Who has ownership of the images here?

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/05/2005 10:32:46 PM · #1

Who has ownership of the images here?. This is something I have tried to fine in the terms and conditions but couldn't.

Can anyone point me in the right direction.

I was just thinking about this lately e.g. if I wanted a challenge entry removed you can't so therefore does that mean once a image is entered into a challenge the site has ownership of that image?.

Not that I want to make a fuss but I'm just a little unsure where we stand.

Joe_Cool

Canon PowerShot G6

04/05/2005 10:36:41 PM · #2

Good question!

It is my understanding that we, the photographers maintain full rights to all images, but why then don't we have control of when they are visible?

ericsuth

Canon EOS-20D

04/05/2005 10:47:41 PM · #3

I'm not fluent in legalese but see the the Terms of Use para. 6.2

"You hereby grant DPChallenge.com a nonexclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any rights you have in the Member Information and Media, and otherwise to make use of the Member Information and Media (including publishing, disseminating, broadcasting, manipulating, reproducing, editing, translating, performing, modifying, or displaying any part of the Member Information) and/or Media alone or as part of other work in any form, media, or technology whether now new known or hereafter developed, to enable DPChallenge.com to continue the specific operation or marketing of the site. This includes, but is certainly not limited to email "newsletters.""

totaldis

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/05/2005 10:58:20 PM · #4

they actually all belong to me... i've been selling them for 50cents a piece. more ribbons you have the more i make.

cry if you'd like, but you can't stop me!

ButterflySis

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/05/2005 11:01:56 PM · #5

Also, FYI, all full-size, original images turned in for verification are kept indefinitely.

Edit: Add 'original'

Message edited by author 2005-04-05 23:02:37.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/05/2005 11:30:06 PM · #6

So all images on this site including full size images for verification are owned by dpchallenge and can be used in anyway they see fit.

Is that what Terms of Use para. 6.2 is all about ?

Or am I reading this wrong ?

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

04/05/2005 11:31:32 PM · #7

Originally posted by ericsuth:

That means they can do stuff like this:

;-)

coolhar

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

04/05/2005 11:32:45 PM · #8

You do have full control over all but your challenge entries. Entries stay here, archieved, so that we may look back at the challenges. It would destroy the integrity of the database of scores, and detract from the continuity to allow people to remove entries. You may not like it but it really is better for the community as a whole for them to stay. Entering is voluntary.

That said, it would be nice for a definite retention period to be set for originals submitted for verification.

fotodude

Nikon D70

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

04/05/2005 11:47:42 PM · #9

just out of curiosity....could this be the reason John Seltzer stoped submitting to challenges?

he is 1 of my favs. here but he has not entered for awhile......

btw-i'm a little unnerved about the whole ownership thing here and may for this very reason stop submitting to challenges from here on out......

basicly as i c it u took the shot but since u entered it into the challenge it is doul proporty both yours and the sites....u have the copy wright in part and the site has the copy wright in part.......

its kinda freeky really....and i my even go and pull my submittion to the letters challenge......i mean i read the agreement and everything and i'm sure the SC isn't selling our stuff behind our backs....(right?)....but it still bothers me.

also the fact that some of my best shots are here....well only 1 really but i didn't think as hard as i should've when i clicked agree....oh well the price u pay for being 16...........

also i think i will make the letters challenge my last 1 it will be nice just to chat and gleen knowlage here in the threads........

_brando_

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

04/05/2005 11:49:07 PM · #10

Originally posted by coolhar:

To quote the site "To date, 35,916 users have submitted 57,047 photographs to 325 challenges"

Let's say 5 images from each of the 325 challenges are submitted for verification then we have 1625 full size original images kept by dpchallenge that would have a very large commercial value.

What is the need for dpchallenge to keep originals submitted for verification.

TooCool

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/05/2005 11:54:47 PM · #11

I have been here almost 2 years. I have full faith and trust in the site admins to do the right thing with our images. If they were not trustworthy, I have doubts that the site would have been around as long as it has. They woulda been found out by now...

fotodude

Nikon D70

04/05/2005 11:56:41 PM · #12

Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by coolhar:
You do have full control over all but your challenge entries. Entries stay here, archieved, so that we may look back at the challenges. It would destroy the integrity of the database of scores, and detract from the continuity to allow people to remove entries. You may not like it but it really is better for the community as a whole for them to stay. Entering is voluntary.

That said, it would be nice for a definite retention period to be set for originals submitted for verification.

To quote the site "To date, 35,916 users have submitted 57,047 photographs to 325 challenges"

Let's say 5 images from each of the 325 challenges are submitted for verification then we have 1625 full size original images kept by dpchallenge that would have a very large commercial value.

What is the need for dpchallenge to keep originals submitted for verification.

thats what it could mean if they go completly behind our backs and sell our stuff for stock we can't do anything about it.

_bran(starting to not like this)do_

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/05/2005 11:57:02 PM · #13

Frankly, I think DPC can do whatever they want with the images since they are providing and maintaining the platform, disk space, management, coming up with challenges, monitoring, etc. This is not the place to be posting your professional photos that you are trying to make money off of or don't want anyone else to have any rights to.

Of course, I am not a professional photographer, but if I were (and if my pics were worth anything), I wouldn't be spending a lot of time here unless I didn't mind giving up the rights to what I create for this site.

just my opinion.

gwphoto

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

04/06/2005 12:05:48 AM · #14

I should have read the terms closer. I sent them an email and they responded by saying that I retained ownership rights. I guess they miss spoke or didn't fully explain about the challanges. They will have no more from me. This in my opinion is an outrage.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

04/06/2005 12:10:25 AM · #15

Tempest in a Teapot. This is all what's called "boilerplate". It's more for THEIR protection against disgruntled photographers trying to haul THEM into court for spite, if you ask me. I've seen no evidence of D & L ever attempting to do anything untoward with any of these images, and if they ever DID their nice little community would collapse like a house of cards.

Robt.

fotodude

Nikon D70

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

04/06/2005 12:12:04 AM · #16

Originally posted by gwphoto:

yeah well sucks for me i clicked the unsubmit button on my shot for the Letters challenge....but it didn't send through...and so i'm in for my last challenge.....didn't really want to and since i payed the $ to be a member i might as well stickaround for the threads but that is the last image i enter..........

my ? is about the 'self' portrat challenge....that really sucks.......

_bran(i was such a fool)do_

BAMartin

Apple iPhone 5

04/06/2005 12:19:06 AM · #17

What ever gave you the idea that John does not enter here anymore??

Originally posted by fotodude:

David.C

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/06/2005 12:19:32 AM · #18

Ownership questions are answered in section 6 of the TOS. Section 6.1 stating that DPC owns all rights to DPC and subsequent services (such as DPCPrints). Section 6.2 states that although the photographer owns all information and media submitted to the site (including personal info, images, forum discussions -- anything) that by submitting the information or media the user grants DPC the right to use it in any way the owner has a right to use it.

As I understand it, there is only one thing that is unclear:

The site does not have any specific rights regarding any particular image of mine (to make this more specific), section 6.2 only grants them the rights to excercise any rights I have in the image. Granted, that is a lot of freedom, but if I sell the image -- not license it to another, but actually sell it outright. I would no longer have any rights in the image.

Would DPC still have the same right it had before -- that is, all the rights I have in the image, which I have just reduced to none? I believe this would be the case, but am not certain. It seems to me it would be along the same line of reasoning as if I owned a house and invited someone to come live there. I tell them they can come and go as they please and are to consider the house theirs. If I then sell the house the guest no longer has any right to stay there as their right to be there was an extension of my own. But I'm still not certain, as I'm not sure of the exact legal stance of the word 'perpetual' as used.

In any event I'm not worried about it in the least -- if I was I would simply place anything I wanted to submit on a different server and link to it. At that point I would have given them the rights I have to a link. ;p

David

Artyste

Sony Ericsson W810i

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Pentax

04/06/2005 12:19:44 AM · #19

Paranoid much?

coolhar

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

04/06/2005 12:21:24 AM · #20

Originally posted by fotodude:

basicly as i c it u took the shot but since u entered it into the challenge it is doul proporty both yours and the sites....u have the copy wright in part and the site has the copy wright in part.......

Read the text at the bottom of each page. The site does not claim any copyright ownership.

Originally posted by fotodude:

....oh well the price u pay for being 16...........

What does your age have to do with it?

It's kind of hard to know exactly what you are trying to say because of all your typing shortcuts and your poor grammar. Does that have anything to do with your age?

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

04/06/2005 12:32:01 AM · #21

As Coolhar points out, this is at the bottom of eevry page on the site:

DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright Â© 2001-2005 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.

The clauses being referenced in the terms of Use are there for the site's protection. They can't provide this service to us without our permission for them to "use" our images on the site. They'd be wide open, legally, if they didn't have that stuff in there. We have essentially granted them an unlimited license while retaining copyright ourselves. There's really no other way they can do it, people. If and when there is evidence of abuse, then it's time to start making noise.

Robt.

graphicfunk

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/06/2005 12:38:44 AM · #22

There are many ways to explain this. The images are yours. You have the right to sell them. The site preserves a right to use them for promotion but can not sell them without your expressed permission. In essence it is an equal ownership wherein DPC can use them for promotions but you, the photographer retain full rights.

cbeller

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

04/06/2005 12:49:42 AM · #23

Originally posted by Artyste:

Paranoid much?

No doubt!

No wonder we never see D&L much anymore. They're off traveling the world on the money they made off of selling all our 72dpi photos for millions of dollars. :-/