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04/07/2003 04:23:42 PM · #26 |
Not harsh words, just a fact AT this time. Remember the Bell curve my friends.
Message edited by author 2003-04-07 16:27:21.
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04/07/2003 04:26:47 PM · #27 |
| What abotu the bell curve? |
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04/07/2003 04:41:08 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by dadas115:
What abotu the bell curve? |
Actually the bell curve is pretty "right on" for this picture. It clearly leans away from 5 (middle), toward the lower end of the scale. If anything, I'm surprised at the 9's (two) that someone scored. Those are the votes that are out of place.
BTW, I also like the picture (color and subject, focus, etc.) but I was also looking for something more symetrical. My score for this pic was right at the very "top" of the bell curve (not on either end of it).
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04/07/2003 04:42:43 PM · #29 |
The bell curve is only kind of true in the context here. My voting does tend to have a bell shape, with the largest rise at about the 6.5 mark or so.
For those of you interested: there are three ways of assessing (or "grading" as we in education say it!):
1. Standards-based assessment: you match the artifact in question against certain standards that exist. Brain surgeons, for instance, need this type of assessment to make sure they can do it just right.
2. Student-Student assessment: you match the artifact in question against other artifacts from the same group, which can create a bell curve as there will usually be an average which gives the bell its graphic rise. I don't see the need for this type of grading in education (or here) though I do it a lot when I cast and direct a play.
3. Ipsative assessment: you compare an artifact against an earlier artifact from the same person. In other words, you assess work done by someone against their own, previous work and look for improvement. This is how most of my theatre classes are graded here at the university.
Here at DPC, we cannot grade ipsatively, since we do not know who submitted the photo. However, I can look at my own work over time and assess myself ipsatively, which is very useful.
I feel no need, myself, to compare photos against each other, since we are not "ranking" them. Rather, each photo stands on its own merits, and we give scores based on those merits.
Standards-based assessment is what we do here, though because photography is (thankfully) an art form, those standards are subjective to each person voting, so there is a wide range of what is an acceptaable "standard." Perhaps it would be good to have more guidelines as to what makes a good photo, but that could be bad, too. I use Goethe's three principles:
1. What was the artist trying to do?
2. Was it done well?
3. Was it worth doing?
General enough, but it makes me look carefully at the photo. I have given high scores to photos I did not like, for instance, because the photographer was clear in his/her communication, technically proficient, and the photo made a statement or created a feeling that I felt contributed to the world in some way, making it worthwhile.
Sorry for pontificating. I'm on my lunch break!
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04/07/2003 04:46:36 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Not harsh words, just a fact AT this time. Remember the Bell curve my friends. |
It sounds to me that you are saying that, when the results of this past vote come in, my average will still be low. Is that correct? Not very understanding of you.
The Bell Curve? The center of the bell curve doesn't necessarily rest at 50%.
Challenge: Time
Details: Photograph the subject of `Time` as best you can. Good luck.
Submissions: 210
Highest Score: 6.876
Lowest Score: 2.239
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04/07/2003 05:02:34 PM · #31 |
I do find it a bit upseting that a photograph would be credited with a 1 just beause the relation with the assignment is nor obvious, witch would tend to say that the reflexion, planning, interpretation is more important than the photograph itself.
In this regard I can't resist bringing up my symetry post here It is conform to challenge requisits (I hope), in focus, natural lighting a little hard on one zone but otherwise rather attractive, it has two levels of symetry proposed (the tilling and the containers) and is composed rather harmoniously in my opinion but, i must admit, it sure is not glamorous. 43 critiques scored it 1 to 3. is it because of its "common look" or because it appeared not to be conform to the assignment?
Message edited by author 2003-04-07 17:03:38. |
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04/07/2003 05:13:10 PM · #32 |
jj,
I gave that shot a 6. I, at first did not catch the tiling, but after looking at it for a minute or so I went AH-HA! I love the lighting and shadow. I cannot see the concept of that getting ANY 1-3 votes, but maybe there are people out there with phobias to jugs, or tile, or wait....SYMMETRY!! (C:
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04/07/2003 05:51:57 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by jjbeguin:
In this regard I can't resist bringing up my symetry post here ... because it appeared not to be conform to the assignment? |
The fact that 93 people gave this photo a vote on the scale of 1-4 tells us that we have to post detailed explanation in 'photographer's comments' on how our photos relate to the challenge subject.
How so many people didn't see the symmetry in both the bottles [i]and/i] the tiles is beyond me.
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04/07/2003 05:59:59 PM · #34 |
I gave the image a 6. I could not find the symmetry either which kept it from scoring higher. For me, I liked the reflective quality of the light and the colors. I had problems with the crop at the top of the ice. It's a good idea to remember that color blind people are not going to be able to see colors in the red/green spectrum which may result in muddy brown tones for them. From my perspective, the color in this shot was a strong component. If you take away the color, the image isn't nearly as appealing.
[/url] |
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04/07/2003 08:26:33 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by HelgiPalli:
... that we have to post detailed explanation in 'photographer's comments' on how our photos relate to the challenge subject. |
Not very frisky in the headbulb tonight - the photographer's comments aren't visible to voters. Obviously. :I
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04/08/2003 02:06:37 AM · #36 |
Personally, I think an image should be judged on its own merits first, then voted higher based on how well it matches the theme.
I have voted some down for having no connection, like a black and while image in a color competition.
I voted one image in the symmetry challenge higher because it did NOT meet the challenge. It was a very technically nice shot two non-symmetric shoes. It was close enough to make make you think it is a reflection at first glance. I thought the photographers joke on the challenge was both funny and worthy of praise!
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04/08/2003 04:00:45 AM · #37 |
| I also voted the shoes very high (9). I knew it wasn't symmetrical but that was obviously the photographers intent. The Challenge wasn't to produce the most symmetrical photo but photograph based on symmetry, which I think he/she followed very well. There are others that I don't think followed at all. |
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04/08/2003 05:23:59 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by shareinnc:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
[quote=shareinnc][quote=dacrazyrn]There is nothing in the world wrong with working up an 'abstract' interpretation of the challenge theme, but the more abstract it is, the more head scratching the voters will do.
:) |
I know this *sigh* :). I'll post a version of this pic with an arrow on it in a bit (have to restart the computer because it's on the verge of a graphics crash lol).
I really do appreciate the comments folks make when they take the time. This one was just so frustrating because I know the symmetry is there, it just isn't on a quadrant axis...the axis is tilted down the center of the ice (think top right to lower left corner of the shot).
I really am interested in what ELSE might be wrong with the shot so I can improve my technique for another time.
Thanks everyone :) Sorry if I sound like I'm whining...I probably am, but I don't really mean to.
Shari |
Hi Shari,
I at least can see where you meant the symmetry to be and it's there albeit a little difficult. I'd have to say your photo didnt score highly for me on a meets the challenge criteria but I still gave it a 6. That, for me, means I felt you had a picture in mind when you took the photo and you made fair stab at getting it although there are things that could have been done better. In particular for this shot I thought the refracted light and colour through the ice was the most interesting aspect and I'd like to have seen that brought out more. That could have been done by re-shooting in a darker room with a stronger light source or even simply by tweaking the shot in photoshop to bring up the contrast and colour saturation. Some more radical options might have been to either zoom further in so we lost the context of what we were seeing or zoom out and give us some more interesting refractive objects to look at.
Sorry your photo didnt score well. Personally I think any photo that shows some effort is worthy of at least a 5. So those 1s seem overly harsh to me. But I hope you won't be put off from continuing to submit your photos to the challenges.
Regards,
John |
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