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05/16/2005 08:18:41 PM · #1 |
I'm considering how to advise my father on buying a camera, who shoots very differently from myself, so I thought I'd ask for thoughts here. What he would want to see in a camera:
Large enough to be comfortable in the hands (he can't stand all the miniaturized electronics nowadays), but not so heavy as to give you a headache or shoulder cramp if you spent several hours hiking with it on a neck strap. A 20D with L-series glass is going to be much heavier than he wants to deal with, for instance.
He probably won't want to deal with sensor cleaning or even the complexity of changing lenses at all, either. This doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be a fixed-lens or point-and-shoot, but he wouldn't ever travel with more than one lens on the body, so there wouldn't be much point in spending extra for a system with a removable lens.
Good zoom range. Something in the 28-200 35mm equivalent area would be ideal, or at least 28-135. Going with an integrated lens and a smaller sensor would allow this to be a lot lighter, which he'd appreciate. Wider would be even better, as he likes to take wide-angle shots, though various magic photo-stitching software applications may be enough.
Image stabilization not required, but the lens should be reasonably fast all the way through (f/2.8-f/3.5 area).
Good sharpening/color balance/contrast options in-camera. He doesn't want to do post-processing at all. It should be fairly sharp shooting straight to jpg, which may mean that Canons aren't a good idea, since they're a bit soft by default, though I had been looking at the high-end Powershots.
Low noise through a good ISO range (ideally at least up to ISO 800, though realistically it may not be possible to find a camera with all of the above that goes above 400 at all).
Being able to take an external flash is a bonus, but not required. He probably wouldn't carry it except in special cases.
5+ megapixels. If he's not cropping, he shouldn't need a huge amount, but it should retain detail on a screen even when enlarged (i.e. there should be some pixel headroom left over even above 1600x1200).
Compact Flash storage (this may exclude a number of Sony models).
Price will be considered mostly as a tiebreaker, though it should remain at least vaguely affordable (e.g. no more than $2,000 for body and lens).
Any suggestions? |
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05/16/2005 08:39:52 PM · #2 |
Your requirements initially would have led me to suggest the Panasonic Z20, but you said CF, and low noise. Otherwise, it's a great choice.
But how about this that does "almost" meet the requirements"
Rebel XT body
Sigma 18-200 lens
Total price: $1200 or thereabouts
Or you could save by going with the Sigma 18-125 (which I have and love). Sammie (see her profile on this site) has the 18-200 and the 18-125, and she says the 18-200 is as good.
Edit:
Non-SLR possibilities:
Canon s2 IS. I have the S1, and it's great, though only 3 mp. The S2 has a 12x IS zoom, 5 mpixels, swivel display. Small but not too small. But it uses SD now (the S1 uses CF).
Message edited by author 2005-05-16 20:59:19. |
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05/16/2005 09:57:03 PM · #3 |
| Maybe a bit biased, but the F828 seems to meet nearly all of those, including the requirement for compact flash. Peraps not the low noise, but most all else. |
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05/16/2005 10:10:01 PM · #4 |
He probably won't want to deal with sensor cleaning or even the complexity of changing lenses at all
Then you guys should not even consider a SLR. There are alot of prosumer cameras out there that are fantastic and will suit his needs. |
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05/16/2005 10:25:41 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by pgatt:
Maybe a bit biased, but the F828 seems to meet nearly all of those, including the requirement for compact flash. Peraps not the low noise, but most all else. |
While i was reading the thread or the initial post i thought of this camera right away... Maybe because i own a Sony F707 and liked it very much... It is a great camera so i think thath the F828 might be a even better camera... Thats just my thought.
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05/16/2005 10:28:33 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Non-SLR possibilities:
Canon s2 IS. I have the S1, and it's great, though only 3 mp. The S2 has a 12x IS zoom, 5 mpixels, swivel display. Small but not too small. But it uses SD now (the S1 uses CF). |
From your description the S1 IS would be a good match, except that it's 3MP (2048 x 1536) which I find is plenty for a quality print up to about 11 x14, doesn't take too much storage/backup room, and let me get away with buying a couple of very inexpensive 256mb CF cards -- good for about 300 shots. I chose it over 4mp models because of the slightly smaller image size.
It has both fully automatic and fully manual modes, takes great full-motion video, and uses AA batteries.
The only thing they're really bad for is action shots, panning shots, and other things which are affected by the relatively slow focus and shutter-lag.
And there's an adapter available to add on lenses or a hood if he changes his mind about that ... |
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05/16/2005 10:29:30 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Discraft:
Originally posted by pgatt:
Maybe a bit biased, but the F828 seems to meet nearly all of those, including the requirement for compact flash. Peraps not the low noise, but most all else. |
While i was reading the thread or the initial post i thought of this camera right away... Maybe because i own a Sony F707 and liked it very much... It is a great camera so i think thath the F828 might be a even better camera... Thats just my thought. |
I think I just read that the 828 has been discontinued. |
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05/16/2005 10:32:33 PM · #8 |
The Sony's are indeed nice cameras, but if considering a P&S, and you want to shoot indoors, you might want to consider one of the cameras with image stabilization, since you won't be able to shoot high ISO.
Actually, after using my S1, I fell in love with image stabilization! It makes taking indoor shots at shows or exhibitions easy (assuming your not taking sports shots). And for 200-300mm zoom equivalent, it's indispensible. (I just bought the 70-300 IS DO for my Rebel for this reason!
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05/16/2005 10:54:46 PM · #9 |
What a shame, I just sold the perfect camera for your father 20 minutes ago....
The Olympus E-10/E-20 cameras fit the bill perfectly.
a) good vibrancy and output - just look at BradP to see it's potential
b) fixed lens SLR (one of the very few SLR cameras with a fixed lens)
c) 5 megapixel (good for most prints)
d) large buttons and one of the few SLRs to have a pop-out adjustable LCD screen
e) lens on it is a f/2.0-2.4
An used E-10 can probably be had for $300 or so on ebay and an E-20 for about $450.
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05/16/2005 11:45:18 PM · #10 |
Secure Digital is actually workable. I'd prefer to go with CF so I could just give him some of my old cards, but it's not so expensive to buy a few new SDs. I really want to avoid anything else though, particularly Memory Sticks.
I'll look into the S2 IS, Olympus E-20, and the F828. The latter looks very interesting, but the reviews show that it's really, really noisy above ISO100, which isn't so good when he won't be running noise reduction software afterwards.
He'll have a chance to play with my 20D this June, so I may be able to nudge him into going the full DSLR+editing route, particularly since I know he has a fondness for wide-angle shots, and I may be able to lure him with thoughts of a 10-22 plus a 28-135 or that Sigma 17-200 that was mentioned. Thanks for the tips. Feel free to keep touting your own personal preferences, if you haven't seen them listed yet. :) |
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05/17/2005 12:01:33 AM · #11 |
I shoot a Minolta Dimage7 and it would fit everything you mentioned. The Zeiss zoom lens is excellent, the camera feels good in a man's hands and the range of in-camera adjustments are quite impressive. I get too much noise shooting above ISO200, so I don't; but I am a stickler on the issue of no noise. The onboard flash is good, but has a shoe as well. The price is very good now, since Minolta started aiming for the DSLR market with the Maxuum7D. The Dimage7's are going at very low prices for what you get. 5.25MP gets some good shots, if one wants to learn how to make this camera work for them.
edit - It also produces in RAW so many more adjustments, outside of software editing, can be made before conversion to JPEG.
Message edited by author 2005-05-17 00:04:39. |
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05/17/2005 12:02:51 AM · #12 |
Nikon 8800?
im not too knowledgeable about that camera but i think it has a lot of what you are looking for. personally i am a canon man so i guess i should push the Pro 1, but i think the nikon is good too (i think: IS, 10x optical, 8MP, not too big)
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Nikon/nikon_cp8800.asp |
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05/17/2005 01:45:01 AM · #13 |
I would also suggest the pro1 as well... 8MP, Excellent shots, sharp saturated colors...easy to use. Super Macro Mode is killer. I put 12K shots on mine before passing it on to the wife. If the range isn't enough theres always the TC which takes you to 300 just as sharp on the long end as the short...did we mention the Pro1 uses "L" glass...
With TC looks like...
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05/17/2005 02:07:15 AM · #14 |
| I think the Olympus E-20 may be a bit too big and heavy for your father to carry around, but he may be very satisfied with either the Olympus 5050 or 5060...or, the C-8080. Both models are highly regarded, small enough to stuff in a pocket, and produce outstanding images quality. They are not current models, but can still be gotten at very good prices. |
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