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06/14/2005 05:09:02 PM · #101 |
Originally posted by pawdrix: Yeah...I got it. Like anything that's not terribly huge or significant to the photo on the whole. |
That's pretty much it. You could take out a helicopter as long as it isn't a large thing in the foreground or a significant part of the composition or content (like a bunch of people pointing at it). |
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06/14/2005 05:12:57 PM · #102 |
Originally posted by scalvert: [quote=pawdrix] (like a bunch of people pointing at it). |
...but like ummm...errrrr if only one person was pointing at it...would that be ok???
LOL....just kidding. Thanx for the clarification.
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06/14/2005 05:21:05 PM · #103 |
Originally posted by coolhar: ...your interpretation could be quite different than mine, but at least we would be trying to reach a consensus in our interpretations of something that is more concrete than intent or visualization, and we'd have the original image file to help us. |
That's pretty much what we do already. As noted earlier, decisions are NOT based upon intent or visualization. The original image is our primary guide for validatation. If the final entry is achieved within the rules, then it will be deemed legal.
Originally posted by coolhar: Maybe it would help to clearify things if you... would restate the reasons you took on this revision, and what you are looking for as the outcome of it. |
We're simply trying to better define some gray areas in the existing rules. Hopefully we can gain a little more understanding on these issues without further restricting creative freedom. I should point out that while there aren't any major changes involved, clearer wording will help the SC be more consistent with validations. Thus, some borderline cases that squeaked through in past challenges might be DQ'd with the new wording in future challenges.
Originally posted by coolhar: Several of us, including Britanica, bear_music, myself and others have made comments and suggestions and have gotten confusing responses in return. |
If you get a confusing response, please point it out and/or ask additional questions.
Originally posted by coolhar: Are we wasting our time in trying to understand and/or help in this effort? |
Of course not. This was an open request for comment. All opinions are welcome and will be considered in the final draft.
Message edited by author 2005-06-14 17:32:14. |
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06/14/2005 05:24:24 PM · #104 |
Originally posted by pawdrix: ...if only one person was pointing at it...would that be ok??? |
Maybe or maybe not depending upon the image. That's why the SC has to vote on them. If the one person is wearing a t-shirt that says, "Oh my gosh! Look at that space where a helicopter used to be!" then it might be headed for DQ. ;-P |
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07/05/2005 09:20:08 AM · #105 |
Any support for this idea (radical as it may sound at first blush?):
Maybe it's time to consider just a single set of editing rules. Abolish "Basic" and allow advanced editing as outlined in the rules on all entries. |
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07/05/2005 09:27:21 AM · #106 |
Hi Ray - I thought 'Basic' was in place to kind of level the playing field for those just starting out and may not have the post-processing skills yet?
I think if 'Basic' goes away it could turn away some potential members? JMO
Originally posted by 4N4M: Any support for this idea (radical as it may sound at first blush?):
Maybe it's time to consider just a single set of editing rules. Abolish "Basic" and allow advanced editing as outlined in the rules on all entries. |
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07/05/2005 09:32:46 AM · #107 |
Originally posted by muckpond: this line is in the existing rules:
(Be aware that extensively altering the "look" of your photograph with an "effects" filter is often not well received by voters.)
it's not meant to be subjective; just a warning. we really just re-worded what was already there. |
I've been curious about this since joining (i.e., why two sets of rules). That does make sense to me; I can definitely understand wanting to keep a challenge with Basic Editing in place.
On the other hand, I'm also curious about why there are any limitations on advanced editing. I understand that some people object to "digital art" as opposed to photography, but it seems they could vote down anything they see as too manipulated. On the other hand, some of the calls (like the recently dq'd image from leading lines) have meant that truly beautiful photographs have been dq'd.
If we're all (or at least some of us, like me) are trying to learn to create a beautiful, finished image, then I don't see why we can't be learning to manipulate the image in the perfect way, to end up with something that would sell to stock agencies, galleries or just look good in a frame in our own house. I don't get why we have to limit ourselves to a set of rules that may prevent us from "finishing" the image.
Am I alone? |
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07/05/2005 09:56:55 AM · #108 |
Originally posted by Bebe: I'm also curious about why there are any limitations on advanced editing. |
The purpose of Advanced Editing is to allow you to bring out the full potential of your original capture. It is NOT meant as free rein to create whatever image you want regardless of the captured photo. This is, first and foremost, a site devoted to learning about digital cameras. The digital darkroom does have its place, but on this site it's a finishing touch rather than a starting point once you snap the shutter. |
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07/05/2005 12:55:40 PM · #109 |
I don't know whether this will be useful, but I had a go at re-writing the part of the rules (from the start to the end of the image modification section) in a style that I would find easier to interpret. In particular, I like the use of a principle (or set of principles) by which the remainder of the rules could be interpreted.
I am aware that there may be a preference for a gradual shift in the rules, on the "why change if not broken" principle, but this is often done at the expense often of clarity (by result of accumulation of rules). If greater clarity is the main aim, a bolder set of amendments such as these suggested amendments may be of more use.
This was interesting to do, both as a way to think about rules and what we consider photography. Please feel free to use and/or ignore any part of my suggestion!
My version:
_________________________________________
DPChallenge Rules
The DPChallenge Rules may be modified by the "Extra Rules" section of the challenge details in respect of that challenge. The Site Council may, in their absolute discretion, disapply one or more rules in respect of any photograph.
Adjudication
All disqualifications are determined by the majority vote of the Site Council. The members of the Site Council will use their reasonable judgment when exercising their vote and take into account the advanced editing principles when interpreting the advanced editing rules. The Site Council will include their reasons for disqualifying a photograph with the disqualification notice.
Advanced Editing Principles
It is a principle of the advanced editing rules that that processing of a photograph should not introduce, remove or obscure key elements of the original photograph. For these purposes, "key elements" are elements of the photograph that, if present in their unaltered form, would be part of the subject matter of the photograph. Whether part of a photograph is a key element and whether it has been introduced, removed or obscured will be subjective matters, which will be decided by the Site Council in their absolute discretion when authenticating the winning photographs or as part of any disqualification determination.
You should be aware that whether an element is a "key element" is not necessarily determined by size or by its position in the photograph. Whether an element has been introduced, removed or obscured is not necessarily dependent on the post processing tool or process used.
[Examples?]
Subject Matter
Works of Art - Literal photographic representations of existing works of art (including your own) are prohibited. A "work of art" includes, but is not limited to, paintings, sculptures, photographs, drawings, or computer artwork. A "literal photographic representation" is a reproduction of a work of art that does not demonstrate the photographer's influence in some way, such as, but not limited to, through creative lighting or composition, using unusual viewpoints, or by adding additional elements. The prohibition applies whether the photograph is of the original or taken through some other medium, such as by photographing an image displayed on a computer monitor or television screen.
Nudity - Nudity is an acceptable form of art on this site. Photographs may not, however, show male or female genitalia or any acts of sex.
Taking the Photograph
Single Photograph - An entry must be the result of a single photograph taken during the specified challenge timeframe. For these purposes, a "single photograph" is a single electronic file created on a digital camera's memory that includes a single set of EXIF data.
File Info - The camera used to take the photograph must be capable of storing EXIF data and this feature must be turned on. The camera must be set to the correct local time of the location indicated in your profile.
Other Equipment - There is no other restriction on the equipment used to take the photograph (including, but not limited to, lenses, glass filters, tripods, telescopes, etc).
Post Processing the Image
Any image manipulation software may be used to process the photograph for submission. References to software tools in this section relate to names for tools used in Adobe Photoshop, but the same rules apply to tools with similar effect in other software packages.
Permitted Actions
The following processing is permitted to the extent that it does not contravene the advanced editing principles. The processing may be applied to the whole photograph or part of it (for example, by use of a selection tool).
Any manipulation of the image that is or can be carried out by the camera used to take the photograph is permitted.
The photograph may be cropped to any proportion (but so that it ultimately complies with the submission requirements). The proportions of a photograph may be adjusted (such as by skewing the image).
The photograph may be saturated, desaturated or its hues shifted in any manner. It may be manipulated by adjustment for contrast and brightness, using curves or levels, using tools (including but not limited to cloning, dodging, or burning), or by the application of filters. The application of filters includes the use of any sharpening and blurring filter.
The photograph may be manipulated using layers, layer masks and alternative layer modes. These may be combined in any manner.
Prohibited Actions
The photograph may not be manipulated in a manner that contravenes the advanced editing principles.
The resulting image may not include any elements that were not in the original photograph. Prohibited actions include, but are not limited to, the inclusion of text, more than one image (for example, a triptych), multiple exposures, clip art, computer-rendered images, or any part of any other photograph (even if taken or created during the challenge week).
The prohibition on the inclusion of text means that challenge entries may not include a copyright statement.
Submitting the Photograph
Any photograph submitted to a challenge must be taken with a digital camera and must follow these standards for submission:
File Format - JPEG (.jpg)
File Size - No larger than 150 KB (153,600 bytes).
Dimension: No dimension may be shorter than 160 pixels or longer than 640 pixels.
Exposure Date - Your photograph must be taken after the challenge is announced. The challenge deadlines correspond to the Current Server Time. All dates shown on the DPC web page are based on the Current Server Time, which can be found at the bottom of any page on DPChallenge. The server time corresponds with US Eastern Standard/Daylight Time. If your photo was taken in a different location than indicated in your profile, you should include relevant details in the submission form so that any time zone differences can be taken into account.
Original - The photograph must not have previously been entered into a previous challenge, even if cropped or processed differently.
Ownership - The photograph you enter must be taken and post-processed by you. You may let someone else press the shutter if you are unable to, but you must be the one who set up the shot and configured the camera. If you wish to collaborate with others when creating your submission, you must obtain express permission from the administrators beforehand.
All photographs submitted as challenge entries are submitted subject to the DPChallenge Terms of Use and must comply with the DPChallenge Rules. Any photograph that does not comply with the DPChallenge Rules may be disqualified.
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