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04/29/2005 01:03:25 AM · #1 |
I ended up writing my thoughts on my entry into the DPChallenge world on my own site, then figured the people here might want to see it as well, so I'm posting here. I hope you'll forgive some of the hubris involved in a new arrival making judgements on the way DPChallenge works so quickly, but this is a good way of fixing little notes in my head. If they're not entirely accurate, they'll get corrected later, and in the mean time, I thought some people might find this educational or at least interesting. Feel free to add additional notes, as I'm still paying attention and absorbing things.
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My first entry into the DPChallenge contests was an absolute disaster, placing third from last. I ended up learning a lot more about DPChallenge and about the way my eyes work than I did about photography from it, and I learned most of that by reviewing the comments in all of the other images, rather than my own. A few people tried to be helpful in the comments on my own image, but unfortunately only told me one thing that wasn't already obvious to me. Comparing the top placing shots (and the comments on them) to lower placing shots was very educational, however.
What I submitted:
Notes on the shot itself can be found by clicking on the picture.
Basic principles learned:
[*] If a single image is the only one you looked at that evening, and you have a firm memory of what the object actually looked like, my brain will perceive things as looking a lot better than they actually are.
[*] Looking at just the thumbnail can also make the image seem better than it is.
[*] As a conclusion from the above, never, ever, submit a photo without comparing it to other good shots at the same resolution. It was painfully obvious once I had a look at it in context that it was a bad idea, but by then it was too late.
[*] As a corollary to that, if you have an alternate shot in mind, finish it as if it were going to be your final entry, even if you think up front that it won't be as good. If I had bothered to actually crop and finish my alternate idea, I would have seen at once that the technical quality of the first was too far to enter, and would have gone with the second. Oddly, that one might actually have done well; see below.
[*] There appears to be no way to remove an embarassing shot from your portfolio. It may drop off the bottom after a few months of contests if you participate every week.
[*] It's actually somewhat difficult to follow the Basic Editing rules if you've gotten used to a variety of image editing tools. You find yourself reaching for something illegal out of habit. Review your steps against an open copy of the rules before you make your submission.
Things learned about DPChallenge
[*] A sharp photo of a commonplace or even boring subject trumps a blurry photo of an interesting subject, hard.
[*] If there are obvious flaws in an image, nobody will bother commenting on anything else. You know, little things like composition, choice of subject, what the shot evokes...
[*] As a result of the above, if you have a shot that is not as good technically as some of your others, and you know already why, don't bother submitting it, since it's unlikely to draw useful commentary.
[*] A beautiful picture of something only marginally matching the challenge description trumps a merely good picture of a much closer match. As long as you don't completely violate the challenge constraints, the relation of the photo to the topic seems to be mostly irrelevant.
[*] Dramatic but unrealistic-looking shots trump realistic but ordinary shots nearly every time. Even surreal seems to be okay. This doesn't seem to apply to bad, unrealistic shots, which then get negative comments for being unrealistic that never seem to appear on better shots, even when they're surreal.
[*] Corollary to the above: commenters apparently sometimes can't tell what's realistic and what isn't.
[*] Size matters. Anything that doesn't come very close to the maximum size in at least one dimension gets hammered, even if it's well within the upper bounds of the size limit. My entry was 530 out of 640 pixels across, and still got noted for this, which was the one thing I did learn from my comments.
[*] The voters seem to like landscapes and water.
With the above in mind, I really should have entered my alternate shot:
This is actually similar in choice of subject matter to the winning entries, though not as dramatic. I discarded this idea originally for not being sufficiently unique or interesting. Bad mistake on my part.
Lessons learned about digital photography and editing
[*] Be very careful of anything that might be a distraction in the background. Even if your subject draws your own eye, other eyes, not seeing the concept in your head, will be bothered by anything potentially distracting.
[*] A resize of a larger crop to a smaller size seems to end up clearer than just a smaller crop. I'm not sure why this is, as it seems very counterintuitive. It's possible this isn't really true, and it's just my particular test images.
I've actually learned some additional things already from my Minimalism entry, but since that contest isn't over yet, I'll save them for another day. |
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04/29/2005 01:12:40 AM · #2 |
Hey Zed. Just scanned through this briefly. Sounds like you did learn some things and looking at what you posted, it appears to be helpful to others. Thanks for that.
Regarding your alternate image - yes, better than the first, but as you said not as dramatic as the winners.
Keep it up and thanks for sharing your insights.
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04/30/2005 12:42:00 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
-----[*] Looking at just the thumbnail can also make the image seem better than it is. |
Or worse, thumbnails are good only as a reference point. They are not for rating an image, although some people do not share that opinion, so unfortunately, they do seem to get used that way.
A thumbnail rarely makes a good image appear better, but can easily make a bad image appear good.
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
[*] As a conclusion from the above, never, ever, submit a photo without comparing it to other good shots at the same resolution. It was painfully obvious once I had a look at it in context that it was a bad idea, but by then it was too late. |
Sh_ _ happenens, my first submission was reportedly “soft”. I did not sharpen the image as is necessary to display details crisply in the submissions (by comparison to other submissions). Mostly, my work goes to print and is primarily shot on film.
Digital images are inherantly soft, and when displayed against sharpened images on the dpc site, unless you sharpen, dpc veiwers “believe” the image is out of focus, even if it isn’t; that is called “conditioning” in psyco-babble.
That doesn’t take into concideration all the different monitors; high & low quality and calibration, or lack there of, that are on use on dpc.
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
[*] As a corollary to that, if you have an alternate shot in mind, finish it as if it were going to be your final entry, even if you think up front that it won't be as good. If I had bothered to actually crop and finish my alternate idea, I would have seen at once that the technical quality of the first was too far to enter, and would have gone with the second. Oddly, that one might actually have done well; see below. |
Never hurts to have a back up. How well the other shot would have done would depend largely on the post processing.
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
[*] There appears to be no way to remove an embarrassing shot from your portfolio. It may drop off the bottom after a few months of contests if you participate every week. |
You’re pretty much stuck with having the image hanging out in your portfolio destroying your self-esteem.
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
[*] It's actually somewhat difficult to follow the [Basic Editing rules if you've gotten used to a variety of image editing tools. You find yourself reaching for something illegal out of habit. Review your steps against an open copy of the rules before you make your submission. |
Adjustment layers are “a good thing”. Not only do they document the steps you have taken for future reference, but also they are editable and will help keep you within the rules. Of course, the use of usm is another matter. Not being editable, but well within the rules when applied to the entire image.
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
Things learned about dpchallenge
[*] A sharp photo of a commonplace or even boring subject trumps a blurry photo of an interesting subject, hard. |
GOES WITHOUT SAYINGâ€Â¦
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
[*] If there are obvious flaws in an image, nobody will bother commenting on anything else. You know, little things like composition, choice of subject, what the shot evokes... |
If there are obvious flaws in the image, there would be no reason to submit it unless you want to hear all about the flaws that are in it, because “commenters” are not professional judges, but other participants and site users. They rate according to their expertise, which may be great or very limited. They may see an issue and not know how to fix it, or feel odd telling you what they think you may already know especially if they think you may know more than they do. Composition, choice of subject, or what the shot evoked are all good ethical criteria for rating submissions.
You commented on one of my images and offered no constructive advice on how you feel I might have done better, but blasted the h_ _ _ out of it, and quite rudely too. (Rememberingâ€Â¦ IMO (in my opinion) is a given on comments.) You did NOT mention composition, choice of subject, or what the shot evoked, but I would be quite receptive if you did. Happily, your opinion was not shared by others.
*If nothing else, we may learn what not to do.
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
[*] As a result of the above, if you have a shot that is not as good technically as some of your others, and you know already why, don't bother submitting it, since it's unlikely to draw useful commentary. |
If you want technical addvice, you can offer your image up through the threads. Dpc’ers are great at giving a helping hand. You usually end up with more info than you want. You can also offer up your image to the critique club, it may take a milenia to get a response.
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
[*] A beautiful picture of something only marginally matching the challenge description trumps a merely good picture of a much closer match. As long as you don't completely violate the challenge constraints, the relation of the photo to the topic seems to be mostly irrelevant. |
The challenge “name” may or may not have much correlation with the challenge discription. Some people don’t even read the discription, some go only by the limited_open to interpetation_discription, and some try to interpet the discription and the name together. Regardless, everyone has their own interpetation of the challenge, which, again, may be influenced by their expertise, or lack of.
Voters vote by the narrow focus of their interpetation, but hopefully with concideration of the “authors” interpetation of the challenge.
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
[*] Dramatic but unrealistic-looking shots trump realistic but ordinary shots nearly every time. Even surreal seems to be okay. This doesn't seem to apply to bad, unrealistic shots, which then get negative comments for being unrealistic that never seem to appear on better shots, even when they're surreal. |
Drama trumps realism every time. I don’t know if realism is a dpc thing. We have so much of it in the “real world” do we want it in the virtual one?
When displayed against sharpened, color saturated images on the dpc site, if you don’t sharpen, and color enhance, veiwers will “believe” the image is out of focus, or blurry, and improperly exposed, even if it isn’t, due to the “conditioning” factor.
There is little room for reality in competitions.
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
[*] Corollary to the above: commenters apparently sometimes can't tell what's realistic and what isn't. |
They could if they wanted to, but they don’t want to, and they don’t have to because realism is not a criteria here. And remember the “condition” they are in.
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
[*] Size matters. Anything that doesn't come very close to the maximum size in at least one dimension gets hammered, even if it's well within the upper bounds of the size limit. My entry was 530 out of 640 pixels across, and still got noted for this, which was the one thing I did learn from my comments. |
The max size is plenty small enough. Interestingly, an odd size can mean it is a small edited portion of a much larger image. I don’t think that’s against the rules, but. Images that are smaller than the max size are harder to veiw. The images are small enough at 640 and with hundreds and hundreds of images to look at in a week, eye strain aside, voters aren’t gonna spend extra time on a small image.
An excellent tutorial on preparing your image for dpc challenge exists in the dpc tutorials.
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:
[*] The voters seem to like landscapes and water.
With the above in mind, I really should have entered my alternate shot:
This is actually similar in choice of subject matter to the winning entries, though not as dramatic. I discarded this idea originally for not being sufficiently unique or interesting. Bad mistake on my part. |
Post editing is everything. Its not the choice of subject matter, it’s the presentation that makes the difference. It starts with set up for the shot, and ends with post processsing the image. On dpc, post editing the image is key.
There are some awesome images on dpc. The winners generally rise above the crowd through image making as well as post processing. Many of them have doing it for long enough to learn a few things. Some of them are new to the photography world.
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04/30/2005 02:10:17 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by sofapez:
You commented on one of my images and offered no constructive advice on how you feel I might have done better, but blasted the h_ _ _ out of it, and quite rudely too. (Rememberingâ€Â¦ IMO (in my opinion) is a given on comments.) You did NOT mention composition, choice of subject, or what the shot evoked, but I would be quite receptive if you did. Happily, your opinion was not shared by others. |
Must have been in the Minimalism challenge, since I didn't comment on any of your other shots that I can see. You can go through my comments as you like and make your own judgement, but I've generally tried to be specific about what I liked or disliked, and have generally been found helpful for it. I'm sorry you felt I was rude; that certainly wasn't the intent, though possibly I shouldn't comment on photos late at night in my insomnia phases, since I admittedly get terser as I get more tired.
Once the judging is ended, if you want me to go back and be more detailed, let me know what the image is and I'd be happy to. |
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