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04/26/2005 06:29:52 AM · #1 |
Sheesh, this is an email I received recently from a disgruntled DPCer... I presumably left them a comment in a current challenge.
'I just want you to know you were the only one to put my photo down thanks'
And my reply... lots of people should take note of this advice:
'Why do you want me to know that? Grow up!
I don't know which photo is yours, but it's hard to get better from bland positive praise, I hope I gave you good constructive criticism. Leave your ego at the door.
Bob' |
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04/26/2005 07:01:15 AM · #2 |
Lots of people with funny reactions in this world.
I wouldn't get worked up about it - that will shorten your lifespan, not theirs. |
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04/26/2005 07:05:02 AM · #3 |
| Ah, but if you get angry enough about it you might kill or maim a couple of them, thus making the world a better place. |
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04/26/2005 07:09:13 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by zarniwoop:
Ah, but if you get angry enough about it you might kill or maim a couple of them, thus making the world a better place. |
or at least have a unique photo oppertunity.
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04/26/2005 07:10:17 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Sheesh, this is an email I received recently from a disgruntled DPCer... I presumably left them a comment in a current challenge.
'I just want you to know you were the only one to put my photo down thanks'
And my reply... lots of people should take note of this advice:
'Why do you want me to know that? Grow up!
I don't know which photo is yours, but it's hard to get better from bland positive praise, I hope I gave you good constructive criticism. Leave your ego at the door.
Bob' |
I would have replied "I can't cook and sometimes I pee when I laugh. Thanks for the comment"
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04/26/2005 07:12:51 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by notonline:
I would have replied "I can't cook and sometimes I pee when I laugh. Thanks for the comment" |
LOL remind me not to make you laugh |
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04/26/2005 07:17:54 AM · #7 |
Bobster, You've always left me accurate and concise comments, and its helped. Its preferreable to the comments that have no value (nice shot), or the crap filled twinkies where you have to sort through the mess to find the meaning. If I get upset I can always go to rugby practice and thump somebody. Great for stress management. Keep on commenting.
scrum8 |
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04/26/2005 07:23:48 AM · #8 |
| LOL! I would consider it an honor when someone such as bobsterlobster himself comments on a photo. He did on an entry I recently bombed on, and I felt ALL my comments were intended to help me improve. Everyone commented so tactfully, not maliciously, and I appreciate that. I could never turn on another DPCer! |
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04/26/2005 08:01:06 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Sheesh, this is an email I received recently from a disgruntled DPCer... I presumably left them a comment in a current challenge.
'I just want you to know you were the only one to put my photo down thanks'
And my reply... lots of people should take note of this advice:
'Why do you want me to know that? Grow up!
I don't know which photo is yours, but it's hard to get better from bland positive praise, I hope I gave you good constructive criticism. Leave your ego at the door.
Bob' |
It's funny but to tell the truth (and mind you I don't care nor am I upset with your comment) out of 19 comments I received and at least 4 have said they gave me a 10, yours was the only negitive comment. Now like I said I am not upset with your comment and I found it usefull. After all I am almost 50 years old and have been a photographer for almost as long as you have been on this earth (-: but, my only concern is that your comment criticized only one small part of the photo. I agree that you should not give "bland positive praise" but, a truly helpful comment should contain both positive and negitive input. Just my two cents and I hope that like your comment to me you find this comment helpful to you. BTW, I took a look at your profile and you have some nice stuff there. Keep up the good work.
Message edited by author 2005-04-26 08:05:36.
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04/26/2005 08:07:07 AM · #10 |
well it is only human nature to get upset over someone putting somthing we made or love down..... you'll both get over it and you'll both learn from it ...
such is life....!
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04/26/2005 09:20:08 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by roadrunner:
well it is only human nature to get upset over someone putting somthing we made or love down..... you'll both get over it and you'll both learn from it ...
such is life....! |
True what you say about human nature and no doubt they will get over it but, learn from it! That is yet to be seen. The reason for this site is to post your photos and get input to make you a better photographer. Just like our children, If all there life we tell them "No this is wrong", "You are bad" "No no no no no no" and never tell them the good they have done how do you think they will turn out in the future? Negitive reinforcment does not produce positive output and the same goes here.
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04/26/2005 09:25:41 AM · #12 |
speaking of checking your ego at the door...doesn't starting this thread to whine about that person's whining just smack of irony?
having just read through many of your comments, I can easily see where you would come off as arrogant. Granted some of them are very accurate and what I would call helpful, while others I didn't find to be constructive, or even 'critiques' as such. Many were just simple criticisms about your opinion on their post processing or cropping or subject matter, and as Tom said, with little positive to back it up.
As an educator I'd think you'd be more aware of the importance of establishing credibility with your audience. If you don't earn their respect by showing them some respect first...it will likely fall on deaf ears.
Far be it from me to discourage a prolific commentor; please keep making comments. However, in my opinion, threads like this serve no purpose.
Regards,
Pedro |
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04/26/2005 09:34:08 AM · #13 |
TomH - you have expressed one view.
Another is that it should not be necessary to include meaningless platitudes before launching into a critique. The difference between adults and children is that we should be able to accept blunt remarks without taking mortal offence: especially if they are made in a forum like this, where you (at least impliedly) request critical comments.
I tend to include positive comments along with the negative, especially where I think that too blunt a message could put someone off photography or the site - eg someone who appears to be a first time submitter (easy to spot if the image is too small, or needs a lot of work). Where the image is competent, but I have a comment, I feel less need to soften the critique.
You are ('self' admittedly) not a child. I presume that your image is competent (from your portfolio, it seems likely). You probably have several "nice" comments. Surely a critical comment, even if blunt, should be gratefully received?
Message edited by author 2005-04-26 09:34:48. |
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04/26/2005 09:34:22 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Pedro:
... However, in my opinion, threads like this serve no purpose.
Regards,
Pedro |
Just like the threads that follow competitions where someone says "I had all wonderful comments, so why'd my picture do so poorly" ... |
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04/26/2005 09:35:18 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by awpollard:
Originally posted by Pedro:
... However, in my opinion, threads like this serve no purpose.
Regards,
Pedro |
Just like the threads that follow competitions where someone says "I had all wonderful comments, so why'd my picture do so poorly" ... |
Zackly :) |
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04/26/2005 09:36:52 AM · #16 |
Unless my scores on Jewellery start improving and unless I get some real comments, I might be starting one of those...!
Originally posted by awpollard:
Just like the threads that follow competitions where someone says "I had all wonderful comments, so why'd my picture do so poorly" ... |
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04/26/2005 09:53:02 AM · #17 |
I have to say though, I find "your photo sucks, I hate the lighting and it just has nothing good about it" is a much "better" comment for me then "awww how cute".
I love hearing from people that don't like my photos, if I didn't I would be puzzeled about why it ended up with such a low score. Ofcourse saying "this is just a bad photo" without explenations is silly but I don't see why it's any worse than saying "cute" or "good"...you don't learn ANYTHING from it and well isn't that what dpc is all about? Notabene though, I love all comments no matter how useless they are just because someone took the time to look at my pic and say something about it :)
Also when I get a well written "bad" comment where it explains why the picture is bad and has no sugar coating I will feel bad for a while but work sooo much harder next time! |
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04/26/2005 10:08:29 AM · #18 |
Everyone is different. Some people want candy coating, some people pull their band-aids off in one rip. It̢۪s very hard to convey emotions and intentions through text, and a lot of misunderstanding arises as a result.
As adults we should be able to realize that any comment given here is never personal (how can it be when entries are anonymous) and is one persons opinion only. You may have spend hours, even days on your photograph and put a lot of effort and love into it. However a commenter has probably spent less then a minute on your image, including the time it took to type the comment.
A commenter has no background; they don̢۪t know your handicaps, your equipment, the setup or even the unexpected effort you may have had to put in to get that picture. You however do know the history and as such you should be able to weigh a comment and keep it in perspective to the much larger picture. (no pun intended)
Commenter̢۪s will occasionally face backlash from the photographer but in my opinion you should take the high road on this. Remember people who react badly to your comments are reacting emotionally because they love their photo and now they feel it has been under valued. Show some compassion to their emotions and just walk away, we̢۪ve all been there.
And remember this is supposed to be fun! =) |
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04/26/2005 10:49:26 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by legalbeagle:
TomH - you have expressed one view.
Another is that it should not be necessary to include meaningless platitudes before launching into a critique. The difference between adults and children is that we should be able to accept blunt remarks without taking mortal offence: especially if they are made in a forum like this, where you (at least impliedly) request critical comments.
I tend to include positive comments along with the negative, especially where I think that too blunt a message could put someone off photography or the site - eg someone who appears to be a first time submitter (easy to spot if the image is too small, or needs a lot of work). Where the image is competent, but I have a comment, I feel less need to soften the critique.
You are ('self' admittedly) not a child. I presume that your image is competent (from your portfolio, it seems likely). You probably have several "nice" comments. Surely a critical comment, even if blunt, should be gratefully received? |
Meaningless platitudes I agree on. I don't want to hear the same old dull remarks like; "Great lighting." and so on, but by the same token I don't want to hear "Bad lighting" either. What makes it bad? What makes it good? The angle? the color? If you are going to say something is good or bad then you should back it up with a reason. This along with talking about both the strong and weak points about a photo make a good critique.
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04/26/2005 11:08:24 AM · #20 |
After reading some of what's been said in this thread I think that I'd better not comment at all from now on, as clearly I'm not qualified.
To be honest I'm with Bob - I'd be insulted to receive such a PM to a comment that I have made. At the end of the day I'm spent my time making a comment on an image and I don't expect to recieve abuse for doing so!
If you don't agree with the comment then just don't mark it as helpful, if the comment does help (or makes you feel good - 'nice pic' etc) then mark it as helpful. In the case that something is very useful to you then send a PM in addition to say 'Thank You', if the comment is abusive or offensive then report it.
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04/26/2005 11:33:11 AM · #21 |
Unless there was more to the message, I don't see anything positive in telling a commenter that they were the only one to say something negative about a shot.
Constructive critcism is based on finding something less than perfect in an image, some shortcoming. Including a suggestion on how to improve the image is better than not doing so. But even if the commenter isn't knowledgable enough to tell you how to do it better, their perception of the image's flaw(s) is still valuable.
The Bobster as "arrogant" ? I wouldn't use that term myself. Direct, to the point, tells it like he sees it, would be better choices IMHO.
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04/26/2005 12:08:04 PM · #22 |
| Thanks for the replies. I know my commenting style isn't perfect, but bearing in mind I just commented on about 150 photos in one challenge, I try to make concise comments that address the points that need to be addressed and move on. We're all adults here, and if I sugar coated every criticism, I'd severely cut down on the number of comments I'd be able to get through. If I was teaching properly, I'd make sure I was very positive, encouraging and nurturing but I don't think that is necessarily called for when making comments at DPC. People can take my comments however they like, it's good for me to make comments but I also do give them with a generosity of spirit... every comment I make is intended to help in some way. There's no meanness or insecurity in my comments. I just want people to be aware that it's pointless to take criticism personally and it's counter-productive to try to prove how great you are when your ego is bruised. |
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04/26/2005 12:52:56 PM · #23 |
Actually Harvey what I said was "I could see where he would come off as arrogant". I personally can't have an opinion about Bob since I don't know him. And I certainly agree that the patitudes are useless, even if they are a nice little pat on the back.
@Colda - I didn't see anyone here suggest you need qualifications to comment. all the comments in here just seem to suggest you use some common courtesy when making your critiques.
@Bob - I tried to applaud your effort in commenting in my post. What I objected to (and continue to object to in your last comment) is the hypocrisy in your reply. Your ego seems to have been bruised by the reply, and you're fighting back with this public thread. It seems you have taken their criticism personally, and are now being counter-productive by trying to prove something (only following your line of thought from the last post).
Anyway, as I've said: I think these threads are useless. If your feelings were hurt, do as you suggest. don't take it personally and move on.
Regards,
Pedro |
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04/26/2005 01:00:14 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Pedro:
Actually Harvey what I said was "I could see where he would come off as arrogant". I personally can't have an opinion about Bob since I don't know him. And I certainly agree that the patitudes are useless, even if they are a nice little pat on the back.
@Colda - I didn't see anyone here suggest you need qualifications to comment. all the comments in here just seem to suggest you use some common courtesy when making your critiques. |
The comment was intended with a thick topping of sweet sarcasm :)
Common courtesy and respect are a paramount ingredient of the dpc community, my point is that it's better to deliver a comment than not, and that the sugar coating is secondary to the basic message.
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04/26/2005 01:09:01 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Pedro:
speaking of checking your ego at the door...doesn't starting this thread to whine about that person's whining just smack of irony? |
Amen sister. |
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