Should this be DQed? - DPChallenge Forums

04/06/2005 04:24:35 PM · #1

Hypothetical situation:
You submit to the 'Pink' challenge. Below shows your original and post-processed images.

In a discussion about cloning the suggestion was made that it is OK unless you alter the fundamental character of the original image. In that case it gets DQed. One wonders if this concept carries over into compositional element color as well.

Questions:

1-Is this image fundamentally altered from the original?

2-Should the image be DQed? If so why; if not, why not?

What do you think?

Original:

Post Processed:

gaurawa

04/06/2005 04:27:06 PM · #2

From my experience on this site, this should be legal under advanced editing and no DQ :)

saintaugust

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

04/06/2005 04:32:41 PM · #3

i don't think it should be allowed for that challenge.

it is unfair to those who actually went out and shot something pink. if you increased saturation to enhance the pink, thats fine, but for this challenge i think its cheating.

my 2 cents.

04/06/2005 04:33:52 PM · #4

Originally posted by gaurawa:

From my experience on this site, this should be legal under advanced editing and no DQ :)

If I may paraphrase...

1-Is this image fundamentally altered from the original?
NO

2-Should the image be DQed? If so why; if not, why not?
NO because it does not fundamentally altered the original image

NOTE: This effect can be accomplished under both advanced and basic rules.

04/06/2005 04:36:01 PM · #5

Originally posted by saintaugust:

If I may paraphrase...

1-Is this image fundamentally altered from the original?
It does not matter

2-Should the image be DQed? If so why; if not, why not?
YES. The challenge topic should be considered in DQs and in this case it would be cheating.

gaurawa

04/06/2005 04:38:09 PM · #6

Originally posted by saintaugust:

From your statement, looks like you cosider all hue shift as cheating ?

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

04/06/2005 04:39:49 PM · #7

I'll agree with stdavidson. In this situation, even though the editing rules were followed, the post processing was the ONLY thing that made it fit the challenge.

imo

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

04/06/2005 04:40:29 PM · #8

Definitely NOT a DQ. This is a simple color adjustment made available even in the basic editing rule-set.

If you make this an illegal adjustment, you would need to also be able to define the amount of color adjustment that would be acceptable.

If the rules in the "Pink" challenge said "no color adjustments to arrive at pink" then I would DQ the tractor.

My "Pink" entry was more orange/red nobody would have known if I decided to adjust it to a more dominating pink. I decided to be true to myself and leave it alone. But it may have scored better if I had adjusted it.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

04/06/2005 04:42:02 PM · #9

It also could be legal under "basic editing" rules.
1. In PS goto Image> Adjustments> Hue/Saturation
2. Goto Edit> Yellow
3. Adjust hue -90 and adjust brightness +40

This process was done on the complete image and did not effect any other colors. So the process was not selective so by basic rules it would be OK.

saintaugust

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

04/06/2005 04:44:22 PM · #10

hmm.. maybe I should be giving myself more of a headstart in future challenges a la photoshop...

i guess i'm alone on this one.

wewillexplore

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/06/2005 04:48:00 PM · #11

We've not had DQs for failure to meet the challenge and I would hate to see them start now.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

04/06/2005 04:50:02 PM · #12

It's legal. Not meeting the challenge is NOT grounds for DQ (Rubber Ducky was an exception). If you entered an unaltered photo of a banana for Pink, it wouldn't meet the challenge and would probably get a very low score, but that's not a valid reason to DQ it. What about a Black and White challenge? My camera only takes pictures in color, so is desaturating my entry unfair to those who actually shot in B&W? I'd have to drastically adjust the color to meet the challenge, so what's the difference?

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

04/06/2005 04:50:14 PM · #13

Originally posted by saintaugust:

hmm.. maybe I should be giving myself more of a headstart in future challenges a la photoshop...

i guess i'm alone on this one.

Maybe you are not alone. Let me explain. Even though it is possible to achieve without breaking basic and advanced editing rules I would not do this in this type of challenge. Because I believe it comes very close to breaking the "spirit of the rules". The reason I say that is the challenge wanted you to find and photograph something pink. In this photograph there was no pink and therefor IMO breaks the spirit of the rules.
Changing Hue/Saturation in a photograph to enhance it is OK but to make something pink that is not and you were to take a picture of pink, I think that's wrong.
JUST MY 2 Cents.

Edit: Still as stated by others, not meeting the challenge is not grounds for DQ.

Message edited by author 2005-04-06 16:53:07.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

04/06/2005 04:50:52 PM · #14

Originally posted by saintaugust:

hmm.. maybe I should be giving myself more of a headstart in future challenges a la photoshop...

i guess i'm alone on this one.

You're not alone. I guess I didn't clarify my position above - I vote for DQ - not because the dits themselves were illegal, but because the edits alone made the image meet the challenge.

HOWEVER - - - Having read what I just wrote and realizing the "Not meeting the challenge" is not grounds for DQ, I will reverse myself and add that the image shouldn't be DQ'd even if it was left yellow and the sky was tweaked to be bright green. :-P

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/06/2005 05:04:38 PM · #15

Originally posted by Gringo:

It should be emphasized that the issue here is not changing the hue of the image. That is not it at all.

The fundamental question is whether or not it is possible to apply a hue shift in such as way as to fundamentally alter the original in a way that could result in a DQ, much like the case of cloning out a "major element"

Message edited by author 2005-04-06 17:05:49.

alanfreed

Nikon Z9

04/06/2005 05:07:59 PM · #16

This is the kind of thing we definitely debate from time to time on Site Council.

To me, this would actually be fine, although I don't necessarily agree with taking this approach to meeting a challenge. We allow color adjustments to be made, and I don't think something should be DQ'd only on the basis that a color shift was made in order to comply with a challenge description.

I think this is a bit of a cop-out for meeting a challenge, but I personally wouldn't vote to disqualify it on those grounds. Of course, I should add the standard disclaimer here that my opinions aren't necessarily those of the SC in general :)

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

04/06/2005 05:11:46 PM · #17

Originally posted by alansfreed:

So as of current rules, it is not DQ worthy, but could suffer low scores in voting. Some images you just can't tell they have had this kind of editing done - even this one is not unrealistic. If something like this won a ribbon and it was discovered that this type of thing was done, there would be a big stink though! :)

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

04/06/2005 05:11:51 PM · #18

As in the "duck" challenge, the site admins have the ability to define the rules to the challenge just exactly the way they want them to be.

If the rule is in your head and you drop a score because of "the spirit of the rule" that is found only in your head, I find it to be an injustice to the artist and disastrous for promoting creativity of photography as an art form.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

04/06/2005 05:23:12 PM · #19

Originally posted by Gringo:

No disrespect meant here but I disagree. The details of that particular challenge was:
Details: Capture a photograph where the color pink is the primary color in the shot.

Here is the reason why IMO:
1. Did the photographer capture a picture? YES
2. Did the photographer capture a picture where the color pink was the primary color in the shot [not in the post processing]? NO
3. Did the photographer capture a picture with no pink in it an then add it via use of post processing? YES

nsmith

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

04/06/2005 05:47:02 PM · #20

Details: Capture a photograph where the color pink is the primary color in the shot.

I've always been one to read rules and interpret them strictly. Notice that the rules did not say how your subject became pink or that it was pink in its natural state, just that the color pink was to be the primary color in the SHOT. By following the rules for post processing, the pink bulldozer met the spirit and technical requirements for the contest, imho with no weight whatsoever.

04/06/2005 05:53:05 PM · #21

I think pink is a primary color in that tractor. You just can't see the pink until you remove the colors that hide it.

(for the record, I understand your point of view) I just think these issues need to be spelled out more clearly in the challenge description. If it isn't stated in the rules for the challenge, then we shouldn't discourage the artist's creativity. If the picture looks better with the alteration, then vote on it accordingly.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

04/06/2005 05:55:57 PM · #22

Originally posted by SDW65:

2. Did the photographer capture a picture where the color pink was the primary color in the shot [not in the post processing]? NO

The challenge description didn't say anything about not using post-processing. You are essentially saying the photo should be DQ'd for not meeting the challenge, which has never been a valid reason. Shifting the colors allows this image to meet the Pink challenge, just as adjusting the hues of a color image would allow it to meet a B&W challenge.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/06/2005 06:01:32 PM · #23

Here is a shot I did for the communication challenge. I don't see this any different from the edits applied to the tractor.

I felt this was a creative way to present my photograph. I tried to make it stand out from the rest of the pack and keep it within the basic rule-set.

edit: "communication challenge"

Message edited by author 2005-04-06 18:04:37.

sprite777

Nikon D700

04/06/2005 06:03:13 PM · #24

People say it wouldn't be fair to those who actually went out in search of something pink, but the voters know what's pink and what isn't. "Not fair" is not a good excuse for something to be illegal, if that's the only thing you can think of.

gaurawa