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06/29/2005 10:32:20 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by saracat:
I think a lot of the reason that people don't leave specific suggestions for improvement is that they tend to get a lot of backtalk:
'How dare you suggest that my whatsit isn't perfect!' or 'I meant to do it that way and if you don't get my artistic vison then you're >insert your own euphemismIt's the reason so many of the voters are putting sacks on their head during voting.
Personally, I don't look for specific and constructive feedback during the challenges. I think that when most people vote/comment, they're giving you their initial reaction and they don't take the time during a challenge to sit back and say, hmmmm, what could make this photo better and how could I word it so I don't offend this person?
They'd never get through! So if I want detailed input, I'll post in the forum after the challenge. You're more likely to get the help you want that way instead of relying on the wonderful (and very few) people like stdavidson.
Just a thought...
Sara |
I agree. Most times I do the same. Like my "framed" pic. I put it in a forum and asked, "What was wrong with it?" Wah! lol :) When I looked at the other metal pics, oh, I knew mine was boring in comparison. But they were my daughter's new glasses, and we all thought they were cool. :)
So shadow ... you really got a thing for coke bottles? rofl! |
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06/29/2005 10:32:45 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
All those violent agreements going on and such. |
Pardon, but did you really mean "violent agreements"? |
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06/29/2005 10:33:33 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Mmmm...Kalamata Olives!
I love Kalamata Olives...Ah-liv...I luv...I love....
(Phonically pleasing those olives....) |
i think i like Popeye more than Olives....
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06/29/2005 10:34:03 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
All those violent agreements going on and such. |
Pardon, but did you really mean "violent agreements"? |
It's amazing how two (or more) people can say the same thing using different words and come to blows over it!!
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06/29/2005 10:36:02 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by LadeeM:
So shadow ... you really got a thing for coke bottles? rofl! |
shhh.... you didnt hear me say that... you didnt hear me say that.... you didnt hear me say that..... (and here's a 100 bucks into your paypal account) |
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06/29/2005 10:38:04 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by shadow:
you didnt hear me say that..... (and here's a 100 bucks into your paypal account) |
My lips are sealed ... :) |
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06/29/2005 11:10:16 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by rlinn3:
I just ignore the negative people, it does me no good to worry about them. I do this for a living and I know what pays my bills. I joined because it is different from what I normally do, so it's fun to try to take a particular pic thats not a wedding, portrait or photojournalism work. Let the negative people, and people who don't like a little noise, etc. vote you low and ignore them. Keep on smiling and enjoy this site for what it is and what you can learn from it. |
i totally understand where your coming from.. but for people like me, just starting out, those comments sometimes cut VERY deep....i must admit, when a sarcastic negative coment comes in i do take it to heart, i really think most people do... yer i get over it, but it can sometimes make or break my day....
just my 2 c worth on trying to improve, don't get me wrong im not that immature where i don't appreciate critisim, but i'd rather it be constructive, which is why i joined here in the first place, if i wanted to recieve sarcatic comments on my work, i don't need to pay for that, i have three teenage kids at home that do it for free......
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06/30/2005 12:26:13 AM · #83 |
Originally posted by louddog:
If I see one more thread about how we are all a bunch of close minded, narrow, shallow people that can't vote or comment correctly I'm going to go nuts. Is there something in the water? What is going on? |
Seems to me that the people complaining about everybody else being close-minded are themselves close-minded to seeing things from the other's perspective. Just goes to show that we are all close-minded when it comes to the things we disagree with, don't believe in, don't like, etc. We are, on the other hand, very open minded when it comes to the things we do like, do believe in, and do agree with. It, like most things, is simply a matter of perspective!
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06/30/2005 12:30:34 AM · #84 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
What's going on is that a lot of perfectly fine photos are getting votes of 3/4/5 when the probably deserve votes of 5/6/7. |
Now it is up to the voter to determine what he/she feels the image is worth. Just because I think something fits the challenge and is something I like (and therefore give it a higher score) doesn't mean that someone else (or anyone else for that matter) will agree with me. So to say it got a 3 but deserved a 7 is moot. You think it deserved a 7, give it a 7 and not a 3 and don't complain that someone else gave it a 3. Their taste and interpretation could be drastilly different.
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06/30/2005 12:40:39 AM · #85 |
Originally posted by chafer:
Yes, I think A LOT of close-minded people know they are close-minded. Opinions are important. I'm not saying we should have a lame voting system like the one you proposed (i.e. 1-BAD 10-GOOD). Part of the problem with this site is that there are a lot of people who are very involved and others are are extremely detached...but all of them are voting on the same pictures. Like everyone else, I get good and bad comments on my pictures. However, a lot of the "bad" comments that I get are very negative...over the top. Just like some of you are sick of hearing me talk about close-mindedness (this is the first time I have ever commented on that), I am sick of people being so negative with their scoring and comments. If you don't like a picture, you don't have to say, "This picture is terrible. It has nothing to do with the challenge." A simple, "This picture doesn't really work for me" would work a lot better. |
The way I see this site is as a community to help one another improve their photography. I some one says to you "This picture doesn't really work for me" how is that going to help you evaluate your image? If they give you a low score and then proceede to tell you it was because they didn't see the connection to the challange or any of a million different reasons it at least give you information to help you on the next image. I wouldn't necisarilly take it as negative (unless they are hurling accusation about you family heritage and the like). I would suggest looking at the comments in a constructive manner and try to use them to help, as I would assume that is what the majority are intended to do. |
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06/30/2005 12:54:58 AM · #86 |
Originally posted by roadrunner:
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by chafer:
I associate the low scores with close-mindedness. |
Based on this:
Challenges Entered: 30
Votes Cast: 2444
Avg Vote Cast: 4.9349
Votes Received: 7517
Avg Vote Received: 5.2665
# Comments:Made: 6
# Helpful: 4
# Received: 330
you yourself are closed-minded. An average vote cast of 4.9 says you think more than not either don't meet the challenge or are not good. You don't comment - only 6 in 30 challenges. Not much to be starting a thread like this over and hardly enough to be criticizing anyone elses comments - good, bad or indifferent. What are you really angry at? lack of a ribbon? Not doing better? Why make an excuse? Tell the truth. Your argument doesn't hold water against your record. |
my average vote is low as well, but i can tell you i very rarely give 3's or 4's... so i know from personal experinece he may not ALWAYS vote low, and regarding commenting, some of us are actually on three or more photography sites, not just this one, and to be able to sit here ALL day and comment would be great, but unfortunately this is not always possible....
i am a little surprised where this thread has gone, so many angry people, i thought it started off as a disscussion between some 'same minded' people who thought the same thing as chafer, looks like some people got on the defensive side... i'm also not as addicted as a lot of you are to the update button, and really don't get upset if i only get in the 4's, but what is upsetting is how some people word their comments, they can really come across very negative... |
Seems to me that the angry folks are the ones running around calling every one that give them a low score closed minded. Love your art! But don't go through life thinking that everyone else will. Some will, some won't. Accept it and move on. If you can glean a little insight to improve your art along the way then more power to you. Just accept that people are going to vote the way they vote.
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06/30/2005 01:00:41 AM · #87 |
Originally posted by peterish:
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Anybody tried those Blue Cheese stuffed olives? |
cheese with olives O.o
people spread cheese/butter on EVERYTHING these days; sure it tastes good but it ain't friends with our thighs and bellies. :( |
My college roommate's mom used to make these cheesy-olive biscuits. Man were they good! Mmmm...I need to call for the recipe. |
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06/30/2005 01:07:45 AM · #88 |
Originally posted by AllgoodPics:
Originally posted by roadrunner:
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by chafer:
I associate the low scores with close-mindedness. |
Based on this:
Challenges Entered: 30
Votes Cast: 2444
Avg Vote Cast: 4.9349
Votes Received: 7517
Avg Vote Received: 5.2665
# Comments:Made: 6
# Helpful: 4
# Received: 330
you yourself are closed-minded. An average vote cast of 4.9 says you think more than not either don't meet the challenge or are not good. You don't comment - only 6 in 30 challenges. Not much to be starting a thread like this over and hardly enough to be criticizing anyone elses comments - good, bad or indifferent. What are you really angry at? lack of a ribbon? Not doing better? Why make an excuse? Tell the truth. Your argument doesn't hold water against your record. |
my average vote is low as well, but i can tell you i very rarely give 3's or 4's... so i know from personal experinece he may not ALWAYS vote low, and regarding commenting, some of us are actually on three or more photography sites, not just this one, and to be able to sit here ALL day and comment would be great, but unfortunately this is not always possible....
i am a little surprised where this thread has gone, so many angry people, i thought it started off as a disscussion between some 'same minded' people who thought the same thing as chafer, looks like some people got on the defensive side... i'm also not as addicted as a lot of you are to the update button, and really don't get upset if i only get in the 4's, but what is upsetting is how some people word their comments, they can really come across very negative... |
Seems to me that the angry folks are the ones running around calling every one that give them a low score closed minded. Love your art! But don't go through life thinking that everyone else will. Some will, some won't. Accept it and move on. If you can glean a little insight to improve your art along the way then more power to you. Just accept that people are going to vote the way they vote. |
it seems a lot of you missed the point.... i for one havne't said i am angry that noone likes my photos, gee i m a big girl.. i know you can't please everybody, what we are saying is some people need to open up more and 'look' at the photo, as they are simply not reading what the photographer intended, ive had photos where my title told you what it was, and still got comments saying that didn't 'get' it.....
i also am saying i love the critisim, but please, be constructive with it and not so rude.... a simple 'what's this got to do with anything' is NOT constructive..........i don't need to go through the kind of comments we get , you all know what they are.....
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06/30/2005 01:47:47 AM · #89 |
Originally posted by saracat:
b)not all users of this site feel that they have to sugar-coat their comments. We are not all children here, and as adults, we should be able to accept that not everyone will agree with our vision or opinion, and we should be able to step back from our immediate reactions and think before we really get into it over something that may not be as bad as we first thought. |
You describe me in my commenting style and why I refuse to change it! If my negative comments help one out of a hundred people to improve it's worth the five people I pissed off and the 90 that got irritated...
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06/30/2005 03:13:20 AM · #90 |
What is you purpose in making a comment? Is it to help the person become a better photographer, or show off your own knowledge?
If it is the former, then isn't to offer your comments in such a way as to ASSURE 90% of the people will ignore them a waste of your time? It's all very well to say that people should be "able to take it" but if they won't, you have a choice of making comments which will be ignored, or changing your commenting style to suit the way the majority thinks they should be presented.
It's all very fine to stand on principle, but the "principle" here seems to be more one of insistence on a personal style than any truly ethical or practical consideration. And teachers who use a "my way or the highway" approach are rarely popular nor effective.
Message edited by author 2005-06-30 03:15:02. |
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06/30/2005 03:58:00 AM · #91 |
Ken walks into this late and reads dang near the whole entertaining thread and sees a strange, but not unusual, intertwining of unrelated topics: comments and olives...
To slip in my 2 cents here - I am soooooo irritated at the misuse of the term "closed-minded" - bear_music seems to have provided the only semi-accurate example- a woman who hates ALL olives for no apparent logical reason. Even in her case though, we don't know that she hasn't tried every variety and recipe and hasn't puked blood every time.
My point as it relates to commenters is that you, the reviewee, have no idea what all the commenter took into consideration when making those comments, yet the label "closed-minded" is used to describe the commenter's personality, not their comments.
I guess my position (aside from banning comments on comments) is that people should address the comments themselves and not draw broad conclusions and attack the commenter with derogatory labels.
It seems the site provides an effective enough tool - if you find someone's comments helpful, check that little box. If not, don't check it. Feel free to disregard or ignore anything you don't like, but first be sure you're not just having an over-reaction or missing some potential constructive lesson from it.
To the one (I can't remember and too tired to look it up) who said closed-minded people know they are... Bwahahahaha! That cracks me up. Setup a poll: Do you consider yourself closed minded? - see how many answer "yes" :P
Sorry for rambling - that was at least 8 pennies worth.
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06/30/2005 04:44:36 AM · #92 |
| I would like to invite everyone to check out my stats. I have entered 7 challenges(not counting current). I have ranked in the 80's on the percentile with all my standard "normal" shots. My 3 more risky shots including suicide, concaine, and the finger found in the wendy's chili thing have all received drastically lower ratings. I have trouble being subjective with my own art at times but I do find it hard to beleive that the reason for the lower scores are from my skill level fluctuating or that I didn't meet the challenge in others eyes. It just has to do with the subject matter. Or am I just paranoid. Let me know. Not ranting or anything. Just noticed a trend. |
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06/30/2005 04:56:15 AM · #93 |
Originally posted by danderson107:
My 3 more risky shots including suicide, concaine, and the finger found in the wendy's chili thing have all received drastically lower ratings. I have trouble being subjective with my own art at times but I do find it hard to beleive that the reason for the lower scores are from my skill level fluctuating or that I didn't meet the challenge in others eyes. It just has to do with the subject matter. Or am I just paranoid. Let me know. Not ranting or anything. Just noticed a trend. |
Of course subject matter has a value in the scoring. If it turns people off or if they are highly or even slightly sensitive to it, they will ding you (or maybe hammer you) for it and that is reasonable and logical - it is a major part of your presentation and it cannot be parsed out or excluded from personal judgement. Submit a technically perfect photo of a fresh pile of dog crap - maybe zoom in on the flies to add some interest - see what kind of score it gets in anything but a dog crap challenge.
Hmmm... I'm off to the Challenge Suggestion forum! :P
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06/30/2005 04:59:03 AM · #94 |
If you don't like the way many people comment and post, why not lead by example and make a few of the kind of comments you'd like to see others making more of?
Oh if someone thinks someone else is talking out of their backside that does NOT necessarily mean they are taking the initial post personally but that they think it's plain rubbish.
It makes me laugh big time that one can post doing pretty much what one is complaining about other people doing and then dismiss any counter arguments as petty repostes from people feeling personally angry about what was said!
Message edited by author 2005-06-30 05:00:33.
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06/30/2005 05:02:38 AM · #95 |
Originally posted by danderson107:
... |
(sorry for jumping over you Kavey)
Side note, David - I noticed you didn't mark any of the comments received on your entry during the Granular challenge entry as helpful, yet many appear to me to be helpful - just curious - oversight?
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06/30/2005 05:06:12 AM · #96 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
(sorry for jumping over you Kavey) |
You can jump on me anytime... oh, wait, you said "over". Darn. Oh well... carry on. Nothing to see here.
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06/30/2005 09:12:56 AM · #97 |
Something else to think about: What do you do when you receive one of those infuriating comments?
A) Immediatly send a flaming PM telling the commenter where he/she can stick it.
B) Take offense and run to the forums to post about how this commenter is rude/hurtful/inappropriate/stupid.
C) Ignore the comment entirely.
D) Step back from the situation and think. Perhaps send a polite PM requesting explanation/enlightenment.
I know that I have been guilty of at least one of these since I began here, and in all fairness, I completely understand how it feels to get one of those comments. However (mostly due to events that have recently occurred in my life to give me some perspective), I have come to the conclusion that C and D are perhaps the best way to go.
And before anyone gives me a line about how they tried D and didn't get anywhere, just keep a list of people that don't respond/continue to be rude and don't PM them anymore.
As I said before, we are (mostly) adults here, and as adults should have enough life experience to know how to interact with others. For those that can't/won't, well, they're missing out on a really great aspect of this site.
Besides, life is too precious to tie up so much emotion in one little comment.
Sara
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06/30/2005 09:32:49 AM · #98 |
I just wanna win ribbons ... lotsa ribbons ... i want the profile pages to be changed because the sheer number of ribbons i have will force a person to scroll for an hour and a half just to get to the bottom of the list.
Not sure what category that puts me in, but I do submit photos with the above in mind. As well as my "60, 6, and 6" goal (60 or more challenges, average score over a 6, 6 or more ribbons).
I love the competition. I love it that Jacko's probably gonna wail on us in the macro challenge, but I wanna compete against him anyway - it's fun for me, even when I lose :) |
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06/30/2005 10:23:54 AM · #99 |
Originally posted by hopper:
I just wanna win ribbons ... lotsa ribbons ... |
All you need to do is incorporate a naked girl, wet leaves and a fake sky all in one photo. (Note, patiently waiting for Ken's take on this)
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06/30/2005 10:26:05 AM · #100 |
My $0.02...
1) I never met an olive that I didn't like.
2) I heard a funny comment on TV the other day. It went something like, "We should all be more open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains fall out." Applying that to the voting situation here one might say it as, "Try to be open-minded about the photo, but if you just can't find a way to like it, tell them why you don't like it."
3) Regarding Sara's comment...
Originally posted by saracat:
As I said before, we are (mostly) adults here, and as adults should have enough life experience to know how to interact with others. For those that can't/won't, well, they're missing out on a really great aspect of this site. |
We are not all adults here. There are a lot of very young people here too. And, not all adults are actually as adult as you might hope. Some adults can be very immature, just as some young people can be very mature. It took me a while to realize this--probably because I still haven't accepted the fact that I'm an 'old' guy now. Once I did realize it though it became easier to ignore the negative, childish comments.
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