you who were lucky enough to be accepted will just go the duration, which means that the rest of us have to find someone else to be our mentor if we're going to have one, which is, I must admit, just a little bit disappointing to me.

Yeah, I'm whining, sorry :) It's a cool thing, I just don't think that it's going to be as effective as it could be. I also think it furthers the clique problem.

But, thanks a billion to you guys who are mentoring. It's great of you to be helpful, and even as a non-participant, I do want to be appreciative of your effort.
07/11/2005 06:10:30 PM · #48
Originally posted by nards656:
What I have a tiny problem with is that all the current mentorship threads are "full" at the request of their mentors, and thus those of us who didn't get on board this boat in the first two or three days are kind of just left to read with no invitation to participate. And, there is no "time limit", so I would assume that all of you who were lucky enough to be accepted will just go the duration, which means that the rest of us have to find someone else to be our mentor if we're going to have one, which is, I must admit, just a little bit disappointing to me.

Yeah, I'm whining, sorry :) It's a cool thing, I just don't think that it's going to be as effective as it could be. I also think it furthers the clique problem.

But, thanks a billion to you guys who are mentoring. It's great of you to be helpful, and even as a non-participant, I do want to be appreciative of your effort.


A lot of the mentors have stated that they will accept PMs from un-official students and answer the questions in the thread.
 07/11/2005 06:18:38 PM · #49
Originally posted by cpanaioti:


A lot of the mentors have stated that they will accept PMs from un-official students and answer the questions in the thread.


Which, again, is a superhuman and commendable effort on their part. It still doesn't include the "outsiders" in the "sense of community" and "getting to know each other" that is a part of this type thing.

I guess what I'm trying to point out is that there are probably a LOT more of us who would like to BE mentored than feel that we ARE a mentor, so the teacher/student ratio gets out of hand pretty quick. Classic public education problem. What about new site members? They are going to be "left out" of the mentorship program altogether, unless they are good enough to BE a mentor, which would be nice.

Looks to me like we need "MULTIPLE" classrooms, but we've already seen a pretty good batch of complaints about what we already have.

Sorry, I'm just feeling left out. I usually get over those feelings fairly quickly, but they sting while I have them.......... :)
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