Sharpness - Can't quite make it...

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

04/15/2005 05:32:46 PM · #1

Hey everyone,

I'm been working hard to understand how to make very sharp and crisp images; especially for portraiture. But i can't seem to make it.

This picture is an exemple of what i'm trying to achieve, but i can't quite make it. I can never make my pictures crisp and sharp enought.

Is there a good solution to my problem? So far, the best i've been able to do was my pet portrait shot:

I've recently got my new gear: Canon 20D + 70-200 2.8 IS; 50mm 1.8; 18-55 3.5. But even with the 50mm, i can't seem to sharpen. what am i doing wrong?
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kirbic

Canon EOS R5

04/15/2005 05:36:41 PM · #2

Few questions:
1.) Are you shooting RAW or JPG?
2.) Camera set to default sharpening if in JPG?
3.) What RAW conversion sharpening settings do you use if RAW
4.) What settinngs are you using for USM during editing?
5.) Are you doing a final sharpening pass after resizing for the web?

Als a comment... the portrait is pretty small to judge sharpness, but it looks pretty sharp to me. Would be nice to see a larger version to judge.

kyebosh

Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L

04/15/2005 05:39:50 PM · #3

I absolutely love the first shot! That lighting is just awesome, what was the setup?

04/15/2005 05:41:34 PM · #4

Originally posted by kirbic:

Few questions:
1.) Are you shooting RAW or JPG?
RAW

3.) What RAW conversion sharpening settings do you use if RAW
Please Define 'Conversion Sharpening Settings' - In the camera, all settings are default to 0; using AdobeRGB.

4.) What settinngs are you using for USM during editing?
Define USM; i'm not familiar with the term. For sharpening, through PS CS i go in Labcolours, Unsharpen and return to RGB.

5.) Are you doing a final sharpening pass after resizing for the web?
No, i usually do my sharpening before.

Als a comment... the portrait is pretty small to judge sharpness, but it looks pretty sharp to me. Would be nice to see a larger version to judge.

Sorry i can't make the picture bigger.
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Message edited by author 2005-04-15 17:43:13.
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04/15/2005 05:46:19 PM · #5

Logan, the shot of the women is not mine, I'm trying to accomplish that; that's why i posted this thread. Sorry for the confusion
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mikasi

Tamron AF 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II for Canon

04/15/2005 05:46:56 PM · #6

As I am downloading a program right now I can't bring up your picture for a full size shot (dial up is too slow to split my bandwidth resources) so I can't see what the problem is right now. But I do have to ask How sharp does one actually want a profile shot? I've heard they ought be a bit soft in the focus.

Also, you might want to check your f stop settings.

kyebosh

Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L

04/15/2005 05:49:36 PM · #7

Oh i'm sorry I missunderstood I guess. I don't think the 2nd pic looks very unsharp though. You might try stopping the lens down to F8 or so and that will bring out more sharpness.

04/15/2005 05:51:03 PM · #8

So using a f/stop a bit lower like f5.6 or 8 will help in crispness?
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Azrifel

Fujifilm X100VI

04/15/2005 05:57:40 PM · #9

Originally posted by RedOak:

4.) What settinngs are you using for USM during editing?
Define USM; i'm not familiar with the term. For sharpening, through PS CS i go in Labcolours, Unsharpen and return to RGB.

Also depends on the output size, but see 5.)
For DPC I always end up with a radius of 0.3, treshold between 0 and 2 with an amount of 100 to 200%. For printing I use anything between .9 and 5 radius with a variety of settings for amount and treshold.

Originally posted by RedOak:

5.) Are you doing a final sharpening pass after resizing for the web?
No, i usually do my sharpening before.

The best is to use the the small radius sharpening AFTER resizing for the web.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/15/2005 06:25:17 PM · #10

Here Sander, i did what you mentionned and it seemed to help (worked on the cat shot).

edit: Changed the imagine with a comparative.

Message edited by author 2005-04-15 18:31:14.
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wewillexplore

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

04/15/2005 06:29:46 PM · #11

You need more light than f3.5 1/15 on ISO 100 to do this. Try ISO 400 on the 20D and you'll get 1/60. Bet that helps.

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

04/15/2005 06:32:40 PM · #12

Mav, indeed, with a F/stop of 5.6 and a ISO 400, it might help i bit it seems.

So basically, an fstop of 1.8 is not a good idea then? I though this was a good idea for portraits (?!) I'm a bit confused...
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kirbic

Canon EOS R5

04/15/2005 06:44:20 PM · #13

OK, after reading your responses, a couple pointers:
- Your RAW converter probably is applying some sharpening by default, that's why I asked. You might want to turn this off if you can
- You can do a first-pass sharpening of the image early in the editing, or if the image is destined for the web only, you can wait until it's resized and sharpen then
- As Sander posted, a small radius seems to be appropriate for sharpening for the web, I also use a 0.3 radius on most of my post-edit sharpening. I find that two passes at a lower amount sometimes gives better results
- With regard the the f/1.8 aperture, it's good if the effect is what you want. you will have a very narrow DoF, and that may cause more of the pic to be unsharp than what you would have liked. experiment with various apertures to see what suits your tastes.
- For shutter speed, try to keep at or abive the "1 over focal length rule." That is, if you have a 50mm lens on, shoot at 1/50 or faster.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6G

04/15/2005 06:51:49 PM · #14

What kind of lighting is most recommended then? I'm a bit confused about that as well. I do not own any lighting equipment at this moment, so when possible, i use natural lighting through a window, else its a 100w bulb lamp (or 2 if possible). In the case of my cat (pet portrait) it was a single 100w bulb as it gave better results then 2.

I've been studying Kevyn Howard's work as well, his portraits are stunning. And he usually uses only natural light...

//www.headshot-photography.com/index.htm
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Message edited by author 2005-04-15 18:53:09.
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AJFI

Nikon Coolpix 5700

04/15/2005 06:53:57 PM · #15

I think the photo you say in un-sharp, is very warm. I love it. It has a soft appeal for me.

jensmustang

Canon PowerShot S2 IS

04/15/2005 06:54:09 PM · #16

A beautiful woman and I love the b&w.

wewillexplore

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/15/2005 08:45:11 PM · #17

I know that quite a few pros shoot their portraits on F8 if they want the whole subject to be sharp but the bg to be out of focus. At least that's what I'm learning from guys like Larry Peters - he's a pretty big hs senior photographer.

M

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/15/2005 11:43:36 PM · #18

I personally like then the body slowly falls out of focus, so i think a 5.6 is my best bet.

I'll look into this.
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dsidwell

Canon EOS-5D

04/16/2005 12:13:41 AM · #19

Sharpness can be an illusion. Sharpening tools in the digital darkroom create contrasting lines around any defined pixel or set of similar pixels. A large pixel radius will create a very large line, while a smaller radius will create smaller ones. The goal is to get the lines to define an object without drawing attention to the fact that they are lines. So rather than an image becoming sharper, you're really adding information to the image to give the ILLUSION of sharpness.

From the camera, sufficient light will always help in, first, creating less noise, so a sharper image is possible because there will be fewer odd pixels (noise) floating around that will also get sharper as you sharpen your subject.

Your aperture can also help to make things sharp, but aperture in and of itself doesn't do much for sharpening, in my opinion, because aperture can affect and be affected by so many other things, such as distance from your subject, shutter speed (longer shutter speeds will create noise and your image will be less sharpen-able). Certainly, more is in focus with a smaller aperture of, say, f8, but I'm not convinced that aperture can affect sharpness all that much.

So your best bet, in my limited experience, is simply to provide enough light so you can get the photo you want. Then you can fiddle around with unsharp mask and other tools to callibrate that sharpness even further.

The 20D is a great camera, make sure you have good glass, and that will help you a lot, too!

Of course, I actually have no idea what I'm talking about...