DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register) 
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Studio lighting - need some advice
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 10 of 10, (reverse)
AuthorThread
 04/12/2005 03:27:45 PM · #1
Well, that's it. I'm tired of taking indoor shots and bitching about bad lighting.

With this in mind, I am looking for suggestions on basic studio lighting equipment. I'm looking for a two-light setup with stands and umbrellas. I really don't know what route I want to take: a setup with Canon speedlites (550 EX, 420 EX and ST-E2 transmitter) or a setup with flash strobes running off 110 volts. Nothing too fancy or too expensive. Just something that's easy to use for an amateur like me who'll be using a Canon 300D for quite a while still.

I also need some advice of what to look for, what to avoid, what colour umbrellas to use, etc. Any leads to resource sites or books would be greatly appreciated.

Also, don't be shy to link me to web sites (ebay, B&H, others) that offer good beginner lighting packages.

Thanks
 04/12/2005 03:34:31 PM · #2
Like you won't get a ton of these comments.

I like AlienBees as a place to start.

Their DigiBee offering. 2 lights with stands and umbrellas for $599 (USD).

Personally I like softboxes and grids better but lord knows you'll have time to add to your collection later and the umbrellas will be a good starting place.

Kev

04/12/2005 04:16:52 PM · #3
Kevin has given you some good info.
A 'shoot thru umbrella' in place of a regular one until you can afford a softbox.
you'll need a hot shoe to PC adapter, about $9 at most any camera store. The one Bee will be triggered by that and the second set on optical slave.

AB 800s are the best all around bet, or maybe one 800 and one 400.

A couple of 550's and an STE-2 will cost more and do less. the only advantage to that is it can be all TTL metered. with all studio strobes you'll need to run teh camera in manual mode and adjsut your settings for exposre via changes in aperture (or light output).

Get a flash meter - $120-$600 depeding on features, etc. not cheap, but once you have the lights you'll want one.

You definitely want STROBES, not continous lighting. the Bees have modeling lights so you can see what effect the strobes will have w/ shadows and such.
 04/12/2005 05:10:45 PM · #4
I haven't found a good reason to get a light meter. I have my Rebel set to show info immediately after taking so I can judge by the histogram. All you have to do is take a test shot or two and adjust the lights or aperture depending on the exposure. Much easier than switching the cord, fumbling with the meter, remembering to plug it back into the camera (have lost many shots that way...).

Message edited by author 2005-04-12 17:12:34.
 04/12/2005 06:33:07 PM · #5
Originally posted by Plexxoid:
I haven't found a good reason to get a light meter. I have my Rebel set to show info immediately after taking so I can judge by the histogram. All you have to do is take a test shot or two and adjust the lights or aperture depending on the exposure. Much easier than switching the cord, fumbling with the meter, remembering to plug it back into the camera (have lost many shots that way...).


I have to diasgree with you there on the light meter issue, sorry.

Firstly, with most studio strobes you can fire them optically, so no need for plugging/unplugging a cable at all. When taking readings I fire mine with an ST-E2, but you could also do so remotely with an old flash unit.

Secondly, I don't find the LCD screen gives enough detail to really be able to assess a shot. Sure it is good and really helps, but it is not something I would want to rely on too strongly.

And thirdly, the bigger issue ..... If I do a nice high contrast B&W I might want to deliberately get a 2 or 3 stop contrast across the model. For colour I might look for 1 stop. Or I might want to burn out a white background by 3 stops, but expose the subject perfectly. Without a light meter that sort of thing becomes hit and miss. With a light meter I can get that right and when I take the first shot it will be exposed exactly the way I intend ..... with a hell of a lot less stuffing around with a meter than there would be trying to do all that with the camera. The 300D as it lacks a true spot meter won;t allow you that level of precision on your lighting.

Ok, assuming just photographer, as if you have an assistant it gets easier for either method, and model who can't assist ... to make it all the trickiest environment.

Set up the shot and ....

1) Light meter method (assuming just photo: Fire the lights from up front, check meter reading, adjust lights, etc etc etc. Get it right, go to camera and take the shot.

2) Camera method: Take shot, check histogram etc, make adjustments to exposure, possibly several times, checking histogram each time (and remembering to delete failed shots, or having to do so later). In amongst that also ajust the lighting to get the "look" you want, but remembering if you make a lighting change you need to go through the camera route again.

I honestly see the light meter method as a LOT less stuffing around, to an order of magnitude than stuffing around with a PC Sync lead, which you can avoid easily enough anyway, and also you get far more control with the meter.

I think your method is great, a very good way to avoid the cost of a meter, but I don't see it as being less stuffing around or being able to get the same results for complicated shots.
04/13/2005 12:50:53 AM · #6
Just thought I'd second Natators Comments...

I've been self-teaching myself studio lighting/technique and I started out using the histogram on the cam to sort out exposure for some manual flashes/strobes.

_if_ the scene you are photographing has pretty even colour/tones and no large dark or white areas the histogram will give you an OK exposure.

But if you have or want high contrast images, or there is a large dark or light area the histogram can almost be meaningless.

Because the LCD on most cams reduces the contrast to increase detail it would 'lie' about important areas of portraits such as skin tone and shadow detail. I'd get a balanced histogram, and the preview would look OK, but then on reviewing the images on a normal screen the skintones would be dull, or the shadows would be too deep..

The very first photo I took using a flash meter (A sekonic flashmate 308) was a revelation. The histogram didn't look that flash, but the skin tones and dark areas were bang on...

As always, my 2c worth...
 04/13/2005 02:50:31 AM · #7
My thoughts:

Get 1 light to start out with and learn what it can and can't do. The Alienbees are great for the price. For accessories, I'd get a stand (obviously), an umbrella or brolly box, and a reflector.

If all you want to do is get the exposure right, the histogram on your camera is fine. If you want to start measuring light ratios from your sources (how much light is coming from key, how much reflected, how much on background, how much on hair, etc) then invest in a lightmeter. It's the most accurate way of determining your ratios.
 04/13/2005 09:40:16 AM · #8
Originally posted by Natator:
Firstly, with most studio strobes you can fire them optically, so no need for plugging/unplugging a cable at all. When taking readings I fire mine with an ST-E2, but you could also do so remotely with an old flash unit.

I don't believe an Aliebees flash unit will fire if a cable is plugged in, and I'm not going to use my on camera flash or 420EX as it will mess with the results and uses up batteries.

Originally posted by Natator:
Secondly, I don't find the LCD screen gives enough detail to really be able to assess a shot. Sure it is good and really helps, but it is not something I would want to rely on too strongly.

it has an accurate histogram, and will tell me if something is blown out. I can also make a fair judgement of lighting ratios and transitions.

Originally posted by Natator:
And thirdly, the bigger issue ..... If I do a nice high contrast B&W I might want to deliberately get a 2 or 3 stop contrast across the model. For colour I might look for 1 stop. Or I might want to burn out a white background by 3 stops, but expose the subject perfectly. Without a light meter that sort of thing becomes hit and miss. With a light meter I can get that right and when I take the first shot it will be exposed exactly the way I intend ..... with a hell of a lot less stuffing around with a meter than there would be trying to do all that with the camera. The 300D as it lacks a true spot meter won;t allow you that level of precision on your lighting.

is there a difference between blown out and blown out by 3 stops?

Originally posted by Natator:
Ok, assuming just photographer, as if you have an assistant it gets easier for either method, and model who can't assist ... to make it all the trickiest environment.
Set up the shot and ....
1) Light meter method (assuming just photo: Fire the lights from up front, check meter reading, adjust lights, etc etc etc. Get it right, go to camera and take the shot.

I take a quick guess based on light power, distance, and subject matter and fire a test shot. Judge from the histogram if it's blown out, take a look at the picture on the LCD and see how I like the lighting ratio. Can't do that with a meter in a single reading. You̢۪d have to take several and even then it would just tell you a number.

Originally posted by Natator:
2) Camera method: Take shot, check histogram etc, make adjustments to exposure, possibly several times, checking histogram each time (and remembering to delete failed shots, or having to do so later). In amongst that also ajust the lighting to get the "look" you want, but remembering if you make a lighting change you need to go through the camera route again.

I just guess the aperture (which I'm pretty good at), fire a test shot, check out the histogram (which, I̢۪ll remind you, shows up immediately after taking) and make sure nothing important is blown out, adjust aperture/lighting accordingly. Fire another test shot just to make sure. I've never had trouble nailing exposure, and I've never had to do more than 3 test shots. You make it sound like a hassle.

Originally posted by Natator:
I honestly see the light meter method as a LOT less stuffing around, to an order of magnitude than stuffing around with a PC Sync lead, which you can avoid easily enough anyway, and also you get far more control with the meter.
I think your method is great, a very good way to avoid the cost of a meter, but I don't see it as being less stuffing around or being able to get the same results for complicated shots.

I don't see the logic in buying an expensive light meter when it doesn't help me do anything I can't do without it. The only gadget I want to mess with is my camera.

I don̢۪t mean to sound disrespectful of you, I just do things differently and don̢۪t see how doing it your way would make anything easier or help me take better photos.
04/13/2005 10:10:09 AM · #9
I work as a set lignting tech here in hollywood.

if you go for the flash, or the strobe you will need a light meter, period. Hot lights, and flash are two differant animals and because of this you want to make sure your flash is correct so that you are not wasting yours, or especially, you clients time.

first of all. you need to make sure to shop around for the exact lights you need. actually sit down and decide what you are after, what your budget is, and if your going for the studio look, where will you store the light. beleive me when I say lighting equipment will take up space even after folded up.

second, I recently pruchased some lights off of ebay. I love ebay. don't just shop the internet either. in your city, where ever that is, I will bet you that there is a motion picture lighting house. before purchasing anything, ask them is they have the lights you are after. if they do, tell them that you are a up an comming film maker and see if they will give you to use, or rent you at a discount the lights you want. this way you will get a better idea of the lights you need. the beauty of this is that film rental houses are always looking for that next client to keep comming back for more business. up and commers are the next wave of clientel.

third, Home Depot is the poor mans lighting source. Go there for lights that will work just as good as the pro lights I work with. Ok, you won't find HMI's, or Zenon, or tungsten over 150watts, but what you will find is everything else.

Last, in the biz every one is trying to reinvent the wheel. Lighting is no differant. What is used alot is a simple $7 oriental paper balloon. Youv'e seen them. we call them china balls. they come in 3 distinct sizes. its a great source for light because they are cheap, light weight, and the paper on the ball is a diffuser so the light is soft.
there are some engineering challenges such as keeping the globe from moving inside of the ball, mounting the ball, and capping the open holes on the bottom and top to keep light from leaking.

if you want more info on how to build your own soft box, or any other lighting related questions, please ask.

Message edited by author 2005-04-13 10:18:45.
 04/14/2005 12:06:13 AM · #10
Originally posted by Plexxoid:
You make it sound like a hassle.


I thought one of your original points was that your system was less hassle than switching the cord etc. Sure, your system is not a huge hassle, but it certainly involves a lot more hassle than the system with the light metering.

Your system probably works for you. However, you are using terms such as making a "fair judgement call", and "guess the aperture". To me that is a) a lot more hassle, which you were trying to avoid, and b) has introduced a lot more variables you have to guess at before you get it right.

If the only gadget you want to play with is your camera, then would you be playing with studio flash anyway? If you are, then what's the issue with also playing with a light meter as well?

Cost can be an issue sure, and then I think the system you are using works great. But it most certainly is not a better system in terms of results or effort.

You do not believe a light meter would make things any easier at all, or improve your photos .... with those points in mind if that were the case would professionals waste their time with meters? I don't know of any studio professionals who won't use a light meter and one would assume they know what they are doing.

Pages:  
Current Server Time: 09/16/2025 04:14:48 PM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 09/16/2025 04:14:48 PM EDT.